tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post115205380589402573..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: count/mass nouns: potato, egg, tax, sport, Legolynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52333349633463708742021-03-30T02:04:45.025+01:002021-03-30T02:04:45.025+01:00@Grhm Not an AmE thing, a Common Law thing.
Se...@Grhm Not an AmE thing, a Common Law thing. <br /><br />See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DamagesAlanzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13308324124603740714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89337076492978649702020-10-28T07:29:24.330+00:002020-10-28T07:29:24.330+00:00I thought I was being terribly clever citing my so...I thought I was being terribly clever citing my source like that, but Google has somehow neutered the link. Bah.<br />https://www.amazonfrontlines.org/extraction/oil_spill_ecuador/Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-23493622940036781402020-10-22T01:48:17.259+01:002020-10-22T01:48:17.259+01:00...For example, am I alone in finding the use of t......For example, am I alone in finding the use of the word "damages" in the following passage to be odd?<br /><i>"Your ruling in the appeal of a lower court decision to dismiss a lawsuit brought by Indigenous and human rights organizations for damages caused by Ecuador’s oil spill on April 7, 2020 will directly impact the lives of 27,000 Indigenous people living along the banks of the Coca and Napo rivers."</i><br />[<a href="www.amazonfrontlines.org/extraction/oil_spill_ecuador" rel="nofollow">Source</a>]Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27059896111766873922020-06-01T05:21:29.326+01:002020-06-01T05:21:29.326+01:00I've recently heard on TV the word "damag...I've recently heard on TV the word "damages" used as a plural to mean multiple instances of damage.<br />The first time I assumed it was an error, but it keeps cropping up.<br />I wonder if this is an AmE thing?<br />To me (Southern English, born 1964), damage is not a countable noun, and 'damages' can refer only to money paid to a victim of libel, etc.Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57572377891640049712020-01-14T17:52:27.719+00:002020-01-14T17:52:27.719+00:00"Staff" is an odd one as well. In AmE it..."Staff" is an odd one as well. In AmE it is singular but in BrE plural e.g. The staff are having a training session today. ladygeekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853093007835541999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65538444073339816072017-01-25T00:51:44.600+00:002017-01-25T00:51:44.600+00:00I would be interested to see more of these differe...I would be interested to see more of these differences catalogued. Staffs and accommodations are two more that I've come across.<br /><br />FLBasedBrit's 'A savings' is a different phenomenon, when a word with what in BrE would be a plural-marking 's' takes a singular article, so is presumably not thought of as plural in AmE. Others I have come across include 'a woods' and 'a ways' There must be others. If there is an explanation for this, Lynne, I for one would be interested.<br /><br />Harry Campbell, if you're still interested, Americans make oatmeal from the same stuff we make porridge from. Generally we wouldn't class it as 'meal' in the BrE sense of ground, since it is rolled, or maybe cut, oats. Instant oatmeal looks as though it's been ground but it hasn't really. I suspect Lynne was not familiar with the BrE meaning of 'meal' when she answered your question, though I could of course be wrong.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55744966994580047452015-10-06T18:16:57.273+01:002015-10-06T18:16:57.273+01:00Richard Gadson
the collective plural "sports...Richard Gadson<br /><br /><i>the collective plural "sports" takes (most of) the role of the BrE abstract "sport".</i><br /><br />Some, but hardly <i><b>'most'</b></i>.<br /><br />OUP <b>Oxford Dictionaries Online</b> gives distinctly different entries for <b>US English</b> and <b>British & World English</b>. The BrE version includes these two senses for UNCOUNTABLE <i>sport</i>:<br /><br />1.2 [MASS NOUN, USUALLY WITH ADJECTIVE] Success or pleasure derived from an activity such as hunting or fishing:<br /><i>'I have heard there is good sport to be had in Buttermere'</i><br /><br />1.3 [MASS NOUN] dated Entertainment; fun:<br /><i>'it was considered great sport to catch him out'</i><br /><br />and this sense for COUNTABLE PLURAL <i>sports</i><br /><br />1.1 (<b>sports</b>) <i>British</i> An occasion on which people compete in various athletic activities:<br /><i>'I won the 200 metres in the school sports'</i><br /><br />Actually I associate UNCOUNTABLE <i>sport</i> with any and all of the organised competitive games labelled <i>'sports'</i>. The COUNTABLE <i>sports</i> for me suggests an indefinite number of such games — but not necessarily all of them.