tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post3239697033353003853..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: pro-predicate do and verb phrase ellipsislynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25690410794659498352023-11-05T08:03:25.042+00:002023-11-05T08:03:25.042+00:00I just linked to this post on Languagehat and was ...I just <a href="https://languagehat.com/the-economist-on-language-learning/#comment-4557962" rel="nofollow">linked to this post on Languagehat</a> and was rereading the comments. Utah's variety of American English is known to have BrE influences in its phonology due to 19C immigration of English Mormons directly to Salt Lake City. The greater acceptance of pro-VP <i>do</i> in that part of the country may be related to this. (Unfortunately I don't have access to the di Paolo paper, which probably says just this.)John Cowannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66891741132297906112020-06-17T21:43:55.180+01:002020-06-17T21:43:55.180+01:00The reason that:
- I usually kinda take a back ...The reason that:<br /><br /> - I usually kinda take a back seat, which I know I shouldn't DO<br /><br />sounds ok, Lynn, is that it uses lexical DO (or'main verb' DO if you prefer). This verb has a direct object, which is represented by a gap, and which is co-indexed with the word 'which'. In other words you can think of the word *which* as representing the direct object of DO there.<br /><br />The other exampes are off because, they genuinely do involve pro-VP DO.<br /><br />Incidentally, the American British split is not symetric. British 'unAmerican' nonfinite auxiliary DO is ungrammatical for most AmE speakers. But all the examples here are ok for BrE speakers, like me for example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79101401728323744642017-12-19T02:09:57.155+00:002017-12-19T02:09:57.155+00:00In some of those song lyric examples (although not...In some of those song lyric examples (although not the Williams one), I don't think do is a pro-predicate at all. "The things we used to do" is like the places we used to go, the food we used to eat, the books we used to read, the songs we used to sing, etc. - the "do" is actually the real verb there.James Kabalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02335302113772004687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-533624429246031412015-04-23T11:46:23.521+01:002015-04-23T11:46:23.521+01:00While those blues artists were singing used to do,...While those blues artists were singing <i>used to do</i>, Cole Porter was writing<br /><br /><i>It's not 'cause I shouldn't, it's not 'cause I couldn't<br />And Lord knows it's not 'cause I wouldn't<br />It's simply because I'm the laziest girl in town</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89121901397115967422015-04-23T02:49:31.307+01:002015-04-23T02:49:31.307+01:00Hooray, I'm not insane. I've been saying ...Hooray, I'm not insane. I've been saying these extra occurrences of "do" seem odd, and maybe like a Britishism, and people have seemed to think I was speaking Martian.dswshttps://www.reddit.com/r/linguistics/comments/33gvb6/has_the_use_of_do_changed/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-19078437299458751312014-04-08T14:27:05.331+01:002014-04-08T14:27:05.331+01:00James
Hank Williams in his song "Why Don'...James<br /><br /><i>Hank Williams in his song "Why Don't You Love Me" sings "Why don't you love me like you used to do/How come you treat me like a worn out shoe?", and it's hard to get more American than him.</i><br /><br />Two points<br /><br />1. <b>Do</b> is a very useful rhyme. and <i>used to</i> is handy for getting it to the end of a line.<br /><br />2. Hank listened to a lot of blues.<br /><br />My blues concordance has<br /><br /><i>Said hear me mama : who in the world been telling you<br />You don't even treat me : nothing like you used to do<br /><br />Says my woman she quit me : keep me worried and blue<br />Take me in your arms and love me : like you used to do<br /><br />Says you three time seven : and you knows what you want to do<br />Sometimes you going to think : about the good things I used to do<br /><br />Come back baby : papa ain't mad with you<br />Says I do just like : mama babe that I used to do<br /><br />And you stood and cried : what you want me to say to you<br />I want you to think about the things baby : that me and you used to do<br /><br />So they can eagle rock me they can talk me : about the things that I used to do<br />I got the Nehi blues mama : don't know what in the world to do<br /><br />I : ain't going to do like I used to do<br />I'm going to stand right here : do the same old thing to you<br /><br />Now I want you to tell me baby : baby just what's getting wrong with you<br /> Now and you don't treat me : nothing baby like you used to do</i><br /><br />But the prize goes to a blues song much recorded in 1924:<br /><br /><i>How come you do me like you do do do do?<br />How come you do me like you do?</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29598045482309592272014-04-08T07:06:55.809+01:002014-04-08T07:06:55.809+01:00Massachusetts-
