tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post1662662161502849809..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: à la cartelynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3802436425652910582020-08-15T22:48:47.042+01:002020-08-15T22:48:47.042+01:00Most of the slightly more upmarket burger chains g...Most of the slightly more upmarket burger chains give you the option of not having a bun with your burger; GBK meanly charges 50p more, but does give you salad or coleslaw instead. I am fairly sure I've had a bunless burger in Byron and various other places, too - like you, I prefer to eat chips with my burger. Or, indeed, sweet potato fries! Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69297196424030112020-08-15T15:41:08.676+01:002020-08-15T15:41:08.676+01:00BrE (Scot, 60+) I know decent restaurants in the U...BrE (Scot, 60+) I know decent restaurants in the UK where the vegetables are part of the main course, and pubs where vegetables are separate (and separately priced) side-dishes. However, if vegetables are part of the course, it’s usually quite difficult to exchange one vegetable for another, or even to have a vegetable omitted. Whether by upbringing or by temperament, I hate, loathe and detest wasting food. For me, just leaving it on the side of my plate actually causes distress.<br /> In America, soup and a salad is a common light meal, but I am not particularly fond of raw leaves. My experience is that it’s easy to lose the dressing, but not the whole salad. Neither restaurant staff nor American colleagues seem to understand that I don’t want to just push the salad to one side, to be taken away and dumped.<br /> My first experience with burgers was at a fairground (AmE carnival?), where the choice was with or without onions: tomato sauce and mustard were available in squeezy bottles for you to apply yourself, if wanted. Despite Burger Kng’s “any way you want it” claims, I’m not sure just how far you could strip back a burger in any chain restaurant. If I am sitting down somewhere a bit more upmarket, and having my burger on a plate, I will usually have chips, and don’t really want the bun. Try getting that combination on either side of the Atlantic. And why does it take so much effort to get a coke without ice? (I get brain freeze very easily). So, in real terms, is a menu just the starting point in a negotiation?Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-53802227771403237032013-05-23T15:47:12.217+01:002013-05-23T15:47:12.217+01:00According to the OED,table d'hoste dates at le...According to the OED,<i>table d'hoste</i> dates at least as far back as 1606. It meant a meal at an inn or whatever where everybody sat down together at a set time, to eat whatever the host chose to put on the table.<br /><br />This meaning was taken into English. But in the nineteenth century the current meaning of 'set meal' took over. The OED states that this meaning was exported back to the French-speaking world in the 1930's, but caught on in Quebec rather than in France.<br /><br />The difference between <i>menu prix fixe</i> and <i>table d'hôte</i> is that the latter can be the heading of a whole section with several of what the French call <i>menus</i>. A French <i>carte</i> would have separate headings for each <i>menu</i>.<br /><br />When not referring to restaurant food, I've heard (and may have read) <i>à la carte</i> used to mean 'cherry picking' or 'bespoke' or 'eclectic' — i.e. just slinging together unrelated choices that appeal to you, ignoring the conventional combinations.<br /><br />Probably the very first lexical information I learned when visiting Paris for the first time as an adult was that <i>Menu</i> on a menu is the heading for a <b>cheaper</b> set meal. English <i>table d'hôte</i> seems to deliberately obscure the fact that it's cheaper.<br /><br />As for <b><i>fish supper</i></b>, the parallel with American <i>dinner</i> is even closer than Anonymous said. Any item whatsoever that is fried in a chip pie can be served as a <i>supper</i> — i.e. with chips. <i>Pizza supper, fried Mars bar supper</i> ... You name it.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73607131049781461842013-05-23T07:06:05.968+01:002013-05-23T07:06:05.968+01:00RE: Burger Peddlers (NZE) never offering you a Big...RE: Burger Peddlers (NZE) never offering you a Big Mac a la carte.