tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post1211645097377848632..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: trips and journeyslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-45699319529418034472014-04-18T13:55:14.378+01:002014-04-18T13:55:14.378+01:00I wrote that (for me)
a trip is a there-and-back ...I wrote that (for me)<br /><br /><i>a trip is a there-and-back excursion by transport</i> <br /><br />and added the stipulation that <i>to X</i> is expressed.<br /><br />I see there is (for me) another stipulation: a <b>trip</b> is easy and simple, even trivial, whereas a <b>journey</b> is relatively serious and difficult. As Mrs Redboots observed, we can make <i>a trip to the shops</i> or <i>a trip to the cinema</i>. <br /><br />Cole Porter wrote of:<br /><br /><i>A trip to the moon on gossamer wings<br />Just one of those things</i><br /><br />But the serious, not to say dangerous, there-and-back excursion of astronauts was described as a <i>manned flight to the moon</i>. (When they actually landed, the description switched to <i>moon landing</i>, leaving the travel(l)ing element unsaid.)<br /><br />To speak nowadays of a <i><b>journey</b> to the moon</i> would (to me) sound ominous. Not implying a return is too close for comfort to implying no return. However, I'd happily speak of the <i>journey to the moon</i> at the start of <b>2001 A Space Odyssey</b> — in a fictional time when return trips/journeys are assumed to be commonplace.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36044389944315572432014-04-17T23:42:56.089+01:002014-04-17T23:42:56.089+01:00Basically, I use trip and journey in mutually excl...Basically, I use <i>trip</i> and <i>journey</i> in mutually exclusive contexts:<br /><br />• a <b>trip</b> is a there-and-back excursion by transport<br />• a <b>journey</b> is a movement by transport to a particular place (The <b>return journey</b> is something else, which is not under consideration)<br /><br />This basic distinction holds true for me when there's an explicit <b>to X</b>. A <b>trip to Russia</b> is a holiday. My <b>journey to Russia</b> in 1970 was something quite distinct from my return in 1971.<br /><br />However, <b>trip</b> has made some border-crossing inroad in my speech — possibly an actual change in my lifetime, possibly an influence from AmE. I can use <b>How was your trip?</b> to mean 'How was your your journey here?'<br /><br />The all-pervasive metaphorical use of <b>journey</b> represents life as a one-way (somewhat difficult) progression to a destination which is some sort of psychological resolution. I hate the expression, not for the wording but because I hate the metaphor.<br /><br />On the other hand, <b>life's journey</b> is OK because death is a perfectly plausible endpoint.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90365301646503464992014-04-17T18:16:55.773+01:002014-04-17T18:16:55.773+01:00Massachusetts age 25-
The difference between thes...Massachusetts age 25-<br /><br />The difference between these and other related terms is one of scale.<br />From smallest distance or least preparation on to largest and most then:<br /><br />Trip<br />Hike/Drive<br />Journey<br />Expedition<br /><br />The first two terms could also be termed an outing, the last two an adventure. The middle terms might also be an excursion.<br /><br />Of course any of the above could be interchanged for the purpose of under/over statement.<br /><br />What a mess!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02138260302522477243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25718994633904891372011-02-03T17:44:05.756+00:002011-02-03T17:44:05.756+00:00LOL I remember when our new friends we met on our ...LOL I remember when our new friends we met on our honeymoon, a British couple, came to visit and the husband kept calling the wife "silly cow." We were shocked!PurpleCarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461102532876375940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-50064790419952790862010-05-08T23:19:39.107+01:002010-05-08T23:19:39.107+01:00No, Solo, you are right. Historically, in trades r...No, Solo, you are right. Historically, in trades regulated by a guild, journeyman is an intermediate stage between apprentice and master. <br /><br />I did not know until now why it was called that, but apparently it does have something to do with being allowed to charge for a day's work (and nothing to do with traveling (BrE travelling ?)).<br /><br />I get a little peeved when sports commentators refer to a baseball player as a journeyman meaning simply that he has traveled a lot, working for different teams.emptyhttp://voidplay.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-20704713923912014092010-05-07T18:16:28.223+01:002010-05-07T18:16:28.223+01:00I stand corrected. That comes of being a hack I su...I stand corrected. That comes of being a hack I suppose.Solonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-53266579052374082982010-05-07T11:56:39.085+01:002010-05-07T11:56:39.085+01:00In the area of creative endeavours (writing, drawi...In the area of creative endeavours (writing, drawing, design, etc.) "journeyman" is barely one step up from "hack". Doing journeyman work is churning out potboiler stuff that just about meets minimum requirements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26792574886190405502010-05-07T01:05:36.216+01:002010-05-07T01:05:36.216+01:00I think that the meaning described by Solo and Sha...I think that the meaning described by Solo and Shaun is still common in the US. Trade unions use it that way. "Journeyman work" is competent, what one expects to be paying for.