tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post5099878236451644819..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: never mindlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33807186054683530272019-04-17T11:36:54.969+01:002019-04-17T11:36:54.969+01:00There is another way to use never mind, as in “I w...There is another way to use never mind, as in “I wouldn’t give that to a dog, never mind a human “ (although “let alone a human” might be more usual). Somehow, I just assumed that it was this sense that was meant (with something missing) in never mind the Buzzcocks.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-37182834479639211632013-10-01T21:08:41.541+01:002013-10-01T21:08:41.541+01:00In Ireland in a slightly different context we have... In Ireland in a slightly different context we have "fair enough". It's used to respond to someone expressing an opinion you could agree or disagree with but which you don't particularly want to engage with at the moment.Ian Mac Eochagáinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08807587737403861042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-92151332736164632832012-08-12T04:58:55.082+01:002012-08-12T04:58:55.082+01:00Hi David,
Same Anon as above, here. Thanks for ...Hi David, <br />Same Anon as above, here. Thanks for the great clip and your notes about pronunciation! I'd never heard of Formby, but I enjoyed watching that video. <br /><br />I don't know how common this use of the term is in the UK nowadays, but where I'm coming from (east coast, US) I rarely hear it and only from older people. That's a pity; I ought to revive it! After all, in the right context, a prim little "nevermind" is more saucy than whatever we're refusing to say. :DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55483352519651836872012-08-11T13:26:00.491+01:002012-08-11T13:26:00.491+01:00Anonymous
My uncle Lionel used to say That don&#...Anonymous<br /><br />My uncle Lionel used to say <i>That don't make no never mind</i>. He was British — Welsh in fact — born over a century ago. That double negative was deliberately out of place in his otherwise middle-class speech, but it was essential for the rhythm<br /><br />From what you say it seems likely that he picked up the expression from American fellow musicians some time in the Sixties. However, it was <i>never MIND</i>, not NEVermind.<br /><br />You may not be familiar with the very English comedian George Formby (died 1961) who sang<br /><br /><i>Now there's a famous talkie queen<br />She looks a flapper on the screen<br />She's more like eightie than eighteen<br />When I'm cleanin' windows<br /><br />She pulls her hair all down behind<br />Then pulls down her <b>never mind</b><br />And after that pulls down the blind<br />When I'm cleanin' windows</i><br /><br />See <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfmAeijj5cM" rel="nofollow">this video clip</a>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91203286168209543922012-08-11T05:35:41.243+01:002012-08-11T05:35:41.243+01:00Another late comment, but I don't think I'...Another late comment, but I don't think I'm rehashing anything that's already been said. I'd like to add a note about pronunciation. The distinction between "never mind" as two words and "nevermind" as one is pretty clear in spoken English by the stress. Lacking IPA in this comment box, I'll use ALL CAPS to get the point across: <br /><br />NEver MIND = "oh that's too bad" (BrE) or "forget I mentioned it" / "it's irrelevant" (AmE)<br /><br />NEvermind = difference/importance/unmentionable (this is a hard word to define, isn't it?) <br /><br />The one-word version is found in strongly dialectal expressions like "it makes no nevermind" or "Don't give me no nevermind". I've even heard "she fell and bruised her nevermind"--that from a lady who called me her little kumquat and was generally countrified and adorable. I don't know the history of the one-word nevermind, but to my American ears, it sounds like something a little red-neck, but quaint rather than vulgar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12834995912956888672012-02-22T20:43:38.104+00:002012-02-22T20:43:38.104+00:00Sorry to leave a comment on such an old post, I wa...Sorry to leave a comment on such an old post, I was lost in link-land and stumbled over it.<br /><br />I was reading bits of this to my (BrE) other half & he was reminded of a (BrE) badge (AmE) button he had in the late nineties.<br /><br />Kurt's dead.<br />Never mind.