<br /><br />Jakarta McDonald's Kemang branch, drive through, this morning. Dude at window: Would you like that (Sausage 'n Egg McMuffin)a la carte, sir? Me in car: Look, it's early in the morning, I'm already in a bad mood, and we're in a fricken drive through. No more with this frikken a la carte! Are you gonna give it to me on a plate or what? Because that's what I understand a la carte to mean, and if so, when are you gonna climb out your fricken window and lay a napkin on me, and light the candle on my table? I just want the sausage McMuffin thing with egg "by itself" <i>sendiri</i>, okay?!! (Turns out DaW was spot on with his usage and I was the misinformed one.) In my part of the world, we commonly use a la carte in opposition to buffet, set meals not being so usual. Well, <i>I</i> did anyway...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15830162140814204263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17146215541664051182013-05-23T07:04:55.256+01:002013-05-23T07:04:55.256+01:00RE: Burger Peddlers (NZE) never offering you a Big...RE: Burger Peddlers (NZE) never offering you a Big Mac a la carte.<br /><br />Jakarta McDonald's Kemang branch, drive through, this morning. Dude at window: Would you like that (Sausage 'n Egg McMuffin)a la carte, sir? Me in car: Look, it's early in the morning, I'm already in a bad mood, and we're in a fricken drive through. No more with this frikken a la carte! Are you gonna give it to me on a plate or what? Because that's what I understand a la carte to mean, and if so, when are you gonna climb out your fricken window and lay a napkin on me, and light the candle on my table? I just want the sausage McMuffin thing with egg "by itself" <i>sendiri</i>, okay?!! (Turns out DaW was spot on with his usage and I was the misinformed one.) In my part of the world, we commonly use a la carte in opposition to buffet, set meals not being so usual. Well, <i>I</i> did anyway...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15830162140814204263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83012332087807595522009-11-05T04:35:35.002+00:002009-11-05T04:35:35.002+00:00In the (maybe less upscale) places I've been a...In the (maybe less upscale) places I've been around the SF Bay Area, the distinction is usually between the 'lunch' version (smaller, no non-french-fry sides) and the 'dinner' version (which usually comes with soup or salad).<br /><br />I've only ever heard people use à la carte at Chinese restaurants during lunchtime, when you want to order a separate, single dish from the menu instead of the lunch special (which comes with soup/wontons).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38195146513814029462009-10-26T22:31:56.568+00:002009-10-26T22:31:56.568+00:00Re "red sauce", I once worked with a Rom...Re "red sauce", I once worked with a Romanian girl who insisted on referring to tomato sauce (on pasta) by this name, claiming to have heard it used in this way during a six-month stay in New York. I dismissed this, assuming she was literally translating the Romanian equivalent in her head. I was clearly wrong...Spanish Cowhttp://spanishcow.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54935744564999469872009-10-22T11:10:56.816+01:002009-10-22T11:10:56.816+01:00I had lunch in one with my daughter a couple of ye...I had lunch in one with my daughter a couple of years ago (Giraffe, this is, sorry); it was okay - and our family got a new supper item as I'd ordered their huevos ranchos tostada, which was not only delicious, but easy to make at home!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40761018009247480512009-10-22T10:08:19.307+01:002009-10-22T10:08:19.307+01:00I've only eaten once at Giraffe and I wasn'...I've only eaten once at Giraffe and I wasn't very impressed. It wasn't terrible, but it certainly didn't make me want to eat there again. It wasn't noticeably cheaper than places that serve much better food (and definitely more expensive than some).Ginger Yellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103410278129312943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61985927925726433332009-10-21T23:03:45.699+01:002009-10-21T23:03:45.699+01:00As a Yank, I'd expect anything ordered a la ca...As a Yank, I'd expect anything ordered <i>a la carte</i> to be just the item itself, <i>sans</i> the other normal accompaniments of the "dinner", i.e. starch & vegetable. In fact, I've actually seen menus listing the selections as either "a la carte" or "dinner", with a higher price and a selection of side dishes for the latter.<br /><br />And while I think of it, I've noticed there are certain very expensive restaurants, even chains such as Mortons - the kind I've only ever eaten at while on the good old company expense account - which do NOT serve any side dishes automatically with the meat - those must be ordered separately (and usually for an astronomical price).darcherdnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12448545737725969132009-10-21T21:40:41.027+01:002009-10-21T21:40:41.027+01:00@Solo: Only because you asked, the first time I we...