tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post1363533674278234007..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: just aboutlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8671270662635741392017-02-01T16:15:19.805+00:002017-02-01T16:15:19.805+00:00Personally I (BrE, 72) struggle with some of the s...Personally I (BrE, 72) struggle with some of the subtleties identified by David Crosbie. I could never say 'just about' when referring to a completed action, using instead 'only just', or 'just' (or 'didn't'), where 'only just' is closer in time or closer to failure to complete than just 'just'. For me, as many others here, BrE and AmE, 'just about' means 'nearly, and I/it very soon will be'. For ease of completion (of catching a plane, a pass (sport or exam)) I have a spectrum something like: nailed it, easily, comfortably, just/barely, only just, [no completion beyond here] failed. For stage of completion: barely started, not yet, nearly, almost, <i>just about</i>, [completion occurs here] only just, just, completed.<br /><br />I believe that many (most?) American football plays consist of just two or three passes, followed by a tackle or a run, then a break, whereas 'soccer' is a flowing game in which, at its best, players string together pass after pass after pass after pass after . . .; this difference may be why one game finds it important to record incomplete passes while the other doesn't even have the concept. Even so, is the 'just about made that pass' formulation one that an AmE commentator could use to describe an 'only just' incomplete pass? Would a commentator really use a verb that implies completion ('made') to describe an incomplete pass? I do wonder whether the American commenters who say they would take 'just about' to mean that the pass was incomplete are using logic to dig out the only logical meaning available to them rather than describing what their natural reaction would be to actually hearing it.<br /><br />Commenters here are very sensible people so they are probably reporting accurately, but I do not believe any BrE speaker could hear - or read - that sentence and think that the pass had failed. I understood the quote to mean a barely made pass because 'pass' implies completion. British sports don't call a pass that fails to reach its target a 'pass' - unless qualified by the manner in which it failed. We might say: "A tried to pass to B / passed the ball to B but was miles off / C intercepted / B didn't get to the ball".<br /><br />I think I probably hear more of this type of 'just about' than I am aware of, and I think I probably understand from emphasis ('jyyyuuust about') that it means 'success, but it could so easily have been failure'.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16506461853420402712014-06-19T08:41:44.392+01:002014-06-19T08:41:44.392+01:00I'm late to this, but got here via the same th...I'm late to this, but got here via the same thing that Ron Shields noticed: that the football commentators say things like "he just about cleared the danger" when the player obviously did clear the ball, and wanted to make sure that I was interpreting it correctly. To me as an American Southerner, I would say "just barely". <br /><br />Anyway, thanks for clearing this up for me.Brnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18242601851481279077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6317198833121319402012-12-19T07:12:18.965+00:002012-12-19T07:12:18.965+00:00"Little" the phrase is rare in my experi..."Little" the phrase is rare in my experience (United Kingdom). People often say "a little" or "a little." Soon, the "small" voice of the United States or Australia.Wordpress Developmenthttp://www.hitechito.com/technology/open-source-technologies/wordpress-development.phpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28280059035112689332012-04-23T10:16:34.313+01:002012-04-23T10:16:34.313+01:00Kevin said (in January) ....it only dawned on me j...Kevin said (in January) ....it only dawned on me just in time ... and slowly it dawns on me that 'only just' is the better BrE phrase for the 'barely made it' sense - either 'I've only just completed the job today' or 'I only just had enough paint to cover the walls'. Either way, it's a positive phrase, just about!biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60553064813530530472012-04-13T21:59:53.736+01:002012-04-13T21:59:53.736+01:00I've been following soccer (I'm American) ...I've been following soccer (I'm American) from England for a while, and I've noticed this phrase show up more the past few years than maybe 10 years ago (google brought this page up as the top result for "just about" britsh vs american).<br /><br />This phrase is one of the few Britishisms I can't get used to.<br /><br />"Just about got back" to me should mean "he almost got back to cover, but was a fraction of a second behind", but it seems, when used by British to mean "he barely got back in time to cover".<br /><br />Or the like.<br /><br />Love the blog - first time I've come across it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-70169876032014355892012-02-21T14:46:49.835+00:002012-02-21T14:46:49.835+00:00@David Crosbie: Thanks for the Cobuild reference, ...