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14376545097377854998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56567493018910396262010-05-06T23:22:27.021+01:002010-05-06T23:22:27.021+01:00Well, no Solo - in the UK I understood that a jour...Well, no Solo - in the UK I understood that a journeyman was hired by the day (Fr. journee), thus would work for several different employers. He might have to walk from place to place, thus the two senses merged.<br /><br />To add to the theme: I read recently that the Tour de France originally referred to the annual migration around the country of pedlars and tradesmen.biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-43614034487902853552010-05-06T23:16:54.577+01:002010-05-06T23:16:54.577+01:00Solo - erm, no, I thought a journeyman was a craft...Solo - erm, no, I thought a journeyman was a craftsman employed by the day (journee) - he may have had to walk from place to place, so the two senses merged. <br /><br />In a similar vein, I read recently that the origin of the Tour de France lies in the routes taken by seasonal workers (and pedlars and tradesmen) around the country.biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74434708922616763522010-05-06T20:05:03.975+01:002010-05-06T20:05:03.975+01:00I'd like to throw my weight behind David Young...I'd like to throw my weight behind David Young's comments. That's exactly how I [20-something South BrE] understand those respective terms.<br /><br />I have always understood 'journeyman' to be someone who has passed the apprentice/trainee stage but is not yet a master of their craft and is therefore travelling about gaining experience. No?Solohttp://www.inthesilverlining.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-49466034250449120062010-05-06T09:57:21.202+01:002010-05-06T09:57:21.202+01:00Some authors in the UK's National Health Servi...Some authors in the UK's National Health Service have recently started talking about "The Patient Journey", as, for example, at <a rel="nofollow">http://www.institute.nhs.uk/quality_and_service_improvement_tools/quality_and_service_improvement_tools/a_focus_on_the_whole_patient_journey.html</a>.<br /><br />This is not about the exercise of stoicism by transport staff, and the word "trip" would therefore not be right.<br /><br />I wonder if, in BrE at least, "trip" focuses on the goal or outcome of the expedition ("I made a trip to the beach" is about the seaside) whereas "journey" focuses on the business of transportation ("my journey to the beach was slow"). This would fit with the metaphorical use in the NHS and elsewhere, where the <i>process</i> of travelling is central.<br /><br />I might make a trip to hospital for treatment, but I (BrE) don't think I'd say that I made a journey to hospital, unless I really wanted to talk about the ambulance service.<br /><br />(And I'd never talk about "The Student Journey", though I wouldn't put it past our awful university managers.)David Younghttp://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/davidy/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63875328573731124862010-05-04T16:53:38.636+01:002010-05-04T16:53:38.636+01:00In it's orignal meaning a journeyman was someo...In it's orignal meaning a journeyman was someone who had completed an apprenticeship but wasn't yet a mastercraftsman. <br /><br />I was about to say that in that respect the UK sporting meaning is closer to the orignal, but I see on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman that on the continent it was common for journeymen to move around to increase their experience before becoming a master, so that matches the US use.Shaun Clarksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290670832534929741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16140413906465456172010-05-02T13:37:41.050+01:002010-05-02T13:37:41.050+01:00"Somewhat OT: American baseball broadcast com..."Somewhat OT: American baseball broadcast commentators have taken to using the word 'journeyman' to mean a player who has made many moves from one team to another in the course of his professional career."<br /><br />Also used in sports commentary here in the UK, but for us it means "strictly average, an honest toiler, nothing special".Siddershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00683584536177433003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78227279041815468892010-05-01T19:28:54.947+01:002010-05-01T19:28:54.947+01:00For me, the far more interesting thing about Ameri...For me, the far more interesting thing about American Boy is hearing Kanye West using a few obvious Britishisms (rubbish and ribena being the obvious ones) - which is not what you're used to hearing from US rappersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6314753506014355022010-05-01T01:38:36.897+01:002010-05-01T01:38:36.897+01:00Somewhat OT: American baseball broadcast commentat...Somewhat OT: American baseball broadcast commentators have taken to using the word 'journeyman' to mean a player who has made many moves from one team to another in the course of his professional career.emptyhttp://voidplay.