@Solo: Only because you asked, the first time I went to Giraffe (South Bank) my salad was so gritty I couldn't eat it. The second time I went (Brighton) they had about half the staff they should have had, the service took forEVer (not fun when eating alone with a toddler) and I had to ask for basic things like a spoon. <br /><br />But in general, I'm pretty unhappy with all that chain eateriness around my precious North Laine. Look what happens when I move out of the neighbo(u)rhood!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73499749085142308212009-10-21T20:41:56.169+01:002009-10-21T20:41:56.169+01:00I think the point was, in the UK, if you ordered a...I think the point was, in the UK, if you ordered a side salad it would come on the side. It's not that anyone's suggesting you can't ask for alterations to the usual service, more that as a Brit I'd just assume I wouldn't need to ask in that instance.<br /><br />Incidentally, if a dish comes with salad here, that means a few leaves and perhaps a couple of cucumber and tomato slices on the side of the plate with your main.<br /><br />I do find that asking for something to be ommitted from the menu description of a dish will tell you a lot about a restaurants practices because in lower [but aspiring to be upmarket] echelons of chain dining (Think Cafe Uno, Ask)it's not uncommon for them to be unable to comply on account of the fact everything is premixed for the 'chef' to heat up. Fail.Solonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31279388634970363192009-10-21T20:22:07.146+01:002009-10-21T20:22:07.146+01:00On the "Side Salad" issue, I think it di...On the "Side Salad" issue, I think it differs between if you ASK for a side salad, or you are simply getting the salad that may come with the meal. If you are getting the salad that comes with the meal, it is generally served before the main entree (which will most likely include a vegetable or potato as well) but if you order a side salad, they would most likely bring it with the meal, as you are indicating that it should be a side dish.<br />And, like others have said, the waitstaff in the majority of restaurants will modify your meal to suit, within reason...and not begrudgingly either. You want your salad at the same time? Just say so. No one is going to spit in your food for something like that.<br />Annoyance starts when you ask for something not on the menu just becasue you know they have "the ingredients back there"billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-41257636679782351022009-10-21T17:09:07.700+01:002009-10-21T17:09:07.700+01:00At Nando's in Luton, I asked for tap water wit...At Nando's in Luton, I asked for tap water with my meal. The server took an empty glass into the bathroom and emerged with a full glass. Even though it probably had indeed come from a tap, I decided not to drink it.mollymoolynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66320353766606286182009-10-21T16:10:25.461+01:002009-10-21T16:10:25.461+01:00Yeah, Olive Garden is terrible. "Nobody goes...Yeah, Olive Garden is terrible. "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."<br /><br />Wait, I actually like Olive Garden*.<br /><br />8-)<br /><br />* Really.Doug Sundsethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848091504066560951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34133957182821758642009-10-21T13:22:47.748+01:002009-10-21T13:22:47.748+01:00What's wrong with Giraffe? It's probably t...What's wrong with Giraffe? It's probably the best chain place we've got. They've got some of the more creative vegetarian options availiable. Plus, two for one cocktails.Solonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27688453061678903982009-10-20T21:17:06.598+01:002009-10-20T21:17:06.598+01:00I agree with the restaurant critique, vp...in fact...I agree with the restaurant critique, vp...in fact, I prefer any of the mentioned UK chains ...except Garfunkels...to Olive Garden or Applebees.<br /><br />I developed a deep love for Nando's while in South Africa, and was very happy to find them here. Also in Brighton, which I forgot about, Giraffe (two thumbs down from me), Yo! Sushi, Las Iguanas...we got a bunch with the redevelopment that went with our gorgeous new library. (not so new anymore)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14951957064566649472009-10-20T14:59:53.512+01:002009-10-20T14:59:53.512+01:00Please, I beg of you, don't mention Pizza Expr...Please, I beg of you, don't mention Pizza Express and Olive Garden in the same sentence. The food at Pizza Express is quite decent.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12207600761640455222009-10-20T14:53:43.879+01:002009-10-20T14:53:43.879+01:00Don't forget Garfunkel's, either.