@David Crosbie: Thanks for the Cobuild reference, my own reads "New Edition" but it's 2006, so it must be older than yours. <br /><br />I am not British, and neither am I American, I am a native of Spanish (Latin American variety) but by profession a certified translator of English (living and working in Montevideo, Uruguay, South America). So the meaning of idioms, expressions and sayings is always of great interest to me. Linguistically speaking, I am half British, half American (I learned English at a British institute but did my senior year of High School in the U.S. and my son and family live there). If I had read the sentence on my own, without the background of Lynne's post and the string of comments, I would have interpreted "just about made that pass", as per the Cobuild definition, to mean that the player "barely" managed to make it (or, as David initially said, that he "almost didn't" do it). <br />If I say "I've just about had it", I mean that I have reached my limit of tolerance.<br />"I'm just about ready", to mean that I am practically, or almost, ready.<br />"The book deals just about this issue", to mean "precisely with".<br /><br />So this is my two cents as a linguistic outsider, as it were.<br /><br />Thanks for the opportunity to participate in such an interesting discussion.Nelida K.http://www.traducciones-montevideo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42581046302100508472012-02-21T12:11:27.770+00:002012-02-21T12:11:27.770+00:00Thanks Lynne for the explanation.
The phrase &qu...Thanks Lynne for the explanation. <br /><br />The phrase "just about" is one that I hear quite often on British TV as an answer to a question:<br /><br />Q: "Are you ready?"<br />A: "Just about."polyglothttp://all-about-polyglots.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35374551782437242672012-01-24T17:50:59.565+00:002012-01-24T17:50:59.565+00:00Peter M sent me this apt cartoon".
Failing ...Peter M sent me <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/lynneguist/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2F4emDU4tB" rel="nofollow">this apt cartoon</a>". <br /><br />Failing at the post-a-week new year's resolution (as well as the 'go to bed earlier' one). Hope to have a new one later in the week...lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28339713523693876832012-01-23T20:54:58.827+00:002012-01-23T20:54:58.827+00:00Thanks David--the COBUILD stuff is great. I sillil...Thanks David--the COBUILD stuff is great. I sillily blog at home and keep most of my dictionaries at the university. Well, not entirely sillily, because I don't have an office at home since Grover came along. But maybe some day the real estate gods will let me move and have an office at home again...lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77527713156410264792012-01-23T19:48:20.286+00:002012-01-23T19:48:20.286+00:00Following from that COBUILD definition, I realise ...Following from that COBUILD definition, I realise that i could say <i>He just about made that pass</i> under these conditions:<br /><br />1. Smith kicked the ball towards Jones.<br /><br />2. Instead of reaching Jones's foot, the ball hit the ankle of Robinson, who was trying to intercept.<br /><br />3. The ball glanced off Robinson's ankle directly to the toe of Jones's boot.<br /><br />So Smith <i>just about made that pass</i> to Jones (thanks to Robinson).<br /><br />Not that I would claim that the commentator cited meant anything like this.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36491522774983068512012-01-23T17:54:51.166+00:002012-01-23T17:54:51.166+00:00Over the weekend I was in London where the booksho...Over the weekend I was in London where the bookshops are big, spotted a new (to me) edition of Collins COBUILD and looked up this phrase. Back home, i see that my 1987 edition also covers the phrase (which I should have though of before). Its treatment of one sense is <b>just about</b> identical, but the treatment of the other sense has changed somewhat. Here's the old entry:<br /><br /><b>just</b> /dʒʌst/<br /><b>1 ...<br />...<br />13 Just about</b> is used <b>13.1</b> to say that something is so close to a particular level or state that it can be regarded as having reached it. E.G. <i>She was just about his age ... Everything is just about ready.</i> <b>13.2</b> to say that something is in fact possible, although it is very nearly not possible. E.G. <i>It is I suppose just about possible ... 'Can we get to the airport in an hour?' 'Just about.'</i><br /><br />In the margin there are cryptic grammatical notes (unnecessary for native speakers) and semantic notes to the effect that meaning <b>13.1</b> is similar to <i>roughly</i> and meaning <b>13.2</b> is similar to <i>barely</i>.<br /><br />The new edition swallows the marginal notes into the body of the entry (the grammar info. is still there — I'm not sure about the semantic). From memory, I think the second sense no longer centres on what is <b>possible</b>. I think it gives an example of something which <b>only just</b> happened — not dissimilar to <i>He just about made that pass</i>.