tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post598318500446851419..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: types of schools, school yearslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38371616633136156662023-07-09T23:14:29.118+01:002023-07-09T23:14:29.118+01:00It sounds weird to my American ear to refer to a 6...It sounds weird to my American ear to refer to a 6/7 year old as an "infant." To me, "infant" is, like, not walking, still in diapers(/nappies?), unable to talk, etc.<br /><br />I personally, tend to think of it as "newborn" or close to, though I've heard it referred to as somewhere between "baby" and "toddler" before (in an American context).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5142025361857376752022-08-31T15:16:08.243+01:002022-08-31T15:16:08.243+01:00There is AP psychology; see https://apstudents.col...There is AP psychology; see https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/course-index-page for the full list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10745038241787644662022-01-27T13:03:17.892+00:002022-01-27T13:03:17.892+00:00If you cite it, you can refer to it! If you cite it, you can refer to it! lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10896958767065866512022-01-26T13:42:06.059+00:002022-01-26T13:42:06.059+00:00hi are you the one who has wrote the blog? just wo...hi are you the one who has wrote the blog? just wondering if i can use it in my assignment as references? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09604104015443407830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72241181810477864822022-01-12T17:59:58.229+00:002022-01-12T17:59:58.229+00:00Well, this was 50 years ago now.... Well, this was 50 years ago now.... Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-85032841023030296932022-01-12T17:59:01.685+00:002022-01-12T17:59:01.685+00:00Possibly not - this was, however, 50 years ago!Possibly not - this was, however, 50 years ago!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3683649911574999922022-01-11T22:42:37.182+00:002022-01-11T22:42:37.182+00:00yes, I'm afraid that, having experienced the U...yes, I'm afraid that, having experienced the UK education system for 22 years now, I would not exempt the A-level students from anything!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52961651702260707672022-01-11T22:28:33.370+00:002022-01-11T22:28:33.370+00:00Since you linked to this from a 2022 blog post.......Since you linked to this from a 2022 blog post.... many years ago now, I worked for an au pair agency in France which sent girls (it was always girls in those days) to the USA and to Britain. When asking for educational achievements, many had their French "baccalaureat", which was translated as "A levels" for English families, but as "Junior College" for American ones! And I believe British students going to an American university after A levels are excused the first year of their course. Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10172878043857840872018-05-02T09:24:29.243+01:002018-05-02T09:24:29.243+01:00Responding to Monty's prickly post of 8 March ...Responding to Monty's prickly post of 8 March 2011: In American usage, a college is a bachelor's degree-granting component of a university. The usage is a thousand years old in Europe and four hundred years old in North America. If Monty finds objectionable this lexical discrimination, he'd better take it up with the College de France, Balliol College, or Magdelen College. In the New World, Harvard College (still so designated within Harvard University) quite naturally and logically began as the College at New Town. Princeton was the College of New Jersey, Columbia was King's College, and Brown was the College of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. All of those places were founded in the Colonial Period (as we call it). To state or restate the obvious, American English is not English English, and nor is Australian. H.L. Mencken wrote a three-volume masterpiece about American English, which everyone should read (so said Alistair Cooke and so says Stephen Fry). In the present-day universities of Yale, Harvard, Brown, and Dartmouth (frequently misnamed Dartmouth University in careless journalism) one makes application, if one is seventeen years old, to The College, not the The University. Many public American universities have lately been founding Honors Colleges with special residential arrangements, to lure top applicants away from the Ivies and the Ivy peers. And then there is the important world of the American bachelor's-degree-only liberal arts college, exemplified by the Ivy-peer Amherst College and Williams College. So the college-university distinction is utile and well understood in the USA. At my Ivy League university, the many British undergraduate were in absolutely no distress about the distinction, colloquial or technical (but then they had to be really smart to get in).