I had a...Don't forget Garfunkel's, either.<br /><br />I had a moment of hilarity in Garfunkel's once, when a rather large lady came in and ordered a Double Hot Fudge Super Banana Split and a Diet Coke.Robbienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-41589698848592399972009-10-20T12:45:26.024+01:002009-10-20T12:45:26.024+01:00Don't forget Nando'sDon't forget Nando'sGinger Yellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103410278129312943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24501589722306658942009-10-19T21:53:21.430+01:002009-10-19T21:53:21.430+01:00@mollymooly: I don't know about Ireland, but s...@mollymooly: I don't know about Ireland, but southern England is full of chain restaurants at the sort of price level that compares to Applebee's/Olive Garden--just thinking around central Brighton, there's Pizza Express, Café Rouge, Tootsie's, Strada, a tapas chain whose name I can't remember, Carluccio's. The main differences from the US chains are smaller menus, more European vibe and town-centre/downtown locations--in smaller US cities, these things (like most things) tend to be in the suburban sprawl rather than the middle of town.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64135446226546801942009-10-19T17:12:43.798+01:002009-10-19T17:12:43.798+01:00low to mid range chain restaurants (Not say McDona...<i>low to mid range chain restaurants (Not say McDonalds but more like Applebees or Olive Garden)</i><br /><br />I have the impression such chains are more widespread in the U.S. In the U.K. there are "Little Chef" and similar at motorway stops, railway stations, etc., but they've only recently made inroads into local High Streets where residents might walk in of a Thursday evening. In Ireland still less so.<br /><br />This might correlate with people driving out of town rather than walking or public transport into town.mollymoolynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68755817891389149862009-10-19T16:49:26.709+01:002009-10-19T16:49:26.709+01:00@ Shaun Clarkson:
Moe here!
I think you hit the ...@ Shaun Clarkson:<br /><br />Moe here!<br /><br />I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment about American menus just being the starting point for negotiation. Not being the best of cooks, I tend to eat out a lot, at a variety of establishments (posh and not-so-much).<br /><br />From my experiences, anything on the menu can be adjusted to the diners tastes in the US - to a point. <br /><br />For example, if I went to a mid-price restaurant that offered a filet mignon with a side of broccoli and mashed potatoes, I could ask that instead of broccoli I would prefer green beans and instead of mashed potatoes I would like french fries. This would be absolutely acceptable at most mid-price to low-price restaurant in the US. (More posh places would only accept a request to hold an item, such as onions on a salad). <br /><br />Using the same example as above, I could feasibly ask that I have the filet mignon ala carte, which in most US restaurants would mean that I do not want the broccoli and mashed potatoes even though they are offered with the meal, and that I would most likely pay less for just the filet as I did not receive the other items.Moehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11388622532602605409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31873797498431502312009-10-19T15:44:29.855+01:002009-10-19T15:44:29.855+01:00I asked my young student cousin, who's served ...I asked my young student cousin, who's served many a Big Mac, what their standard phrasing is and he replied<br /><br />'The offical upselling method does vary slightly dependant on a few factors,<br /><br />It could range from...<br /><br />"would you like to make that a meal?" <br /><br />or...<br /><br />"is that with fries and a coke?" <br />Alternatively it could just be...<br /><br />"Is that a meal?"<br /><br />A particular favourite at MCD's is when a customer orders a meal, for example "Big Mac meal please", this would simply be followed by....<br /><br />"is that large?" '<br /><br />So at least in the UK, no mention of burger or sandwich, and they don't just want to sell you fries if they can get you a coke too.Shaun Clarksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290670832534929741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90508431409663177852009-10-19T13:46:26.565+01:002009-10-19T13:46:26.565+01:00@Solo
Perhaps you might want to try to request ch...@Solo<br /><br />Perhaps you might want to try to request changes to the menu at a restaurant where you can't see from where you're standing that the meals are precut and cooked and waiting to be handed to you.<br /><br />As for ice tea it's <a href="http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2008/04/milk-and-tea.html" rel="nofollow">already been covered</a>.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708599658301706496noreply@blogger.com