<br /><br />The characterisation of the first sense is not exactly what we've said, but I think it's better. Not so much<br /><i>Close, but no cigar</i> <br />as <br /><i>Not 100%, but so close that we'll give you the cigar anyway</i>. <br />Personally, I tend to express this sense with <br /><i>to all intents and purposes</i>. <br /><br />I'm a big fan of COBUILD. Only the statistically most frequent words and senses get a look in, and the senses are presented in order of popularity — no question of starting the entry for <b>gay</b> with anything but the 'homosexual' meaning. So COBUILD confirms that — according to their data bank — the two sense we've discussed are reasonably common in British English usage, and that the <i>to all intents and purposes</i> sense is the commoner of the two.<br /><br />Health warning: COBUILD isn't aimed at native speakers. If you just want to look up unusual words, buy another dictionary. But for my interests, it's second only to the OED.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4012189959314336592012-01-22T19:34:07.863+00:002012-01-22T19:34:07.863+00:00To me "He just about made that pass" mea...To me "He just about made that pass" means to say that if he was not under pressure at the time he made the pass, then he is a poor footballer.<br /><br />If, however, he was under pressure at the time he made the pass, then he deserves some praise, but he still deserves to be damned with faint praise. That is because in the nature of football-speak it is permissible and encouraged to speak in superlatives.<br /><br />If he was under terrific pressure at the time he made the pass, then the statement is neutral about his abilities.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04881509432705597309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31379856542895197882012-01-21T23:30:13.693+00:002012-01-21T23:30:13.693+00:00I may be wrong here, as I'm commenting on a d...I may be wrong here, as I'm commenting on a dialect I don't speak, but I think 'move house' is specific to England and Wales, and that the Scots 'flit'. It's a usage that always sounds odd to my conventional English ears, as to me 'flit' implies leaving in a way that has something disreputable about it.<br /><br />I don't know what 'close but no cigar' means. I've never heard the phrase. So I'd not be able to say whether 'just about' which is normal idiom, conveys the same thing.Drunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24979625919372363922012-01-21T00:52:04.730+00:002012-01-21T00:52:04.730+00:00Phew, a kind, kind person (and fantastic local wil...Phew, a kind, kind person (and <a href="http://my.opera.com/Words/blog/" rel="nofollow">fantastic local wildlife photographer</a>) found the text of the post in his RSS reader and sent it to me. I hope I've restored the links and formatting sufficiently. Phew.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66958366137202382522012-01-20T23:33:11.461+00:002012-01-20T23:33:11.461+00:00I have accidentally deleted the content of this po...I have accidentally deleted the content of this post. Crying to commence immediately. Any clues how to get it back would be greatly appreciated.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90161417297873737802012-01-20T07:08:08.684+00:002012-01-20T07:08:08.684+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.iphone application developmenthttp://www.openxcell.com/mobile-application-development/iphone-app-development.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51628787832149593432012-01-19T13:12:56.320+00:002012-01-19T13:12:56.320+00:00I didn't say that it had to be "she has m...I didn't say that it had to be "she has married". It's the "just" that makes the difference.<br />Traditional British usage would be "She has just done X" rather than "She just did X", though I notice a recent tendency here for advertising slogans such as "X just got better". I think this issue has been discussed in another thread.<br /><br />Kate (Derby, UK)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2569808560453790862012-01-18T14:08:22.142+00:002012-01-18T14:08:22.142+00:00Kate
"She just about married" doesn...Kate<br /><br /><i> "She just about married" doesn't really mean anything in British English.</i><br /><br />Well, it <b>can</b>. It simply requires the appropriate real-world circumstances to reflect — and these circumstances are somewhat unlikely to occur.<br /><br />For a start, in British English we don't insist on <i>she has married</i> if the lady in question is dead. Not do we insist if a <b>definite time</b> is specified or implied.<br /><br />So, it's fine to say:<br />• <i>My late sister fell in love with a GI during the War and <b>she married him</b></i><br />• <i>Last month Kate flew to Australia to join her boy-friend and <b>she married him</b></i><br /><br />What difference would <i>just about</i> make? Well, there are two possibilities<br /><br />1. <i>They had two children together, they lived together, and they signed a contract that looked very like a pre-nuptial agreement. In short, <b>she just about married him</b></i><br /><br />2. <i>Sarah flew half way round the world, knowing that Peter might die at any moment. A priest was called, with the warning that there might be a wedding, a funeral or both. It was a very close thing but <b>she just about married him </b> on his death bed.</i><br /><br />For me, the latter is ambiguous but I would assume that the marriage took place — unless something in the speaker's voice suggested otherwise.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35888931877363313772012-01-18T09:59:03.425+00:002012-01-18T09:59:03.425+00:00Matt said:
>She just about married Thor.
