tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post3783207571492703369..comments2024-03-28T07:47:45.855+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: both the two of uslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38518870397198755482014-03-22T02:01:41.687+00:002014-03-22T02:01:41.687+00:00Interesting...but my comment has more to do with t...Interesting...but my comment has more to do with the fact Heytesbury in Wiltshire was mentioned! Just down the road from me.<br /><br />Oh definitely the Westcountry as one word in my opinion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10830320891404684967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79483134017101603192013-11-22T10:39:03.580+00:002013-11-22T10:39:03.580+00:00"If you're not on Twitter, you probably h..."If you're not on Twitter, you probably have a rich and interesting life" oh yes indeed :) <br />I'm not on Twitter I have a great lie but I have some time for reading your posts as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14180731497300167482013-01-01T19:29:22.833+00:002013-01-01T19:29:22.833+00:00There is a 'contact Lynneguist' link on th...There is a 'contact Lynneguist' link on this site--but please note that I only cover AmE/BrE differences and will not provide private tuition in English.<br /><br />I cannot change others' comments, except to delete them. Even if I could, that would not be a service that I would be willing to provide. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47478654107251495072012-12-30T20:14:01.446+00:002012-12-30T20:14:01.446+00:00Lynne, I just found a couple mistakes and adveb mi...Lynne, I just found a couple mistakes and adveb misplacements in various of my posts I'd like to correct for the sake of letter-perfectness. As I assume I cannot do this from my side, I presume you can possibly do it from yours, can't you? Also, out of concern for your old threads being continuously flooded with my comments - and as long as the link offering to contact you will just not work when I click it - would you mind providing me an email address where I can suggest you some more topics I'd like to have discussed? Thank you.Elianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16930398121025074531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78092407828940683792012-12-30T18:55:06.798+00:002012-12-30T18:55:06.798+00:00To answer the question before: no, you couldn'...To answer the question before: no, you couldn't have 'you Mr & Mrs X'. I don't have a name for the bits after 'you'. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44308643781607293842012-12-30T18:51:38.999+00:002012-12-30T18:51:38.999+00:00It's very much regional and generational, so t...It's very much regional and generational, so there's no general rule there. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75770923199382242192012-12-30T15:31:07.299+00:002012-12-30T15:31:07.299+00:00Lynne, would you say that "you guys" sou...Lynne, would you say that "you guys" sound OK - or at least Okish - to use in speech and hence is a better alternative than "you folks" when addressing US guests staying at a Relais & Châteaux property, par exemple; or neither of theses forms of address would work for such context, and thus one would definitely be better off staying away from using these phrases in a professional setting?Elianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16930398121025074531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15868938408060120782012-12-30T14:48:54.423+00:002012-12-30T14:48:54.423+00:00Thanks for the info, Lynne. Incidentally, how do y...Thanks for the info, Lynne. Incidentally, how do you call this practice of creating other second-person plural forms by adding a noun like "guys, folks, fellows, etc." to "you"? Is there a linguistic term for it or you just don't call it? Also, can it be used orally with more specific names like "colleagues,"partners" or even "Mr. & Mrs. X." as in "How are you Mr. & Mrs. X doing today?" or it's never used in such a way?Elianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16930398121025074531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21501465693163208382012-12-30T14:14:48.968+00:002012-12-30T14:14:48.968+00:00In writing, one would just use 'you'. It i...In writing, one would just use 'you'. It is the second-person plural form. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88450298032026767982012-12-30T14:09:40.512+00:002012-12-30T14:09:40.512+00:00What would be then a becoming way to address a US ...What would be then a becoming way to address a US couple in business writing and speech without being likely to sound way too loose? (nor too folksy actually...) Should one stick to invariably using 'you" in writing and "you" or "you both" orally or are there any alternatives that might do the trick just as well? What if using "you guys" with young couples? Still best to avoid or might sound OK as long as used with utmost caution and according to context? What follows are a couple online testimonials that I found googling "Difference between you guys/you folks/you people." Think some might be of interest.<br /><br />"...All of these are ways to indicate 2nd person plural. Since English decided to merge 2nd person singular (thou) and plural (you) a couple hundred years ago, 'you' has become almost universally singular and we're left with creative ways to indicate the plural.