tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post1455754053519474160..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: toiletlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8603323395117513072020-08-24T13:01:57.866+01:002020-08-24T13:01:57.866+01:00Is it possible that a house with the toilet below ...Is it possible that a house with the toilet below the staircase is so old that it didn't originally have an indoor toilet? Then when it was decided to install one, the cloak room below the staircase was where it could fit in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69669953247536593762018-05-15T16:00:43.479+01:002018-05-15T16:00:43.479+01:00Hello Ginger!
Fatherland is decidedly patriotic ...Hello Ginger! <br /><br />Fatherland is decidedly patriotic and "Mother Country" is delightfully matriotic. Look that up in a dictionary and you will not find a trace of an obvious omission. Entries for matrimony and matrix can be expected, but reading between the lines we find that "matriotic is so unmentionable and unthinkable that not even a space may be left to indicate a gap in our ability to think. Banish the thought!" <br /><br />If "urinal" can be accepted as receptacle for urine then it seems logical that "faecal" can be accepted as a receptacle for faeces. Apparently "faecal" is accepted exclusively as an undesirable medical condition, and it should lack ambiguity in reference to such conditions. However, when you desperately need to shit, the need for arbitrary social niceties and locally expected obscure evasive formulations will not seem polite or be appreciated. <br /><br />This usage of "faecal" is only a suggestion and an indication that when we need something then there should be a clear common word to indicate that need. In this context, a failure to communicate may lead to a need for a change of clothes and a bathroom or a shower-room. Larry Anttilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865762634013142530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58875466384959487172018-05-15T00:47:18.783+01:002018-05-15T00:47:18.783+01:00Camera necessarium obscura? You have a co-worker w...Camera necessarium obscura? You have a co-worker with occult needs.Larry Anttilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865762634013142530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51356815802151556732018-05-15T00:22:24.319+01:002018-05-15T00:22:24.319+01:00Ursula K Le Guin used the word "shitstool&quo...Ursula K Le Guin used the word "shitstool" and I wonder if that is dysphemism. I also wonder how many kinds of faux-bourgeois words there are. Commode is fitting when accommodating to local usage seems fitting. <br /><br />Currency is a problem. By the time a word is included in a dictionary it may have dropped out of usage or acquired a different meaning. Linguistic research takes time and the documentation expected for peer review and acceptance will take much more time than the research itself. By the time it becomes known it will no longer be current. <br /><br />Dysphemism can also be a way of acting tough and may appear in any social stratum from ghettos and prisons to boardrooms and election campaigns. It seems that both euphemism and dysphemism can hinder clear, efficient communication. Learning about them may help us to avoid them if we can or work around them when we can't.<br /><br />Larry Anttilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865762634013142530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17425630326275395112018-05-14T20:31:18.685+01:002018-05-14T20:31:18.685+01:00JohnB, a sensible view, I think.
"Toilette&q...JohnB, a sensible view, I think.<br /><br />"Toilette" is diminutive so it may be regarded as a small room or a minor subject. It also means a dressing table or a manner of dressing. For example "en grande toilette" is in full dress. <br /><br />"Toile" means linen so "toilette" is literally small linen, i.e. rags. There have been various uses for rags before disposable nappies, tampons and toilet paper were available. Therefore toilet may have been an euphemism or simply an abbreviation for "the room of small cloths." <br /><br />"Garde-robe" or garderobe was associated with medieval toilets."Garde" can mean guard, keep or ward. "Robe" can mean coat or dress and perhaps more. Cloakroom also seems to be related. Larry Anttilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02865762634013142530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63635785721303915392017-12-24T14:59:42.149+00:002017-12-24T14:59:42.149+00:00Hi