<br /><br />Thought you might get a giggle.ellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13036209994244477176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64306829376956807912010-04-22T01:15:09.107+01:002010-04-22T01:15:09.107+01:00Nowadays I often hear something like "hey, wh...Nowadays I often hear something like "hey, what you gonna do?" as an alternative to "oh well" or "never mind". Either American or Cool Brit.Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51356878531049939482009-11-18T21:43:15.536+00:002009-11-18T21:43:15.536+00:00Emily Litella uses "never mind" in the c...Emily Litella uses "never mind" in the classic American sense:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/emilys-editorial-reply-22/2354/?__cid=thefilter" rel="nofollow">SNL</a>Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14376545097377854998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1184254893441385812009-10-25T03:49:45.215+00:002009-10-25T03:49:45.215+00:00What I first remember about Never mind is that I c...What I first remember about <i>Never mind</i> is that I could say it to my mother to mean "Ignore what I just said; it was wrong, irrelevant, or not directed to you." If I said <i>Forget it</i>, which to me meant exactly the same thing, my mother went into a tirade: "Don't tell me what to forget!", etc. etc. etc.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65755672808316921992009-05-07T10:54:00.000+01:002009-05-07T10:54:00.000+01:00Well, I'm a naturally shy (British)person, but I d...Well, I'm a naturally shy (British)person, but I don't think I would wince if an American stranger told me their name!<br /><br />Kate in DerbyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86828229352838699502009-04-18T10:15:00.000+01:002009-04-18T10:15:00.000+01:00"I wonder how an American in New York would react ..."I wonder how an American in New York would react if a complete stranger walked up to them, grabbed their arms and kisses them twice on each cheek?"<br /><br />I would just like to correct any misunderstandings that may have been imparted on French culture by the above comment. Firstly, my associating with French culture stems from 1949, I'm native bilingual and spent 40 years oscillating between both counties.<br /><br />Complete strangers in France NEVER exchange air kisses. A handshake, usually rather limp-wristed, is the formal greeting and is used far more often than in the UK.<br />And finally, it's four kisses in the north and three only in France méridional, and they are exchanged only between family members, close colleagues, and close friends. If anything , it is used slightly, but only slightly, less between men than between women.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13906457680033031232009-03-29T15:38:00.000+01:002009-03-29T15:38:00.000+01:00No-one's seemed to mention what (to me) is a salie...No-one's seemed to mention what (to me) is a salient feature of saying "never mind" or "oh, bad luck" to someone under these circumstances.<BR/><BR/>These are the phrases you say to a child after a minor mishap. You fell off your bike? Never mind, get back on and try again. Spilled your drink? Never mind, we'll soon clean it up.<BR/><BR/>So the child learns not to make a fuss over trifles, and grows up with "never mind" as the phrase that springs naturally to the lips under such circumstances. And it's reassuring to hear because it's a throwback to childhood, even if only subconsciously.<BR/><BR/>That's my opinion, anyway. Or is it just me?Robbienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11131602595391696562008-10-31T07:05:00.000+00:002008-10-31T07:05:00.000+00:00One thing I always found amusing in South Africa i...One thing I always found amusing in South Africa is that I could say Hello to someone and their response might be Fine thanks, and you? The Hello, how are you? or (SAfE) Howzit formulae were so well entrenched that any greeting might be expected to be them.<BR/>===================================<BR/>Heh :)<BR/>I've caught myself making the response on numerous such occasions. And in testing it out, if someone's reasonably occupied with something, even a fairly nonsensical opener can get the conditioned response.