tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post5514931711942504232..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: accent attitudeslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86444075172416958362016-05-26T17:21:39.272+01:002016-05-26T17:21:39.272+01:00As someone from Northern Ireland who has lived in ...<br />As someone from Northern Ireland who has lived in many places, (and had many different reactions to my accent) one of my more amusing accent conversations was with my trainer at the gym here in California.<br />Said trainer has been trying for a number of years to get into a certain course and is constantly taking classes at community college.<br />One day she was feeling particularly despondent, looked at me and said,<br />"I wish I had your accent and then everyone would think I was super intelligent"<br />She couldn't understand the shocked look on my face, not knowing that my accent in England has frequently made me the butt of stupidity jokes.<br />I have often laughed about this since but it also occurred to me that my shock at the remark showed that I must have "accent inferiority complex" which I didn't realise I had!<br />Lyn Lloyd-Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01286627774871086474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10383671990471360152014-04-04T22:47:25.255+01:002014-04-04T22:47:25.255+01:00In regards to American impressions of British dial...In regards to American impressions of British dialects and accents I'm reminded of the following exchange.<br /><br /><br />Nellie Forbush: Do you get letters from your mother telling you everything you do is wrong?<br /><br />Lt. Cable: No. My mother thinks everything I do is right. Of course, I don't tell her everything I do.<br /><br />--"South Pacific"<br /><br />A crisp oxford accent or a lilting brogue delight the ear, but I don't think many Americans would attribute anything positive to Johnny Vegas based on his accent.<br /><br />Many other regional British accent could easily be misheard as Appalachian, Southern US, or continental European.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02138260302522477243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30256688931590811762011-06-28T15:26:13.631+01:002011-06-28T15:26:13.631+01:00@Shawn:
Any evidence for your theory? :)@Shawn:<br /><br />Any evidence for your theory? :)vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84055801950511916502011-06-28T03:54:34.209+01:002011-06-28T03:54:34.209+01:00Advertisers find that Americans perceive a cockney...Advertisers find that Americans perceive a cockney Scottish accent is the most "trustworthy" followed by the Australian. I think this explains the GEICO car insurance gecko.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BaXPg_2FJ4Shawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12282541379548705676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74384722988332963332011-06-27T03:42:07.942+01:002011-06-27T03:42:07.942+01:00As a Dutchman in Australia I get a lot of comments...As a Dutchman in Australia I get a lot of comments on my Denglish (English with a hint of windmills and tulips). Although many people tell me they like my accent, I cannot get the idea out of my head that it is not favorable when I present my projects. And some the studies support that - if I look at the other accents than British...Gerhttp://www.evitaminsformemory.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-48518719726778784352011-06-25T08:29:35.539+01:002011-06-25T08:29:35.539+01:00Remember that Americans who have not lived abroad ...Remember that Americans who have not lived abroad have most likely only experienced foreign (to them) accents in person with expatriates and tourists, and with actors and media figures, all of whom are likely to be somewhat wealthier and better educated than average. Americans who have lived abroad are more likely to have had experiences with average foreigners.<br /><br />It is this fact that may color impressions. If the only person speaking Indian or Pakistani-accented English that you've met is a doctor, engineer, or academic (quite common in the US), then you'll have a different impression of that accent than if you've traveled to India or Pakistan extensively yourself.John Thackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15269867695937765049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14789138253491232922011-06-23T01:01:30.452+01:002011-06-23T01:01:30.452+01:00Fascinating discussion and thread for someone who ...Fascinating discussion and thread for someone who grew up in Blighty but lived in the US for the past 13 years. Reminded of a "Frasier" episode when Roz commented on Daphne's uncouth brother having such a "sophisticated" accent. The line assumed enough knowledge on the part of the US-based audience to understand that it was anything but! That was back in 1998 or 1999. <br />Some observations: here in NJ/NY, many people can identify local accents: e.g. born and raised in Brooklyn vs Jersey City, Pennsylvania accents, and different New England accents. After years of living here, my ear is only now getting accustomed to the differences, which are very subtle to someone from the UK, where the accents are closer to dialects.PTHobokennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9385730383951556632011-06-22T20:55:56.761+01:002011-06-22T20:55:56.761+01:00I'm a US-born person who has lived abroad for ...I'm a US-born person who has lived abroad for a couple decades and interacted with Brits of all sorts. It's clear to me that Brits have widely ranging accents, much more so than US citizens. I think I can tell - perhaps I'm mistaken - the relative 'class' of a Brit by the speech I hear. I also think that of US people I meet. I may be mistaken. Probably often am. Accents change. People change. I wouldn't read too much into this, frankly. I seriously doubt very many people consciously change their accent. What a bother! I actually don't care what someone's particular angle on the language is as long as I can understand. Tempest in a teapot.donahoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09089355970676836531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35039865019293741422011-06-22T20:40:19.969+01:002011-06-22T20:40:19.969+01:00Nothing quite like using the reverse to your advan...Nothing quite like using the reverse to your advantage. Nothing will get a bird flying from her knickers quite like a wonderfully American "charmed to meet you"<br /><br />Ahh the joys of expat lifeSullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04373187603219945716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26387986053980522282011-06-22T17:15:23.493+01:002011-06-22T17:15:23.493+01:00Interesting discussion. I watch a fair amount of ...Interesting discussion. I watch a fair amount of British TV and movies (I'm a huge Mike Leigh fan), and while I can't make the fine distinctions (or, in particular, identify the precise type of accent a speaker uses) that a native British person would, I definitely notice differences. <br /><br />But I think it's likely correct that many Americans do not notice them. I recall reading an interview with Michael Caine in which he always found it amusing that American filmmakers wanted him to play distinguished, professorial types since his accent is nowhere close to RP.SlackerInchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275358994906136088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21674333004481567082011-06-22T07:41:44.932+01:002011-06-22T07:41:44.932+01:00To those surprised at the "Middle Eastern&quo...To those surprised at the "Middle Eastern" accent: it would be useful to know what the speaker's first language was (Turkish? Farsi? Arabic? if so, which variety?) and how much fluency (s)he had acquired.<br /><br />And, not to flog this horse to death, but the "Latin American" speaker's native tongue could have been either Spanish or Portuguese (there are an awful lot of Mormons in Brazil).vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36321741220481061942011-06-21T23:27:33.940+01:002011-06-21T23:27:33.940+01:00AHLondon: "...you must know more laid back Br...AHLondon: "...you must know more laid back Brits than I do, conceivable since I live in Chelsea. The rigid accent analysis I hear about might be an exaggerated account due to my location."<br /><br />South-east London here, the Deptford end of Lewisham. I'm even a Millwall fan :-)<br /><br />So yes, towards another pole of Londonish diversity.Ken Brownhttp://ken.wibsite.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32116587820496214332011-06-21T04:56:40.470+01:002011-06-21T04:56:40.470+01:00I remember reading several years ago that the Iris...I remember reading several years ago that the Irish actress in the TV show "Touched by an Angel" was upset that people in the US didn't realize that she was Irish. How could anyone think she had a British accent? In all honesty, most of us in the US just don't recognize most of the accents or understand the associated issues.<br /><br /><br />I think my personal experience might speak to the difference in dialect perception between the two cultures. My in-laws speak a version of AmE once common in the Rocky Mountain area of the US. To call it ungrammatical would be kind. I've never thought it said anything bad about their intelligence or social acceptability. It certainly didn't stop me from marrying their son. I will admit that I made sure my daughters didn't pick up their speech habits. But I've never been more judgmental about it than that, nor has anyone else I know. They are respected by a wide circle of friends that includes many highly educated and professional people.PWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47898611307432926282011-06-20T12:39:45.532+01:002011-06-20T12:39:45.532+01:00@Harry, I was not arguing that there was one middl...