tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post115394086796732845..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: Spiro Agnewlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30073803284591294922020-08-10T14:27:34.702+01:002020-08-10T14:27:34.702+01:00BrE. I don’t get the problem with pronouncing Spir...BrE. I don’t get the problem with pronouncing Spirograph: it’s for making spirals. Unless anyone out there talks about speerals. Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32957327555961175802014-04-27T18:04:22.055+01:002014-04-27T18:04:22.055+01:00Perhaps I spoke too quickly. I just did a bit of a...Perhaps I spoke too quickly. I just did a bit of a search online, and I read that both Sapir and Safire are variants of the name Shapiro. No idea if that is true, but I guess it may be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74655729847696013562014-04-27T17:48:25.420+01:002014-04-27T17:48:25.420+01:00I realize this is an old post, but I'd like to...I realize this is an old post, but I'd like to comment on Sapir. The name is probably a transliteration of the Hebrew word for sapphire. In Hebrew it is in fact pronounced with the emphasis on the second syllable, which rhymes with "spear." This does not prove that this is how Sapir himself pronounced it, but it is certainly plausible if his family retained the pronunciation of the original form of the name. Sapir's name may actually be the same as William Safire's, which was apparently originally Safir. In Hebrew, the same letter is used for the p and the f sound, though one has a dot in it and the other does not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8283467208685547712013-04-18T13:52:29.021+01:002013-04-18T13:52:29.021+01:00Knew a guy from Minneapolis named Spiro Spero (Gre...Knew a guy from Minneapolis named Spiro Spero (Greek). As with spirograph or Mr. Agnew, I've always pronounced all of them with unstressed /I/ "spiro" (rhymes with spit or spill?) I love the pseudo-Greek wrap with lamb/beef meat with sauce, tomato, onion, all in a monster wrap. Pronounced either /yeeros/ or /Jai-row/ around here (Iowa). Latter makes me cringe, but why not? Gyros are good, either way.n0aaahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08020996948408839877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16670103647682188922012-05-19T15:47:15.918+01:002012-05-19T15:47:15.918+01:00I especially like the South African story as I had...I especially like the South African story as I had a few of them this kind there too ; )Stephaniehttp://www.native-translator.de/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55264296781822936762010-02-04T10:44:49.735+00:002010-02-04T10:44:49.735+00:00I've always reckoned that if I were fortunate ...I've always reckoned that if I were fortunate enough to visit the UK that I would be inwardly wincing whenever a British citizen pronounced my last name of Lancaster. <br />For a few hundred years, my family has pronounced it so that it rhymes with the phrase fan faster. However, I am aware that the British version is LANKester. While I wouldn't answer to that in the US (or would correct the speaker) in the UK I would (with a smile even) just out of sheer politeness.dang ithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15579552053986700367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89719200515707926282010-01-20T13:37:36.196+00:002010-01-20T13:37:36.196+00:00Thanks, vp. Interesting that both of Lynne's p...Thanks, vp. Interesting that both of Lynne's pronunciations are with an A in the first syllable, whether or not stressed.<br /><br />Linguististics. Geddit??!!Paul Danonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04816761952837296368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90542841029665357882010-01-19T19:16:26.869+00:002010-01-19T19:16:26.869+00:00@Paul Danon:
FWIW: Wikipedia gives the pronuncia...@Paul Danon:<br /><br />FWIW: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Sapir" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia</a> gives the pronunciation of "Sapir" as /səˈpɪər/, rhyming with "appear". No source is given.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91080087257867725582010-01-19T18:04:50.593+00:002010-01-19T18:04:50.593+00:00I've heard Sapir's first syllable as both ...I've heard Sapir's first syllable as both /sap/ and /sεip/. A few years ago I went to a lecture by Professor William Labov and, while the British there were calling him /lə'bɔv/, the Americans called him /lə'bəuv/. The study of how you pronounce language-experts' names is called linguististics. The South African (and New Zealand) phenomenon of changing all vowels to schwa is known as lenition.Paul Danonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04816761952837296368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61273910370218932182010-01-18T23:38:07.827+00:002010-01-18T23:38:07.827+00:00@Alexis:
Most English people actually pronounce A...@Alexis:<br /><br />Most English people actually pronounce ANN as [æn] -- i.e. with the exact same vowel phonetically as in TRAP. <br /><br />No American I have ever heard does this. The vowel is always nasalized and raised: something like [ẽən]. To British ears, this is probably the single most distinctive feature of a US acent.<br /><br />With respect, I very much doubt that your GRANT was actually [grænt] -- that would rhyme with English English "RANT".vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36851146024025375722010-01-18T23:17:55.800+00:002010-01-18T23:17:55.800+00:00@lynneguist Fair enough, I just find that very sur...@lynneguist Fair enough, I just find that very surprising and wondered if it might be someone's personal or local idiosyncasy. Shame it's so much harder to get a quick straw poll when it comes to phonetics, as you could by googling for, say, spelling alternatives! <br /><br />Sapir is a rather strange-looking name to anglophone eyes, which might prompt some random attempts. I wonder what UK pronunciations you've heard of the Mediterranean Lingua Franca known as Sabir. I suppose the name Samir is relatively familir in Britain, and of course Yitzhak Shamir, and I can't imagine anyone pronouncing that "S(H)AMire".<br /><br />PS Thanks for a very useful-looking link.Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84883233086812255412010-01-18T23:04:12.180+00:002010-01-18T23:04:12.180+00:00@Harry Campbell: Names are often exempt from gener...@Harry Campbell: Names are often exempt from general pronunciation patterns, though. I have definitely heard a fair amount of the rhymes-with-Sapphire pronunciation, and considered this to be kind of like people pronouncing 'Levin' as LevINE (like 'ravine') where I (and most AmE speakers, I'd think) would pronounce it as LEVin (rhymes with Kevin). Pronunciations of Levin listed <a href="http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/Levin" rel="nofollow">here</a>, but unfortunately that source doesn't have Sapir.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9250873361505110242010-01-18T22:58:01.615+00:002010-01-18T22:58:01.615+00:00Sorry, I meant *JC Wells's* LPD of course. (Ve...Sorry, I meant *JC Wells's* LPD of course. (Very annoying that you can't correct posts once they've appeared. I know, be more careful.)Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36657991719766578332010-01-18T22:56:14.824+00:002010-01-18T22:56:14.824+00:00Seriously? Sapir pronounced SAP-ire, like sapphir...Seriously? Sapir pronounced SAP-ire, like sapphire?? I can't think of any other word in which -ir would be pronounced as if written -ire. Are you sure this is general in the UK? This UKian never heard it pronounced like that. I think I may have heard SAY-peer though, and I see that's listed in J C Well's Longman Pronunciation Dict as an alternative pron.Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-45381887632068549772010-01-18T22:25:34.187+00:002010-01-18T22:25:34.187+00:00@Allie:
Have you read Nancy Mitford's The Purs...@Allie:<br />Have you read Nancy Mitford's <i>The Pursuit of Love</i>? Poor Juan gets his name massacred...Marc Naimarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15832885558832932466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1114029758235800562010-01-18T21:55:21.147+00:002010-01-18T21:55:21.147+00:00I had a similar problem to Ann when I was in the U...I had a similar problem to Ann when I was in the UK. People simply would not understand me when I said Grant because I use the American /ae/ (low front) and not the Scottish /a/ (low central). But I could not get myself to say my name in a way that sounded incorrect to me, even though I knew it would sound right to everyone else (it is a Scottish name after all).