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61687437957792791672007-03-02T07:46:00.000+00:002007-03-02T07:46:00.000+00:00On 'How are you', this short poem is a dead give-a...On 'How are you', this short poem is a dead give-away even to the philistine that Ogden Nash was American:<BR/><BR/>Do not tell your friend<BR/>About your indigestion<BR/>How are you is a greeting<BR/>Not a question.Shefaly Yogendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12117508079407216918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-45104638035427296452007-02-09T10:10:00.000+00:002007-02-09T10:10:00.000+00:00Kate Fox, again, covers this kind of conversation ...Kate Fox, again, covers this kind of conversation in her book, claiming that the English norm is to give an automatic, vague/positive response to 'how are you?', unless one is very intimate with someone else. <BR/><BR/>The 'how are you' exchange is common across English-speaking cultures. What differs is how formulaic it is and the level of intimacy one must have with another before breaking from the formulae. One thing I always found amusing in South Africa is that I could say <I>Hello</I> to someone and their response might be <I>Fine thanks, and you?</I> The <I>Hello, how are you?</I> or (SAfE) <I>Howzit</I> formulae were so well entrenched that any greeting might be expected to be them.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-50200498598014867772007-02-09T06:26:00.000+00:002007-02-09T06:26:00.000+00:00There's an old MGM musical, I think the Ziegfield ...There's an old MGM musical, I think the Ziegfield Follies, in which the "token" conversation you describe is the whole theme. Two men meet each other over and over again for their entire lives and never once say anything meaningful (the "Hi, how are you?/great" "How are your wife and kids?/wonderful" type stuff).<BR/><BR/>I basically do it all day at my job:<BR/><BR/>Me: Hi, how are you today?<BR/>Customer: Good/fine/fair-to-middlin'/terrible (but always with a smile)/can't complain, and you?<BR/>Me: I'm fine<BR/><BR/>I'd heard that this sort of hollow conversation was more of an American thing that the British frowned upon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4608356247843825092007-02-08T23:55:00.000+00:002007-02-08T23:55:00.000+00:00Australians on the whole aren't quite as... boiste...Australians on the whole aren't quite as... boisterous (loud) as Americans and not quite as private (uptight) as the British, but we tend to have these token conversations, probably closer to the British, wherein nothing confrontational is ever mentioned. For instance:<BR/><BR/>A: How's it goin'?<BR/>B: Good mate, good. You?<BR/>A: Good, thanks.<BR/><BR/>Either A or B could potentially be having the single worst day of their life, but the worst you'll ever hear from a stranger (who adheres to these norms) is 'Can't complain'. And quite frankly, this is how it should be. Asking how someone is should <I>not</I> elicit any truthful information about how that person actually is, because to be frank, I couldn't care less (note the negative). <BR/>No, that's not strictly true, but I'd really prefer not to go any deeper than this with a stranger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-53886054032337159232007-02-08T18:29:00.000+00:002007-02-08T18:29:00.000+00:00Kate Fox explicitly discusses the mobile phone exc...Kate Fox explicitly discusses the mobile phone exception in her book.<BR/><BR/>The thing that made my reaction American was not that I minded--it would be very British to mind that kind of intrusion on one's privacy. The American bit was that I yelled at the guy!<BR/><BR/><I>Mustn't grumble</I> is a BrE mantra--not at all as internali{s/z}ed by Americans.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62066694905561561452007-02-08T18:09:00.000+00:002007-02-08T18:09:00.000+00:00I don't know if your reaction was typical of your ...I don't know if your reaction was typical of your nationality; shouldn't you not mind being told that sort of thing? Shouldn't you be used to it, if it's so typical to be treated like that?! :)<BR/><BR/>About the other stuff, yeah, i do see your point, and I can recall a few baseball-capped-leeeisure-suited-early-<BR/>retirement-aged Americans in 'Hey everybody! We're flying to Edinburrow in Scot-land tomorrow!'* type incidents on the train. But older (British) people on trains with mobile phones tend to be at least as bad as the youngsters ('<B>CAN YOU HEAR ME DEAR? I'M ON THE TRAIN!</B>' etc.).<BR/>*[I hope that bit didn't sound anti-American; I'm not.]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91092811610475810182007-02-08T17:10:00.000+00:002007-02-08T17:10:00.000+00:00Point taken, Ally, but:The 'privacy' rules we're t...Point taken, Ally, but:<BR/><BR/>The 'privacy' rules we're talking about (and the 'deference culture' in general) are lessening in general and are particularly less likely to be found (a) among youth (whether this is about being young or about a change in society must be asked. Probably some of both), and (b) among the working class, or generally any 'disenfranchised' subculture (see point (a)). <BR/><BR/>So, yes, teenagers on busses are obnoxious generally, but have you ever been on the Tube or in a restaurant with middle-aged US tourists? Don't they speak more loudly than just about everyone else!