>...Matt said:<br />>She just about married Thor. <br /><br />>I take it that in British English >this would mean that that she and >Thor are the newest of newlyweds? <br /><br />No, that would be "She has just married Thor". "She just about married" doesn't really mean anything in British English.<br /><br />"12 p.m." is a pet peeve of mine too. What's wrong with "12 noon"?<br /><br />Kate (Derby, UK)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61428497176291750212012-01-17T23:38:51.055+00:002012-01-17T23:38:51.055+00:00I agree with you, Ø, that "12am" is nons...I agree with you, Ø, that "12am" is nonsense too. The two twelve o'clocks are noon and midnight.<br /><br />And I agree even more with Mrs Redboots. Indeed, Mrs R., we SHOULD be using the 24-hour clock -- at least in writing. I once nearly missed a flight in the US because I was waiting and waiting for the departure time to come up and it only dawned on me just in time that the "525P" being displayed (in precisely that strange format!) on the departure screen meant 17.25. <br /><br />Incidentally, 24.00/0.00 isn't really a problem: everyone knows that they each mean midnight -- but it's very useful to have both available because 24.00 signifies the end of Day 1 and 0.00 the beginning of Day 2, so that, for instance, a train ARRIVES at 24.00 but DEPARTS at 0.00.Kevinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-48707489759880054362012-01-17T13:41:09.826+00:002012-01-17T13:41:09.826+00:00The answer is simple - use the 24-hour clock! But...The answer is simple - use the 24-hour clock! But even that begs the question as to whether midnight is 0:00 or 24:00... it's just about the perfect enigma (to bring this vaguely back on-topic!).Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-39777646221048672402012-01-17T13:17:37.500+00:002012-01-17T13:17:37.500+00:00Yes, Kevin, if anything deserves to called 12pm, i...Yes, Kevin, if anything deserves to called 12pm, it's midnight, since midnight comes along next in the sequence 1pm, 2pm, ..., 11pm, ...<br /><br />But, to quibble a little more, in some sense Npm does not mean N hours after midday: rather, it means the Nth of the post-midday hours. At least, so it seems to me when I think of am as well as pm.<br /><br />On a related note, it might be a little hard to call noon 12am since it's not before noon. The situation is hopeless.Øhttp://voidplay.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47980721836900727562012-01-17T10:52:38.430+00:002012-01-17T10:52:38.430+00:00The last Anonymous was me, BTW. I clicked on the w...The last Anonymous was me, BTW. I clicked on the wrong circle.Kevinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33826699031881921772012-01-17T10:51:07.782+00:002012-01-17T10:51:07.782+00:00Yes, but what is "12pm" when it's at...Yes, but what is "12pm" when it's at home?<br /><br />12 post meridiem (12 hours after midday) is midnight, not noon.<br /><br />Sorry, off-topic -- but's in old hobby horse of mine!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-41409534394981639002012-01-17T02:03:03.237+00:002012-01-17T02:03:03.237+00:00I'm British and to me "just about 12pm&qu...I'm British and to me "just about 12pm" would most likely be used for 11:58am or 11:59am. But it could also be used for exactly 12pm or slightly afterwards, but that wouldn't be as likely IMO.Andy JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819413906544791899noreply@blogger.com