Cameron, Of course the 'crapper' and th...Hi Cameron, Of course the 'crapper' and the verb 'to have a crap' are singularly vulgar and not for polite society - but at least they come from the early water closet (lavatory) manufacturer 'Thomas Crapper' - who had a moulded metal sign on the cistern, at eye-level to a standing man. Best JamesJames Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67925822885204010362017-12-24T14:55:14.789+00:002017-12-24T14:55:14.789+00:00Hi Canadian, We Brits would certainly understand t...Hi Canadian, We Brits would certainly understand this. Our polite and perhaps now slightly old-fashioned version would be 'Ladies' and 'Gents' e.g. "Could you tell me where the Ladies is, please?" or "Where's the Gents?"- these words being traditionally printed in capital letters on signs on the doors of public loos in restaurants, train stations, etc, and often underneath the outline male or female figure. Nowadays the outline figures are usually used without words, except in more traditional pubs (Public Houses, where alcohol is consumed). Country pubs can have 'Cocks' and 'Hens' or 'Stags' and 'Hinds' in jocular fashion. Best, James James Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91593172899758739422017-10-22T00:56:58.816+01:002017-10-22T00:56:58.816+01:00What a delightfully amusing page! Article, comment...What a delightfully amusing page! Article, comments and all... I've been thoroughly entertained and all smiles or laughs since I got here.<br /><br />I must proudly confess that I am quite partial to the (somewhat obsolete) AmE Southern terminology for the "waste receiving' furniture: COMMODE. It is so underused and underappreciated!<br />I derive great pleasure from using the term as a conversation piece/starter.<br /><br />I was born and raised in the mid-Atlantic South (TN, NC, VA), but my father—an educator by profession—was mostly prepared in the UK, or in the Aristocratic deep South. So I ended up adopting a fair amount of his word-choice habits.<br />In referencing the room with the commode, my usage varies by context and mood. Toilet is my most common choice, for the mere purpose of mildly agitating high-strung people or strangers, but I don't hesitate to use: the head, the can, bathroom, restroom or the facilities. Again, to confuse or discombobulate people— or in an attempt to make them feel ignorant or slightly violated.<br /><br />I also relish inquiring about the location of the bidet, not only for similar reasons just mentioned, but also because I have had a lovely bidet attachment for the last decade and I am quite unaccustomed to the exceedingly unpleasant, unsanitary, uncomfortable and barbaric task of attempting to clean my back side with flushable tissue paper! So uncouth!AuralArchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16228906896632013113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34734548698083919592017-10-14T20:16:13.801+01:002017-10-14T20:16:13.801+01:00At the risk of these comments lastng longer than a...At the risk of these comments lastng longer than a roll of Andrex, I'd like to put a word in for 'bumf', meaning lavatory paper. It's short for 'bum fodder', and is now more usually used to mean pointless paperwork - suggesting that the paperwork's best use would be to wipe one's sit-upon.<br /><br />I'm not sure that KeithD is correct in assuming that 'toilet paper' took its name from the room - I suspect it's even further removed. I'm certain that the very old Oxford English Dictionary in our school library did not list 'toilet' as having any connection with the WC, but <em>did</em> list 'toilet paper' as primarily paper used 'for toilet purposes such as shaving' (or some similar wording), and only gave 'paper for the privy' as a <em>secondary</em> meaning. <br /><br />It would certainly make sense if 'toilet paper' originally had a non-lavatorial meaning that would have allowed it to be referred to without too much embarrassment: that would also fit with archaic euphemisms such as 'curl papers' that implied that the purchaser was going to use the paper for curling their hair and not for any unmentionable activities.<br /><br />I'm always astonished about how universal 'WC' has become in continental Europe, having been neglected in Britain for years; though it's beginning to be seen a little more frequently on signage in the UK. I recently found a sign on an eastern European train that instructed the user not to flush the closet in stations, in five languages: in every language 'WC' was in evidence, except in English, in which they had stuck, pleasingly, to 'lavatory'.