<BR/><BR/>(And would you agree that my (AmE) <B>freak-out</B> was a really American reaction?)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44008579579104465632007-02-08T10:34:00.000+00:002007-02-08T10:34:00.000+00:00No, sorry, you can't have that one! I am always, a...No, sorry, you can't have that one! I am always, always being told to "Cheer up love, it might never 'appen" by (male) strangers in the street in Britain, and also know many unpleasant and personal details about various Brighton teenagers' lives just from sitting on the same bus/ train as them! Ugh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26380331754976731322007-02-08T01:57:00.000+00:002007-02-08T01:57:00.000+00:00Here's an example from a US encounter. I was buyi...Here's an example from a US encounter. I was buying a drink at a convenience store (=BrE <I>corner shop</I>) in Urbana, Illinois early one morning (for me that means about 10am). The man at the (BrE) till/(AmE) register, said "Oh come on, smile it can't be that bad." <br /><br />On this particular occasion I (AmE) wigged out and said to him that for all he knew I had inoperable cancer! For all he knew my mother could have just died! It was not my responsibility to smile for his benefit--it's my face!<br /><br />Not a British response at all, but the man's behavio(u)r was absolutely American. It's that kind of presumption of familiarity that makes Americans different from the British. Another is how loudly Americans speak in public--so that everything they say is imposed on everyone else. (Experienced tonight courtesy of some exchange students on the train. They're going to London tomorrow. Some of them are going to leave at about 7. Some of them think that's the crack of dawn. None of them knows what's going on with Mark...)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24930936634515972082007-02-08T01:45:00.000+00:002007-02-08T01:45:00.000+00:00Ah, thanks for your explanation about the British ...Ah, thanks for your explanation about the British being more private - I had no idea that it could be to such an extreme (like withholding one's own name) and had assumed it simply meant not discussing private, health, or family matters with anyone outside of one's own family - a rule that was drilled into me while growing up.<br /><br />Being a cashier I have found that some of us Americans can be very very open with people who are essentially strangers. I've had people talk to me for up to a half hour venting their troubles - the sorts of things I would never say to a close friend let alone a complete stranger.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33742095728763033962007-02-08T01:32:00.000+00:002007-02-08T01:32:00.000+00:00I think perhaps "never mind" has a broader range o...I think perhaps "never mind" has a broader range of meanings here in Britain: from "I feel so sorry about your acute anxiety, and I wish I could remove it from you; here's a hug" (though one would never reply to the news of a loved one's death with "Never mind"!), to "Don't burden me with that - I've got more important things on my plate!" - said, for example, in response to "I've just broken one of the Crown Derby pieces." A lot is conveyed by the non-verbal means of communication, and by the context of the conversation. <br /><br />> but her ample and odd use of colons turns my brain inside out. <br /><br />Do you think Kate Fox ought to read Lynne Truss? :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40866654828094354942007-02-07T22:12:00.000+00:002007-02-07T22:12:00.000+00:00*grins* If I get a - 'Hi, I'm Bill from London,...*grins* If I get a - <i>'Hi, I'm Bill from London,' accompanied by an outstretched hand and a beaming smile</i> - my instinct would be to step back and ask myself "What is going to try to sell me?" or "Why is he picking on me? Does he have an accomplice?"<br /><br />Because that behaviour would be going against the norm here.<br /><br />When I am in the US, I expect that type of greeting and respond to it more positively - even though it seems obtrusive and forced to me. I KNOW it isn't forced - but I would have to force myself to behave like that. *shrug*<br /><br />I have similar feelings when I travel to family in France - getting kissed four times by complete strangers seems equally unusual and intrusive to me - even though its perfectly natural for the French.<br /><br />I wonder how an American in New York would react if a complete stranger walked up to them, grabbed their arms and kisses them twice on each cheek?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com