<br /><br />Sometimes you just have to go with the incorrectness though. Many Californian placenames that have relatively 'correct' English versions available are hopelessly butchered by people who live in the area, and you're the one who sounds wrong if you say them correctly. ("San Rafel" for San Rafael is my least favorite. Ugh.)Alexishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15019989788721036349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60430885928924362212010-01-18T21:40:33.901+00:002010-01-18T21:40:33.901+00:00My year in England: I'd say in General America...My year in England: I'd say in General American, "My name is Ann," and teacher would write down "Ian" and say, "What an unusual name for a girl." Rather than full mimic, I started saying what to me sounded like, "My name is On."<br /><br />Back in the US, many years later, I met a Mancunian named Ian. He laughed when I introduced myself--people here think his name is Ann (and what an unusual name for a man...).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-37834611052747596752008-11-03T18:44:00.000+00:002008-11-03T18:44:00.000+00:00My husband (UK) insists on our surname being prono...My husband (UK) insists on our surname being pronounced "properly" as Day-veez. "It's got the E in it, it's Day-veez, not Day-viss."<BR/><BR/>As a bonus, if you say Day-veez, most people manage to spell it right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-586045468946135272007-05-22T02:08:00.000+01:002007-05-22T02:08:00.000+01:00@ Paul DanonSuddenly bursting, mid-sentence, into ...@ Paul Danon<BR/><BR/><I>Suddenly bursting, mid-sentence, into a foreign pronunciation of just one or two words, only to lapse back into one's estuaryese can disturb one's audience and, even, in my case, sometimes wake them.</I><BR/><BR/>I have fond memories of watching one of a series of documentaries about the Silk Road on TV in Singapore in the mid-1980s. The programme was made in Japan and had been locally dubbed into impeccably pronounced RP, except that all the Chinese place names (of which there was at least one per sentence, often two or three) were pronounced in what for all I know was equally impeccable Mandarin, complete with the tones. That does ... disturbing ... things to an English sentence.RWMGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04271851970303022440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54038268630591535632007-01-03T10:44:00.000+00:002007-01-03T10:44:00.000+00:00I would just like to add tha Blagojevich`s ancesto...I would just like to add tha Blagojevich`s ancestors came from Serbia, where his name would be spelled Blagojević and pronounced something like BLUH-go-yeh-vich, the vowel in the second syllable being something like the English would use in words lie God, Bob, shot etc.(lynneguist mentioned it in some of her previous posts)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47914187362586911982006-12-01T16:13:00.000+00:002006-12-01T16:13:00.000+00:00The current governor of Illinois spells his name '...The current governor of Illinois spells his name 'Blagojevich'. He pronounces it, approximately, "blah-GOY-yuh-vitch" (sorry, not fluent in phonetic marks). His ancestors were presumably immigrants from somewhere or another ... but the pronunciation has now thoroughly Americanized.<br /><br />So it was disturbing and funny to me to hear the BBC World News refer to him as 'Governor blago-YAY-vitch'.<br /><br />I realized some time ago that a good rule of thumb to offer my recent immigrant friends on 'how to prounounce odd words in American placenames' involves (a) putting the heaviest emphasis on the second syllable (if it has more than two -- if it has two, accent the first), and (b) schwaing all but the most accented vowels. It doesn't work every time, but at least it'll get you close enough that people will know what you're talking about.<br /><br />That got me in trouble on 'Sepulveda Boulevard', though. :->Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83521691705571532712006-11-21T20:12:00.000+00:002006-11-21T20:12:00.000+00:00One does what one can with the sounds one has. AmE...One does what one can with the sounds one has. AmE has a perfectly respectable and widely (more than in BrE) used /a/ sound. What beats me is why they don't use is in Italian <b>latte</b> but, instead, say /lɑtei/. One would be forgiven for thinking, BTW, that <b>latte</b> meant <b>milk</b> — you know, all the other stuff about lactation and lactic acid. But no. It's a type of coffee.