<br /><br />Now, please excuse me: I must go and <em>see a man about a dog</em>.Tony Robertshttp://avonwicknorthhuish.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61718957945690700332017-01-27T18:38:47.585+00:002017-01-27T18:38:47.585+00:00Adam Kuban asked what Brits call toilet paper. Wel...Adam Kuban asked what Brits call toilet paper. Well, I call it 'toilet paper'; someone of higher class than me (they would say 'than I') would call it 'lavatory paper', as Lynne suggested. 'Bog roll' is school (and later) slang. 'Loo roll' is a handy BrE euphemism that will always be understood and I doubt will offend anyone.<br /><br />In England I buy my toilet paper from the US company Costco, which apparently sells the same Kirkland product here as it does in America. I say this because it is labelled "Bath Tissue"! Now 'bathroom tissue' I could understand, albeit with some mental jarring because 'bathroom' doesn't mean the same to me as my BrE 'toilet', but I would have thought that even Americans who say 'bathroom' would wonder why anyone should need to use tissue in the bath itself. That seems to be euphemism taken about as far as it can go (until 'home tissue' comes in).<br /><br />Any term that doesn't refer directly to the excretory function or the matter excreted is in some sense euphemistic, even toilet. (I assume the paper takes the name of the room as descriptor and so is euphemistic at one remove.) But then function and matter both have a medical term, an 'Anglo Saxon' term and a number of synonyms that are euphemistic to varying degrees. The Australians have many more circumlocutions, but I suspect their use is jocular rather than euphemistic. If only we could all settle on one set of international terms and not feel uncomfortable using them. After all, Victoria R died over 100 years ago, yet the dysfunctional prudery continues?<br /><br />Just a quick mention for 'khasi' and its spelling variants, in common use when I was in the British Army as slang for toilet.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22683164761032070942016-06-06T20:32:00.779+01:002016-06-06T20:32:00.779+01:00David Crosbie wrote: Inside the house the word was...David Crosbie wrote: <i>Inside the house the word was la (rhyming with Shah )</i><br /><br />I haven't heard that particular euphemism for years! In fact, I had totally forgotten about it, but I think it was the one used in the junior house at my school - as I said above, in the senior house one said "ponty" with no definite article. ("I want to go to ponty!"), but I think in the juniors we went to the la! At home, we went to the lav, and then later to the loo.... unless we wanted to "go and be a lady" (my mother's term, as she would never let us say "lady" when we meant "woman" unless she was titled) which really applied to public loos.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67183844133505504542016-06-06T11:05:52.167+01:002016-06-06T11:05:52.167+01:00Sorry! Those Unicode characters did show up on the...Sorry! Those Unicode characters did show up on the posting as it left my computer. <br /><br />To see what they look like you can visit the Wikipedia page where I found them<br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_toilet#In_Unicode" rel="nofollow">here</a>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36689399885268330312016-06-06T02:57:44.393+01:002016-06-06T02:57:44.393+01:00The letters WC on a door in France are very helpfu...The letters <b>WC</b> on a door in France are very helpful to English speakers. Less helpful are doors in Germany and other countries with <b>00</b>.<br /><br />Looking this up for confirmation, I discover that <b>Unicode</b> has interested itself with what I would call toilet door symbols. (<b>Wikipedia</b> insists on <i> 'restrooms'</i>.) Should you ever need them, these include:<br /><br />001F6B9 ��<br />001F6BA ��<br />001F6BB ��<br />001F6BC ��<br />001F6BD ��<br />001F6BE ��David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62855381407919093282016-06-06T02:35:57.623+01:002016-06-06T02:35:57.623+01:00I reached this thread via a link entitled a certai...I reached this thread via a link entitled <b>a certain small room</b>. A new one on me, but I've often heard <b>the smallest room in the house</b>.<br /><br />When I was a small boy, the only words to be heard outside the home were <i>toilet, lavatory</i> and the much ruder <i>bog</i>. Inside the house the word was <i>la</i> (rhyming with <i> Shah </i>), which I think came from my mother's home town of Swansea (a city in the South of Wales).