@Harry, I was not arguing that there was one middle class or upper class accent. I was arguing that among the array of accents spoken by middle and upper class Brits, Americans note little difference. Brits not only instantly note the differences among these accents, but also rank them in order of prestige. I discussed your comment with some British friends over the weekend, and I can now place all my British friends in rank order by their accents. Thanks for that, as it explains some social oddities I've seen in the past 5 years that baffled me at the time. <br />@Ken Brown re: doctors, you must know more laid back Brits than I do, conceivable since I live in Chelsea. The rigid accent analysis I hear about might be an exaggerated account due to my location.Leslie Loftis (AHLondon)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06020350324457740919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-41422015486039164642011-06-19T04:17:34.255+01:002011-06-19T04:17:34.255+01:00@ Biochemist:
The Metropolitan Opera broadcasters ...@ Biochemist:<br />The Metropolitan Opera broadcasters on NPR have legitimate New York accents, mostly. As a fellow New Yorker, I would refer to it as Upper East Side. It is the normal accent of the wealthy or educationally privileged, just as the Boston Brahmin accent affected by Thurston Howell III was a few decades ago.Dilsniknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57950624620462593772011-06-18T01:10:16.049+01:002011-06-18T01:10:16.049+01:00Living in Chicago I'm getting a *lot* of comme...Living in Chicago I'm getting a *lot* of comments about my British accent and how lovely it is, both in my office temping jobs where callers constantly remark on it over the phone, and from students when I do a bit of university teaching. My British friends have had students comment positively on it in their teaching evaluations, too. <br /><br />I don't think I've exactly heard anyone say that it makes me sound more intelligent, but people do genuinely seem to like it and even find it attractive (I am cringeing slightly as I write this). Moreover it elicits a lot of talk about how I 'must find it awful how we Americans massacre the language', which is something I would never, ever say and only think about a few individual usages that I dislike. So linguistic inferiority seems to be ongoing among some Americans anyway. <br /><br />The other thing I think is funny is that when I read out Middle English at American conferences (I'm a medievalist) I get comments about how my Britishness gives me a natural advantage... and this from English academics, who you'd think would know better!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54215000651175501492011-06-17T16:22:36.134+01:002011-06-17T16:22:36.134+01:00From Lynneguist in a comment: But most Americans ...From Lynneguist in a comment: <i>But most Americans hear single UK accents in isolation, and it's hard to keep the features in memory between hearings, especially with little UK social context to draw on.</i><br /><br />I think that makes a lot of sense. It fits also with when I do and don't notice American accents (the ones closer to mine). Including, I'm more likely to notice them when the distinction is socially meaningful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54151107854834473522011-06-17T08:38:37.103+01:002011-06-17T08:38:37.103+01:00Osbourne also slurs everything he says, so maybe n...Osbourne also slurs everything he says, so maybe not the best accent example!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57968844328963930232011-06-17T04:16:41.161+01:002011-06-17T04:16:41.161+01:00@Brett; @lynneguist
Hmmm: all my American friend...@Brett; @lynneguist<br /><br />Hmmm: all my American friends were falling over with laughter at Osborne; admittedly that may have been because of his behavio(u)r as well as his accent, but several explicitly cited his accent, and asked me to try to "translate" it.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64363420167385457972011-06-16T20:27:36.070+01:002011-06-16T20:27:36.070+01:00All these comments and nothing about Cheryl Cole! ...All these comments and nothing about Cheryl Cole! Famously dropped from the X-factor in the US because her Geordie accent is unintelligible to Americans - well, I spent 10 years on Tyneside and I can't understand her either.... I'm sure this lady has a lot going for her but being difficult to understand tends to suggest one has difficulty understanding, hence the apparent link between intelligibility and intelligence.