<br />You guys - is one of the most standard and (US) region neutral ways we use in the US. I personally use this the most and live in the Mid-Atlantic. Common in the Midwest and West too. If learning ESL, I'd recommend this phrase as it's the more 'region-neutral'. <br />You folks - more colloquial. Also tends to be used as a lightly more 'formal' version of 'y'all' in the Southeast. For example, my mother has a heavy southern accent and would say to my siblings and me 'y'all have fun now', but if she's talking to customers at her store, she'd typically say something like 'Thank you. You folks have a nice evening.' <br />You people - Typically used for the purposes to set oneself apart from a group. Can be derogatory or imply anger ('You people need to listen!'). I'd avoid this if you're not a native English speaker to avoid confusion as to your tone.<br />Y'all - Southern US. Contraction of 'You all'. Tends to be used in more familiar situations, as mentioned above. Not an exclusive thing, though. IMO using 'y'all' without the accompanying southern accent sounds odd. <br />Y'inz - One of my favorites. This is the Western Pennsylvania equivalent to 'y'all'. I guess it's a contraction of 'you ones', but never in my life have I heard anyone say 'you ones'. Anyone who says 'y'inz' can instantly be pegged as being from the Pittsburgh area. <br />You all - probably the 'proper' way to say it. Not used much in the US except for those trying to seem erudite."<br /><br />"'Hey you guys!' - very casual and friendly, heard most frequently among friends and acquaintances. <br />'You folks may want to remain seated for the remainder of the flight' - used respectfully, oftentimes with seniors or to people in groups (eg. couples). <br />'You people are getting on my nerves' - often used disparagingly or in such a manner as to segregate or single out a group of individuals."<br /><br />"'You guys' is probably okay in most places, but 'Y'all' is more common in the South. 'Y'inz' is used in Western Pennsylvania, probably in the West Virginia panhandle, and parts of Eastern Ohio." Elianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16930398121025074531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13584504482088023552012-12-30T04:46:19.006+00:002012-12-30T04:46:19.006+00:00'You people' does not work. It's too o...'You people' does not work. It's too often used in negative stereotyping. Ann Romney <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/07/did-ann-romney-really-call-americans-you-people-this-morning/260084/" rel="nofollow">took a lot of flak for using it this past year</a>. I'd say 'you folks' is a bit too folksy for any business correspondence, but there are people who are more folksy than me. (And I might not want to go to their hotels.)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72452210880689002252012-12-29T15:28:49.005+00:002012-12-29T15:28:49.005+00:00Just inquiring, can "you folks" be used ...Just inquiring, can "you folks" be used in business writing by a small charming luxury countryside hotel instead of "you both" or "you" to convey a cordial comely tone addressing US clients, as in "We're looking forward to having you folks as our guests..." in lieu of the becoming, yet a tad bit shopworn "We look forward to having you as our guests...", or does it sound folksy, way too informal and thus inappropriate for such context, and hence should be best avoided in formal style and limited to casual speech and writing. Now, if it actually didn't fit, would "you people" be a better, or worse alternative? What does the expert say?Elianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16930398121025074531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33256267930510265212011-12-22T14:15:53.332+00:002011-12-22T14:15:53.332+00:00Zhoen--I don't know why this comment has shown...Zhoen--I don't know why this comment has shown up here, but I think you might have intended it for the WotY post. If so, would you like to repost it there? <br /><br />Linguists often make distinctions between 'true acronyms' that can be pronounced as words and alphabetisms. In fact, a colleague at our Christmas party was taking someone to task for not doing that! :)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83706857343877350252011-12-22T13:26:14.589+00:002011-12-22T13:26:14.589+00:00acronym |ˈakrəˌnim|
noun
a word formed from the in...acronym |ˈakrəˌnim|<br />noun<br />a word formed from the initial letters of other words (e.g., radar, laser).<br />ORIGIN 1940s: from Greek akron ‘end, tip’ + onuma ‘name,’ on the pattern of homonym.<br /><br />I would call it an acronym, but by this definition that makes it a noun - and a word. Generally I prefer them pronounceable in order to call them a word on their own, but then I don't usually have to specify.Zhoenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03515663141425057088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12654552317690088912011-09-27T23:22:44.155+01:002011-09-27T23:22:44.155+01:00I say it. When I do, people often say they like it...I say it. When I do, people often say they like it.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91308366220258105352011-09-27T23:06:55.179+01:002011-09-27T23:06:55.179+01:00"...that 'wrote me' you've got at..."