With the increasing use of text s...Massachusetts-<br /><br /><br />With the increasing use of text speak it is now possible to reduce duplication even more.<br /><br />I ate all the chocolate. :(<br /><br />Though that could be construed at disappointment in there being no more chocolate, rather than shame at being such a glutton.<br /><br />More sophisticated emogees might be clearer.<br /><br /><br /> "I usually kinda take a back seat, which I know I shouldn't DO but..." <br /><br />While I would tolerate do here, I still prefer the clause without. <br /><br />In that particular sentence I would also let the comma which begins the clause do the work of which and strike which as well.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02138260302522477243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-23202081611770342010-03-20T08:57:34.512+00:002010-03-20T08:57:34.512+00:00Thanks for the posts. Great fun. My wife and I are...Thanks for the posts. Great fun. My wife and I are Americans living in England and the 'do' on the end just grates. Sounds redundant. <br />'Can you take me to town?'<br />'I can do'<br />'Do you work in town?'<br />'I do do.<br />Second one doesn't work. But I hear the first often. Though it is true that it seems to be a broken rule. No one uses it all the time. It just pops up here and there.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09194061347566469528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1014816411643523502010-03-19T15:21:02.213+00:002010-03-19T15:21:02.213+00:00Thank you so much for explaining this construction...Thank you so much for explaining this construction. I had noticed it before in the Harry Potter books and on some BBC series and wondered what was going on. It sounds so foreign to my AmE ear that I couldn't really come up with any usage examples to aid in searching. (Googling can be tricky when two of your main search terms are "word" and "do.") I should have thought to come here first. Oh well, in the future I will do. Thanks again!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07453681120365391627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83170782819328575102009-09-30T21:15:10.650+01:002009-09-30T21:15:10.650+01:00You describe a typical American pattern, Shouldn&#...You describe a typical American pattern, Shouldn't. Nothing too unusual there!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79947126654646543582009-09-30T17:30:53.879+01:002009-09-30T17:30:53.879+01:00I'm native to Utah so this is particularly int...I'm native to Utah so this is particularly interesting for me. Marianna Di Paolo is my professor for Varieties in American English. I'm finishing my bachelor's degree in Theoretical Linguistics and this semester is the first time in my life that I found out that this was an abnormal construction for AmE speakers. What I find odd is that I'm totally fine with sentences like:<br /><br /> "My husband didn’t help a lot on Thanksgiving, but he did do more than his<br />brother.”<br /><br /> "I ate all the chocolate, which I shouldn't have done."<br /><br />But this sounds marked to me:<br /><br /> "I ate all the chocolate, even though I shouldn't have done."<br /><br />Well, perhaps I should say that I wouldn't produce it, but I'm not sure I would even notice if someone else produced it. So not marked, just not natural to my mouth.shouldbewrittingapaper;thisismorefunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55235703341054448822009-06-08T13:30:59.113+01:002009-06-08T13:30:59.113+01:00New data point:
Hank Williams in his song "W...New data point:<br /><br />Hank Williams in his song "Why Don't You Love Me" sings "Why don't you love me like you used to do/How come you treat me like a worn out shoe?", and it's hard to get more American than him.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58651982527342672912008-12-15T21:43:00.000+00:002008-12-15T21:43:00.000+00:00Re: the word "stuff" not being ladylike...I figure...Re: the word "stuff" not being ladylike...I figure any word that appears in the KJV of the Bible is good sturdy English. That means "piss" is okay too. LOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9194471167935214872007-10-09T10:29:00.000+01:002007-10-09T10:29:00.000+01:00Haven't done much on modals yet, and the situation...Haven't done much on modals yet, and the situation is VERY complicated. As usual, I'd like to request that it NOT be discussed here in the comments, as it decreases the searchability of topics on the blog. (This is why I ask for requests for new topics to be e-mailed rather than left in comments.) If you want to see what else has been done on verbs on the blog, hit the 'verbs' tag at the bottom of the entry, and it will take you to other so-tagged entries. Ta!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63893819897737441642007-10-09T05:58:00.000+01:002007-10-09T05:58:00.000+01:00Turner Classic Movies in the States shows movies f...Turner Classic Movies in the States shows movies from the 30s. In the Thin Man, I believe, you will hear some of the Americans using the Br/E pro-predicate do. <BR/><BR/>Now, this could be the accent of the upper class in the US, but I don't hear it anymore in the States.