<br /> <br />As for an 'educated' US accent - does anyone listen to the Metropolitan Opera broadcasts (early Saturday evening on BBC Radio 3)? The interval speakers and quiz masters - and some of the musicians/singers - seem to descend from a rarefied middle-European colony in New York. Boy, do they sound intelligent!biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46255703073271860792011-06-16T18:43:48.602+01:002011-06-16T18:43:48.602+01:00If you put Olivier and Osbourne next to each other...If you put Olivier and Osbourne next to each other (hard to do these days), and asked an American if they had different accents, they'd probably say 'yes' and they'd probably be able to tell you which is more 'standard'. <br /><br />But most Americans hear single UK accents in isolation, and it's hard to keep the features in memory between hearings, especially with little UK social context to draw on. So, Ozzy can be perceived as sounding distinguished, just because he sounds 'British'.<br /><br />Remember also that many Americans can't tell the difference between English and Australian or South African. It's all just 'Englishy' to our ears.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-49268514947412737312011-06-16T18:35:23.754+01:002011-06-16T18:35:23.754+01:00@vp: I think lots of Americans would react the sa...@vp: I think lots of Americans would react the same way to the accents of Olivier and Osborne. Different as they clearly are, the only salient feature to most non-Anglophile Americans is that both are British.Bretthttp://unrealisticdialogue.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75687603572393187982011-06-16T17:32:05.422+01:002011-06-16T17:32:05.422+01:00@Sandra:
I repeat my earlier point. Are you sayi...@Sandra:<br /><br />I repeat my earlier point. Are you saying that Americans would respond the same way to Laurence Olivier and Ozzie Osbourne?vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69689319130766882232011-06-16T17:10:08.079+01:002011-06-16T17:10:08.079+01:00Sandra said: "Oh come on, Brits, stop it with...Sandra said: "Oh come on, Brits, stop it with the "there is no such thing as an English/British accent!" thing! [...] Yes, the Cornish accent is very different from the Glaswegian but they still sound British more than American"<br /><br />Well, they are both British. But the difference between them is huge. In fact its larger than the difference between them and most American accents.<br /><br />If you made a family tree of English accents the main splits would come within Britain, not between Britain and other countries. A typical Australian accent is closer to southern English accents like RP, or London, or Suffolk than they are to northern English accents.<br /><br />American accents split off earlier, but RP is a lot more like, say, a Boston accent than [b]either[/b] is to most northern English accents. And RP is nearer to General American than either are to Geordie or Scots. (For a start they are entirely mutually intelligible) So the idea that any English speaker can't tell that Geordie or Scots accents are different from most English accents is really odd.Ken Brownhttp://ken.wibsite.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-43224329060811878942011-06-16T16:41:55.290+01:002011-06-16T16:41:55.290+01:00AHLondon: "In contrast, in the UK accents are...AHLondon: "In contrast, in the UK accents are never supposed to change, and it seems one of the ultimate social mistakes to try. Since a Brit would not trust a doctor with a less favored accent and since accent changes are frowned upon, accent analysis is much more rigid and unforgiving than in the states. If you have a less favored accent, moving up is difficult."<br /><br />I'm not sure its true that a Brit wouldn't trust a doctor with a less prestigious accent. OK, that is understatement, I am very sure that its not true.<br /><br />As for prejudice against changing accents, to the extent tat it exists I think it is very recent. From the early 19th century to about the 1960s it was expected that someone with a regional accent who went to university or got a job in the public eye would change their accent towards RP. Tennyson and Gladstone were thought strange for keeping some aspects of their local accent. Change was expected, maybe even demanded. Even as late as the 1970s I met university students who deliberatly affected RP.<br /><br />Nowadays we assume people won't do that. But its not entirely over. The journalistic campaign against "Estuary English" is really a bit of social policing of the boundaries of the middle class. There is some residual feeling that anoyone aspiring to move up in society jolly well ought to lose their local accents and adopt RP.<br /><br />I was born and brought up in Brighton, and I have a normal Brighton accent, which is somewhere in the middle of a triangle whose points are a London accent, an East Sussex accent, and RP. In my case its probably nearer the London side of things. I use glottal stops in words like "glottal", and I even say "innit". And have done for over 50 years. And now I can read articles in the newspapers saying that my own accent was invented sometime in the 1980s.Ken Brownnoreply@blogger.com