...<i>that 'wrote me' you've got atop this post.</i>"<br />"Atop" is a National Geographic caption word. Surely nobody ever says it?Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55648410638716604012011-09-26T11:07:09.786+01:002011-09-26T11:07:09.786+01:00Vince, then please click on the link at 'write...Vince, then please click on the link at 'write me' for the post that discusses it. (Can we put that conversation there, please?)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90023216433383005002011-09-26T10:50:09.845+01:002011-09-26T10:50:09.845+01:00That's strange, Vince. IME people who write &q...That's strange, Vince. IME people who write "atop" are the very ones who would <i>not</i> find "wrote me" alien.<br /><br />(I'm British. For me, "on top of" is more idiomatic than "atop".)Richard Sabeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06707961497644079468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17608700590739363572011-09-26T07:34:48.216+01:002011-09-26T07:34:48.216+01:00The Both has it's derivation in the Celtic lan...The Both has it's derivation in the Celtic languages. This is true whether on an English or Yankee newspaper. <br /><br />Of all the combinations, the one that strikes us on this side of the Atlantic as odd, foreign, even alien is that 'wrote me' you've got atop this post. There is a fee fie foe aspect to it, with the implication you've been upended and your scull is the nib.Vincehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09442327549417743472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21732529485271073452011-09-24T04:34:12.918+01:002011-09-24T04:34:12.918+01:00"the both of us" sounds perfectly idioma..."the both of us" sounds perfectly idiomatic to my American ear, if somewhat folksy. <br /><br />Example: Stay away from that mean-looking dog, it's bigger than the both of us!Ethan Merritthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07414017442894084567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74145254060935795452011-09-22T16:54:32.765+01:002011-09-22T16:54:32.765+01:00"The both of" reminds me of the German &..."The both of" reminds me of the German "alle beide" or "all both," for some reason, which is just another way of saying "both of you."EPhttp://www.englishproco.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21604640548955329332011-09-21T20:58:51.654+01:002011-09-21T20:58:51.654+01:00I'm not convinced that dialect has much to do ...I'm not convinced that dialect has much to do with it. <i>Both of us</i> is Standard English — the addition of <i>the</i> adds a little non-standard colouring, achieving (for me) the same stylistic effect as <i>(only) the one</i>.<br /><br />For most styles of speech — and for virtually all styles of writing — I would prefer <i>PREPOSITION + the two of us</i>.<br /><br />Perhaps there is a semantic nuance. Tentatively:<br /><br />1a <i>for both of us</i> with more emphasis on the equality/lack of distinction between YOU and ME<br /><br />1b <i>for you and me alike</i> with even more emphasis on the sameness<br /><br />2a <i>for the two of us</i> with more emphasis on the discrete unit comprising YOU and ME<br /><br />2b <i>for the pair of us</i> much the same, with possibly even more emphasis on the discrete unit<br /><br />Perhaps, then, <i>for the both of us</i> appeals because it combines the senses of 'alike' and 'discrete pair'. It's semantically attractive, but sufficiently removed from Standard English to make it feel <b>iffy</b> in all but the most informal speech.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35114620645098191332011-09-20T13:32:10.959+01:002011-09-20T13:32:10.959+01:00It occurs to me that I've not replied to Max&#...It occurs to me that I've not replied to Max's comment/question re Twitter:<br /><br />There are followers in Twitterese, but not 'leaders'. You follow what people say, rather than follow them where they go. The differences from the Facebook 'friend' relationship is that people don't have to ask your permission to read what you post, and the relationship does not have to be mutual. So, some people end up with more followers than people they follow (I am an example of that). I think it's bad form to tweet but not follow anyone, but I do follow, but I make an exception to my "I won't follow such people" rule for @wwwordseditor (Michael Quinion), so that I can retweet links to his weekly website posts.<br /><br />It's microblogging, as they say. Not too different from what we're doing here. I don't have to read your blog or your tweets for you to read and react to mine, and you don't have to blog or tweet in order to read & react to other people's blogs/tweets.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28458203621848416852011-09-19T19:45:06.884+01:002011-09-19T19:45:06.884+01:00Who among the gods set the both of them twain to f...Who among the gods set the both of them twain to fight?Graham Ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78408037885027518812011-09-19T11:37:33.356+01:002011-09-19T11:37:33.356+01:00Well, I had to say 'at least one' because ...Well, I had to say 'at least one' because I didn't listen to all of them...the titles were enough for me.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.com