<BR/><BR/>Lynne, have you ever looked a modal differences between Am/E and Br/E? An interesting one is the I would/ I should for giving advice.<BR/><BR/>Q: What is the best way to get to X?<BR/><BR/>Am/E: I would take the train.<BR/>BR/E: I should take the train.<BR/><BR/>Surely there must be other differences.<BR/><BR/>Bob Yates, University of Central MissouriAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67992657749704336732007-10-05T09:11:00.000+01:002007-10-05T09:11:00.000+01:00nbm (even though you've got my mother's initials, ...nbm (even though you've got my mother's initials, I'm going to assume you're someone else!), <I>do</I> could be considered to be a pro-predicate here, but there's more going on...more than I think I want to go into in these comments. There are probably a half dozen more posts to write about <I>do</I>!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5430140810071931612007-10-05T03:58:00.000+01:002007-10-05T03:58:00.000+01:00When I was a (n American) kid my friends and I lov...When I was a (n American) kid my friends and I loved this phrase from the English children's books we read avidly: "Do let's!" "Shall we walk with Nanny in Kensington Gardens?" "Oh, do let's!"<BR/><BR/>So: any relation?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06748534386740555038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79740519656571600912007-10-02T03:47:00.000+01:002007-10-02T03:47:00.000+01:00I just... love reading this blog.I just... love reading this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55892839674329261342007-09-29T13:18:00.000+01:002007-09-29T13:18:00.000+01:00Oh dear. To "never comment before eating" I must ...Oh dear. To "never comment before eating" I must now advise myself "never comment after Riesling".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7263955661674049982007-09-29T08:54:00.000+01:002007-09-29T08:54:00.000+01:00Errr! Sorry dearieme. I ate all the pies.Errr! Sorry dearieme. I ate all the pies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16262231444653238292007-09-28T19:13:00.000+01:002007-09-28T19:13:00.000+01:00Dearieme, what's given you the impression that I'm...Dearieme, what's given you the impression that I'm a lady?<BR/><BR/><I>Do a pie</I> doesn't as far as I can tell involve pro-predicate <I>do</I> or ellipsis, so I didn't think it belonged here. And besides, I thought we were talking about chocolate!<BR/><BR/>But perhaps you'd like to shed light on the subject?lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47671807118083047182007-09-28T18:39:00.000+01:002007-09-28T18:39:00.000+01:00But, dear lady, you have yet to face the challenge...But, dear lady, you have yet to face the challenge that is "I could do a pie". <BR/><BR/>Do you ever do a pie before five?<BR/>Oh, I do do do sometimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73877044870952033922007-09-28T14:04:00.000+01:002007-09-28T14:04:00.000+01:00Is that just could do without a subject? I think ...Is that just <I>could do</I> without a subject? I think that's like <I>will do</I>...more of a set phrase than part of a grammatical pattern.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90507551956707700692007-09-28T13:31:00.000+01:002007-09-28T13:31:00.000+01:00For what it's worth - my advisor in grad school wa...For what it's worth - my advisor in grad school was from British Columbia and she said "could do" all the time. She's the only person I've ever heard use that construction in real life, so I always assumed it was a Canadian thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80387852656492436412007-09-28T12:43:00.000+01:002007-09-28T12:43:00.000+01:00Glad so many people liked the topic...I really sho...Glad so many people liked the topic...I really should have done it much earlier!<BR/><BR/>Catching up on comments...<BR/><BR/>Wishydig (and Ken): I'm more accustomed to hearing AmE <I>will do</I> as a phrase on its own, without a subject, e.g.:<BR/><I>- Could you send me some chocolate?<BR/>- Will do!</I><BR/>Rather than as <I>I will do</I> (and probably not any other person as subject either). It comes with its own response-type intonation. So in those ways, it seems more like a set phrase and less like the grammatically productive thing that I've described for BrE--as you say. But, <I>do</I> can certainly be classified as a pro-predicate there. It's standing for another verb phrase.<BR/><BR/>James, I think your marmite example works. I found this one in <A HREF="http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:c187Vj5-p_wJ:www.geocities.com/anthonybreeze/brotherskeeper1.doc+%22I+do+do+every+morning%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk" REL="nofollow">a play by someone in Nottingham</A>:<BR/><BR/>Bill (Indicating whiskey): I’d have thought you'd have given that stuff up by now <BR/><BR/>Alan: I do do - every morning - then at night I need the crutch to help me throughlynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.com