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54911729622862850362010-05-01T01:36:53.823+01:002010-05-01T01:36:53.823+01:00I think that for us Americans 'journey' is...I think that for us Americans 'journey' is no longer an everyday word and accordingly it has picked up a sort of grand quality: it's a special word, not to be used for ordinary examples of traveling. At the same time, it has also lost all connection with its etymological roots, so that for us Marco Polo's great trek to China and back (for example) seems to deserve the name 'journey' whereas any particular one-day leg of it does not.<br /><br />The fact that we have the expression 'round trip' suggests that in order for a piece of traveling to be called a trip it does not have to involve ending where you begin.emptyhttp://voidplay.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61332642186155637102010-04-30T19:01:50.540+01:002010-04-30T19:01:50.540+01:00The sentence used in relation to "break your ...The sentence used in relation to "break your journey" made perfect sense to me (NW England BrE).<br /><br />"Break your journey" means voluntarily stop for a short while before carrying to wherever you were going. "Stopover" would include an overnight, for example such as you might get when changing planes in Dubai en route from London to Sydney.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06148992289166413933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32014258633910340362010-04-30T06:42:27.742+01:002010-04-30T06:42:27.742+01:00@ Sid Smith - Congratulations on your marriage. Yo...@ Sid Smith - Congratulations on your marriage. You(perhaps unknowingly?)used a very humorous phrase in your article. I think maybe lynneguist might comment on the different way AmE uses the phrase "wedding tackle" !Dilsnikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14963518186504018840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54478745556953958982010-04-30T00:41:19.541+01:002010-04-30T00:41:19.541+01:00Dear Mrs Redboots,
My generation has adopted the ...Dear Mrs Redboots,<br /><br />My generation has adopted the Americanism 'roadtrip' (as one word) but it is used strictly in the sense of an American 'road movie' and is far more than a mere car journey. <br /><br />A roadtrip is a mission (in the 20-something BrE colloquial sense meaning quite far and of considerable effort to reach) across country, for several days, probably taking in several stops/major landmarks/ coming of age experiences along the way.<br /><br />Just driving somewhere in your car could be a trip or a journey, but roads need not be referenced as they are taken for granted in this instance.<br /><br />'A Trip To The Moon' incidentally is a charming children's picture book by Jill Murphy (which I strongly recommend for Grover if you haven't got it already Lynneguist). The title is deliberately flippant as the baby teddy bear builds himself a rocket ship out of a cardboard box and flies up the chimney into space with a colander for a helmet. <br /><br />The expression has fallen into common parlance, but I maintain it began as a cultural reference and is therefore not necessarily representative of the typical BrE applictaion of 'trip'.<br /><br />Consider also our national penchant for sarcasm and irony. referring to something lengthy, costly and possibly life-threatening as a 'little trip' is really just our way.Solohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09740368155249391858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8725932809762846392010-04-29T21:25:04.001+01:002010-04-29T21:25:04.001+01:00My dear (tempted to write an uncharacteristic &quo...My dear (tempted to write an uncharacteristic "Honey...") I married "him" too, and the only animal name he's called me has been "bitch". He means it in a very seductive way, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59403802560126450742010-04-28T20:49:02.260+01:002010-04-28T20:49:02.260+01:00Like some others, my (BrE) intuition would be that...Like some others, my (BrE) intuition would be that a trip is a 'there and back' while journey might not be.HelenBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57815096211441646722010-04-28T12:01:17.493+01:002010-04-28T12:01:17.493+01:00'Journey' tends to refer to the travelling...'Journey' tends to refer to the travelling part of the trip, whereas 'trip' refers to the whole experience.<br /><br />So if you're going to Paris for the weekend, 'have a good trip' means enjoy the weekend, whereas 'have a good journey' only refers to the travelling between your home and Paris.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952564820382472228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5590312836510688652010-04-28T11:08:33.912+01:002010-04-28T11:08:33.912+01:00@Lynneguist - ah, but Train English - from your f...@Lynneguist - ah, but Train English - from your first station stop, to alighting from the train (with all your unattended packages) - is another language altogether. You can't use that as an example of British English.townmousehttp://cityexile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30980970500891540502010-04-28T10:54:44.281+01:002010-04-28T10:54:44.281+01:00@anonymous: 'tripper' in that sense was al...@anonymous: 'tripper' in that sense was already quaint-sounding by the mid-70s when I was a kid. Mostly because cheap package holidays had demolished the day-trip market.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com