<br /><br />I had an argument with an African acquaintance called Mr Ngakane about how English-speakers might pronounce words like his name which began with /ŋ/. I can just about do it but my point was that normal (!) speakers would be better off using /j/ which is the closest English-language sound. As it was, they, untutored by me, used the rather uncomfortable-making /nagə/<br /><br />At Leeds-university in the 1970s there was a Mr Woodhead in the linguistics-department who, annually, would give a very witty talk and demonstration of <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_consonant>click-consonants</a>. He would amusingly imply that, the rest of the year, he was kept in a cupboard and only "wheeled out" (his term) every year to amuse the second-year English-language students with his Zulu voiceless affricated velar plosives. It came as something of a pleasant surprise to undergraduates in a long-term emotional relationship to discover that they had been practising bilabial ingressives in the back-row of the cinema without even knowing it. The question is, which closest sound in English does one choose to do for clicks? /k/ or /t/ suppose, but how boring,<br /><br />Suddenly bursting, mid-sentence, into a foreign pronunciation of just one or two words, only to lapse back into one's estuaryese can disturb one's audience and, even, in my case, sometimes wake them. Imagine you're pontificating one night at a bus-shelter in Poplar about French politics and decide, perhaps a paragraph ahead of time, that you're going to have a shot at an authentic rendition (without a safety-net) of Ségolène Royal. You're all limbering-up for the delicious /ʁ/ at the start of her surname yet, when you do it, people think you've been slightly sick and offer a tissue. Try an authentic Dutch pronunciation and they give you a cough-sweet, German and they back off, Italian and they think you're drunk.<br /><br />No, best to stick to English's reliable old set of some 40 phonemes and, while you're about it, really relish the final /s/ or (better still) /z/ in the well-established Parisss, Marseillezzz and Lyonzzz.<br /><br />This brings me to the time-honoured British tradition of <b>Irritating the French</b>, which includes scrupulously pronouncing otherwise silent terminal letters. Dijon mustard must be /di'ʒɔn/ (where getting the stress wrong really rubs it in). If a gentleman is a <b>doyen</b>, be sure to describe him as a <b>doyenne</b>. The first elements of <b>en suite</b> and <b>en route</b> are an absolute gift, and none can forget the exquisite habit of Mr John Major, former British prime minister, of pronouncing the French president's surname as though it was something you put under a car to change a flat tyre.<br /><br />Of course, such phonemic warfare is waged in the opposite direction. Across the Fifth Republic and her former dominions, schoolchildren are, according to the Napoleonic timetable, drilled in ensuring that their pronunciation <b>beat</b> and <b>bit</b> are identical. This is unfortunate if, like one TV-chef I heard, you end up telling people to put items for cooking into the oven on what sounded un-nervingly like a baking-shit.Paul Danonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04816761952837296368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1155804212244083712006-08-17T09:43:00.000+01:002006-08-17T09:43:00.000+01:00Perhaps poor Don Quixote gets an even rougher ride...Perhaps poor Don Quixote gets an even rougher ride on the continent (European continent) for in Germany it is pronounced "kee-SHOTE".<BR/><BR/>Makes me think of the AmE humorous rendition of "danke schoen" as "donkey shorts". :¬)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1155326973064388772006-08-11T21:09:00.000+01:002006-08-11T21:09:00.000+01:00On "Don Quixote":KathyF is right.Spanish "x" as th...On "Don Quixote":<BR/><BR/>KathyF is right.<BR/>Spanish "x" as that time sounded like modern "j", which has the sound of english "h" (perhaps stronger).<BR/><BR/>Actually, in spanish the usual spelling is "Don Quijote", don't remember "Don Quixote" anywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1154441267672482302006-08-01T15:07:00.000+01:002006-08-01T15:07:00.000+01:00I spent my whole life in love with Ray DAVE-eez of...I spent my whole life in love with Ray DAVE-eez of the Kinks, when living in the US. How incredible that suddenly I have to change the pronounciation! I never heard ANYBODY in the US say that surname properly.<BR/><BR/>But NOW some of them do...thanks to their friend Janet, who now lives in the UK!<BR/><BR/>;-)<BR/><BR/>Janet<BR/>(lordcelery.blogspot.com)Janethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16494516976868488211noreply@blogger.com