<br /><br /><i>Loo</i> was nothing remotely like the omnipresent word it is in Britain today. When I first heard it I thought it was childish and rather twee.<br /><br />Avoidance phraseology I hear includes <i>Would you like to wash your hands?, Shall I show you the geography of the house?</i> and the less opaque <i>Would you like to use the facilities?</i><br /><br />Tom Lehrer slipped a Russian avoidance phrase into his <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXlfXirQF3A" rel="nofollow"><i>Lobachevsky</i> song on plagiarism (click here)</a>. The supposed book review from <b>Izvestia </b>, which Lehrer translates as <i> 'It stinks'</i>, actually means 'I'm going where the Tar himself goes on foot'.<br /><br />(The alleged review from <b>Pravda</b> is actually the opening sentence of Moussorgky's <b>Song of the Flea</b>. Also translated by Lehrer as <i>'It stinks'</i>, it actually means 'Once upon a time there was a Tsar, on whom there lived a flea.)David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21035169865074869822014-11-03T10:12:00.765+00:002014-11-03T10:12:00.765+00:00In my lower middle-class family I was brought up t...In my lower middle-class family I was brought up to say "lavatory"; not that "toilet" was frowned on, it just wasn't the word we used for it.<br />If Booktrash is still reading this - in the multivolume biography of Churchill begun by his son, his name is abbreviated to WSC. (The forename Winston is traditional in his family from long before the days of ubiquitous water closets.)Kate Buntinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17223976536411967222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71913728477863997372014-08-12T02:36:53.855+01:002014-08-12T02:36:53.855+01:00The more I read about differences between Am. E an...The more I read about differences between Am. E and Br. E the more I find that the many times my southern dialect seems to be in greater agreement. Toilet is used here for both the actual item, and the room. Though my Grandmother uses the term Water Closet. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5933290780622123242014-07-06T21:44:54.051+01:002014-07-06T21:44:54.051+01:00Growing up in the Boston area, at school the bathr...Growing up in the Boston area, at school the bathrooms were referred to as "the basement" as that's where they were located in older school buildings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3361054329099319372014-04-17T22:54:05.661+01:002014-04-17T22:54:05.661+01:00Ted, allegedly the term comes from the French &quo...Ted, allegedly the term comes from the French "l'eau". Apparently the contents of the pot were regularly emptied out of the window into the street below, with a cry of "Gardy loo" ("Gardez l'eau!") to warn unsuspecting passers-by. I don't know how true that is, though - it may be an urban legend.<br /><br />Personally I grew up calling it the "loo" - "toilet" was definitely a "no-no" in my household. At school, for some obscure reason, it was called "ponty" with no definite article.... And, of course, children were taught to ask to be excused if they were caught short during a lesson, but many of them asked if they could "Go and be excused" as though that were the name of the activity....Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3867019524427410552014-02-01T00:25:35.299+00:002014-02-01T00:25:35.299+00:00Very late, but I'm wondering if anyone's t...Very late, but I'm wondering if anyone's thought about the etymology of <i>loo</i> (which, fwiw, I would understand but hear as unidiomatic). I've always assumed it was a euphemism for <i>water closet</i> by way of <i>Waterloo</i>, but of course that couldn't be the case if the term predates Wellington's victory. (Then again, I don't suppose it could, since indoor plumbing only arose afterwards.)Tednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17318033164079305532012-12-16T21:03:01.666+00:002012-12-16T21:03:01.666+00:00Since nobody else has done so, I'll mention th...Since nobody else has done so, I'll mention the colloquial "john" and euphemistic "comfort station" in AmE for a toilet room. Additionally, toilet room seems the preferred choice to designate a bathroom private toilet in hotel accommodations. <br />Interestingly enough, another meaning of lavatory in AmE is sink/washbowl/washstand/BrE & AmE washbasin. Now, if you'll please excuse me, I have to use the