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28456604655875250562015-10-06T15:18:53.544+01:002015-10-06T15:18:53.544+01:00Sport's an odd one. In BrE, there's an ab...Sport's an odd one. In BrE, there's an abstract noun "sport" relating to the concept of sport, and a count noun "sport" relating to individual events; in AmE, there's only the latter, but the collective plural "sports" takes (most of) the role of the BrE abstract "sport".<br /><br />So a sport correspondent becomes a sports writer when they cross the Atlantic.<br /><br />Richard Gadsdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10545595590359552775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36121537720735880222015-08-16T10:24:07.586+01:002015-08-16T10:24:07.586+01:00It's on the to-be-blogged about list...It's on the to-be-blogged about list...lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44433422305003607202015-08-16T05:21:19.045+01:002015-08-16T05:21:19.045+01:00Lynne,
What about "have (a) coffee" and...Lynne, <br />What about "have (a) coffee" and "have (a) latte"? Irene C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09000968524312501709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75022287397530328412014-08-04T16:57:12.293+01:002014-08-04T16:57:12.293+01:00I don't see why that would be. It's just c...I don't see why that would be. It's just creative language use.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11096934610629487682014-08-04T12:27:07.706+01:002014-08-04T12:27:07.706+01:00And whaty about your "internet wanderings&quo...And whaty about your "internet wanderings" from the post?<br />Is there any AmE/BrE difference?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57507043297767679612014-06-03T23:28:08.502+01:002014-06-03T23:28:08.502+01:00In your example of chopped tomatoes and refried be...In your example of chopped tomatoes and refried beans, perhaps they retain their plural nature because they still <b>look</b> like multiple things. Mashed potato/es look like a single substance, and scrambled egg/s, while often somewhat separated into chunks, are kind of blobby as well. But diced tomatoes still look like individual pieces of tomato; they haven't been pulverized into ketchup, and beans are often softened with sauce, but not mashed into bean paste.A Canadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-53625276389082975782013-08-13T15:22:29.753+01:002013-08-13T15:22:29.753+01:00After nearly three years in the US, I've got(t...After nearly three years in the US, I've got(ten) used to most of the plural differences, but there is one that I still can't get used to:<br /><br />"A Savings". As in "that's a savings of$20". <br /><br />Why? Savings throughout the store, fine - there's more than one, but A savingS? FLbasedBritnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25205197296509144192013-03-18T12:52:00.690+00:002013-03-18T12:52:00.690+00:00In my experience, we Canadians use sport (and seve...In my experience, we Canadians use sport (and several other words) in a strange mix of AmE and BrE.<br />I find that in several cases AmE and BrE words can be used interchangeably, such as tap & faucet in the next post: Personally I usally say and have heard used 'tap' in general speech, but it's not too uncommon to use/hear 'faucet', and they'd be labled 'faucet' at the local hardware stores. I'm sure I'll come across several other examples as I go through your blog (which I just discovered, and am amusing myself with seeing where CaE is closer to AmE and where it is closer to BrE and where it doesn't seem to care.)Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90726947028997833382011-11-21T07:38:13.579+00:002011-11-21T07:38:13.579+00:00Latest Anonymous: The 'club' difference is...Latest Anonymous: The 'club' difference is a different phenomenon, which I cover <a href="http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2007/07/collective-noun-agreement.html>in this later post</A>.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34720270325329109632011-11-21T03:53:20.491+00:002011-11-21T03:53:20.491+00:00Does "club" work differently in BrE too?...Does "club" work differently in BrE too? I would definitely say "the club has...," whereas this article about Liverpool's victory over Chelsea states: The club have won seven major trophies since then... Is it just a typo? http://www.premierleague.com/page/liverpool-football-clubAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60590934913000883802011-09-07T19:17:15.200+01:002011-09-07T19:17:15.200+01:00The cans/tins are labelled "diced tomatoes&qu...The cans/tins are labelled "diced tomatoes" in Canada.Tim Jaquesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75023510609612663612010-08-09T03:13:05.419+01:002010-08-09T03:13:05.419+01:00Yes, I spotted our Jamie there too (boy gets every...Yes, I spotted our Jamie there too (boy gets everywhere), and was also taking all those other exceptions as read -- sorry to make you be the one to spell them out! There still seemed to be one or two cases not easily explained away -- but informed native speaker intuition beats a few dregs of corpus any day. So maybe the salient question is just how widespread and perhaps new the noncount sense really is in BrE. That's not something I have a very strong feeling for, just that it's not what I'd say myself or expect to hear.Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28548837137236345962010-08-09T02:58:29.886+01:002010-08-09T02:58:29.886+01:00Just had a look at the COCA. Some of those are the...Just had a look at the COCA. Some of those are the dance and some are a rhyme for (AmE) jumping/(BrE) skipping rope to. Since these are not referring to actual mashed spuds (and I believe are influenced by African-American vernacular), they should be left out.<br /><br />Some are 'mashed potato' as an ingredient in something else. The ingredient-in-something else thing is a situation where a countable is likely to become a mass noun (as with the 'on your tie' situation). E.g. I would fill something with beet and onion, not beets and onions, if they had been rendered into some mashed/chopped form. Not that I'd ever fill anything with (AmE) beet/(BrE) beetroot. Disgusting.<br /><br />Also, when it's being used as a modifier of something else, it'd naturally go to singular in AmE, as in 'mashed potato situation', 'mashed potato variations' 'mashed potato cake', etc. in COCA. 23 of the 78 hits are modifiers.<br /><br />And then there is one case where it's a single potato that's been mashed, so that's still a countable use--it just hasn't needed to be pluralized.<br /><br />All the ones in COCA that have Mr Oliver as the speaker (I see four on a quick glance) are being spoken by Jamie Oliver--Essex boy.<br /><br />So, there are a few possible examples that might be non-modifier mass nouns, but not many, and it's not for certain that they're AmE speakers (one is spoken by a fictional Italian immigrant, I believe).lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11756312530226443072010-08-09T02:40:53.703+01:002010-08-09T02:40:53.703+01:00OK, interesting... in that case I'm going to t...OK, interesting... in that case I'm going to take the liberty of respectfully doubting that this distinction holds true very reliably in the UK. For what it's worth, for this speaker of a possibly slightly conservative form of BrE, the plural comes more naturally for the name of the dish -- not to say that the singular is impossible. A very quick look at Google and COCA seems to show that the singular can sometimes be the name of the dish in America too? Perhaps less often than in the UK all the same.Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6206766970651796942010-08-09T02:02:20.706+01:002010-08-09T02:02:20.706+01:00Harry, you're basically saying what Americans ...Harry, you're basically saying what Americans would do with the count/non-count of scrambled egg(s)/mashed potato(es). It's mass when it's treated as a substance other than for eating, but for eating, it's plural. Note that in BrE you get things on menus like 'scrambled egg on toast' and Delia and Jamie et al. have recipes for 'mashed potato', not 'mashed potatoes'. Unless you're massing only one potato, you couldn't say that in AmE (and you probably wouldn't say it even then).lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54609201125089618852010-08-09T02:02:13.997+01:002010-08-09T02:02:13.997+01:00I suppose pease porridge would be the now extinct ...I suppose pease porridge would be the now extinct sense of porridge as "a thick soup made by stewing vegetables, herbs, or meat, often thickened with barley, pulses, etc" (OED).Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-85315583802339408222010-08-09T01:58:36.339+01:002010-08-09T01:58:36.339+01:00Actually, I don't think it's as simple as ...Actually, I don't think it's as simple as scrambled egg(BrE), scrambled eggs (AmE). I think there is a, sometimes subtle, distinction in BrE betwen the dish and the food seen as the substance that the dish is made of. One would still serve scrambled eggs, but if you spilled some on your shirt it would be scrambled egg you would scrape off. "My favourite food is mashed potatoes" but "that stuff has the consistency of mashed potato". To take a clearer case, one would of course serve baked potatoes or order a baked potato, but by the actual (uncountable) stuff that your baked potato is made of is baked potato. Would an American say "you've got scrambled eggs on your tie"? Would it be "you've got (mashed/baked/whatever) potato on your tie" or "potatoes"?Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29690337235195655302010-08-09T01:49:37.708+01:002010-08-09T01:49:37.708+01:00Americans eat oatmeal. When I was a child hearing ...Americans eat oatmeal. When I was a child hearing the word 'porridge' in the story of the three bears (and elsewhere) I imagined that it was something very strange and involved to make. I think I suspected it might have ground dried peas in it (from the Pease Porridge Hot rhyme). At any rate, it was not a word that I ever encountered at the table or in the kitchen.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.com