bathroom...Elianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16930398121025074531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-70054058024262276982012-10-16T19:45:26.066+01:002012-10-16T19:45:26.066+01:00I just thought that the term restroom came from th...I just thought that the term restroom came from the fact that you relieved yourself in one, thus resting. Mindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88469457123342133212012-09-13T08:05:28.347+01:002012-09-13T08:05:28.347+01:00Great discussion. At (Br) school it was 'Bog&#...Great discussion. At (Br) school it was 'Bog' and this continued in youthful male company into the early twenties but not when mixing with elders or with girlfriends. <br /><br />I first heard 'loo' at girlfriend's home when in my late teens and adopted this and have used it generally through adulthood although I also use 'lavatory' quite a bit and other names less often. <br /><br />Finger posts in the street used to indicate PUBLIC CONVENIENCE in the 50s, 60s & 70s and within commercial buildings CONVENIENCES (no PUBLIC to avoid the implication a the public could walk in off the street solely to use the conveniences). Both now generally replaced by TOILETS. <br /><br />One on-line discussion group where I spend much time, (UK dominated but worldwide English-speaking participants both ex-pat and others) has a recurring conversation every few months when someone mentions how distressed they are to hear people refer to the lavatory as a toilet because such usage is 'common'. A lengthy debate follows which inevitably includes complaints about the use of 'bathroom' and other euphemisms for the facilities but also complaints about euphemistic terms for bodily functions themselves. <br />I have to admit that I cringe to hear 'potty' used in reference to anyone over three years old. <br /><br />'GENTS' and 'LADIES' also quite often used except in the domestic context. I would usually ask for one of these rather than any generic term. This is essential in pubs, often evolved from houses or old buildings over many generations rather than purpose built so that these facilities can be far apart. There was an unfortunate fashion, which I hope has passed, in 'amusing' signs for the facilities in pubs. "Cocks" & "Hens", "Colts" & "Fillies", "Bulls" & "Heifers" "Ducks" & "Drakes" and so on, often linked to the name of the pub. Oh, how we laughed. <br /><br />'Privy', though archaic, is not extinct either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90901596726411456402011-08-28T02:05:06.034+01:002011-08-28T02:05:06.034+01:00Oh my this brings back memories. I was in Kinderg...Oh my this brings back memories. I was in Kindergarten in 1969 in Las Vegas when a new kid from England joined the class. I was appalled when he said he had to "go to the toilet." To my 5-year-old ears it sounded vulgar and wrong. "Normal" kids said "I have to go to the bathroom." I can still remember the kid's name and what he was wearing! <br /><br />I have a British husband and I still giggle when he says he has to go to the "loo". It never occurred to me that "going to the bathroom" would sound odd to British ears. I remember the term "lavatory" was (and still is) used on airplanes and I learned it was a "fancy" name for "bathroom".articuletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09902568587446268437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42841616608187435672011-08-28T02:03:27.752+01:002011-08-28T02:03:27.752+01:00Oh my this brings back memories. I was in Kinderg...Oh my this brings back memories. I was in Kindergarten in 1969 in Las Vegas when a new kid from England joined the class. I was appalled when he said he had to "go to the toilet." To my 5-year-old ears it sounded vulgar and wrong. "Normal" kids said "I have to go to the bathroom." I can still remember the kid's name and what he was wearing! <br /><br />I have a British husband and I still giggle when he says he has to go to the "loo". It never occurred to me that "going to the bathroom" would sound odd to British ears. I remember the term "lavatory" was (and still is) used on airplanes and I learned it was a "fancy" name for "bathroom".articuletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09902568587446268437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35457474267526887002011-08-27T04:35:02.150+01:002011-08-27T04:35:02.150+01:00One very frank fictional society in Ursula K. Le G...One very frank fictional society in Ursula K. Le Guin's fabulous novel The Dispossessed actually does call the room the shittery and the object a shitstool.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com