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59563835593934565412018-05-02T08:16:45.407+01:002018-05-02T08:16:45.407+01:00Several New England boarding schools of 19th-centu...Several New England boarding schools of 19th-century foundation still use forms, meaning grades, as well as other terms extracted from the British lexicon--housemaster, tuck shop, etc. I was a second former (through sixth former) some sixty years ago at my Connecticut school (Choate), and would still be so designated today (except that the second form was phased out in the 1960s). The most ferociously anglophile New England school is St. Paul's, which is Episcopal (Anglican) and calls its headmaster a rector. Mencken, a mock anglophobe, treats New England boarding school lexical anglophilia in his American Language, with particular attention paid to St. Paul's, Choate, and Groton. Other such schools are designedly idiosyncratic, with, for example, Hotchkiss inserting lower-middler and upper-middler between junior and senior.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1089925974905363812017-02-02T02:17:17.517+00:002017-02-02T02:17:17.517+00:00With a son who graduated from Brighton Uni quite r...With a son who graduated from Brighton Uni quite recently, I would like to add a couple of points about English university education <i>as I understand it</i> (so lots of hedge words; do check for yourself if any of this is relevant to you before you rely on it). (I can't speak for Wales and Northern Ireland, and I know Scotland is different - see comments above.)<br /><br />It is sometimes (often?) said that current educational standards are lower than in the unspecified past, and in particular that 'teaching to the test' does not produce students with the enquiring minds and thinking skills that uni learning needs. True or not, the first year at university will include consolidating (in practice re-teaching) parts of the relevant A-level subject but in a uni way, and will often also teach general skills such as statistics, relevant Microsoft Office programs, possibly remedial writing and possibly English, together with fairly soft introductory-level degree topics. Typically the results from the first year's (course work and) exams will govern whether a student is allowed to progress to the second year, required to repeat some or all of the first year, or asked to leave. Those results will not count towards the class of degree.<br /><br />The second and third years move onto the meat of the degree subject proper, and results do determine the eventual class of degree. Probably half of the third year of an honours degree is taken up with writing the dissertation, or completing a project for more practical subjects.<br /><br />For practical subjects some unis may offer optional 'sandwich degrees', which mean that students follow a four-year degree course but spend the third year working, sometimes paid, sometimes not, gaining practical experience at a relevant company or non-commercial organisation. They then return to uni for a fourth year, studying alongside third-year non-sandwich students who started uni a year later. Sandwich course students will generally submit a dissertation-equivalent placement report for an honours degree, relating their sandwich year experience to some elements of subject theory. Although such students graduate a year later than non-sandwich students, their practical experience and more impressive CVs can more than compensate for the delay in entering the workforce proper.<br /><br />Finally, most but not all English degree courses are three years (or four year sandwich). From students within my family I understand that architecture takes four, veterinary studies five and medicine six years (there are probably others), and practical experience may be necessary beyond the BA/BSc/MB etc to get full professional accreditation.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31844287439917073322014-11-12T11:20:26.683+00:002014-11-12T11:20:26.683+00:00Just to add to what dev0347 said about the Scottis...Just to add to what dev0347 said about the Scottish Education system, the high school years are now officially S1, S2, S3 etc.<br /><br />My children are currently in S4, but if I accidentally say "fourth year" to them, as it was in my day, they remind me that this is the 21st century and not the Stone Age.<br /><br />Also, not sure about the first two years at Scottish Uni being "general". I've only ever known of specific degree programmes where you are studying your chosen subject from the start. <br /><br />As a side issue, "school" in Scotland always used to require the definite article, e.g. "When I leave the school I'll go to college", or "my wee boy's just started the school". Sadly, this is really only heard from older folks now as our culture is increasingly swamped by others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21088735646615036262014-09-14T21:26:14.002+01:002014-09-14T21:26:14.002+01:00Laura: the verbs that go with exams can be found a...Laura: the verbs that go with exams can be found at this post: <br />http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.co.uk/2006/09/exam-was-sat.htmllynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34532418075864299062014-09-14T17:07:51.156+01:002014-09-14T17:07:51.156+01:00Lynne mentioned that in Canada we say "Grade ...Lynne mentioned that in Canada we say "Grade N" rather than "Nth grade". To add to the difference in naming, we don't use the terms freshman, sophomore, etc. for university as they do in the US (although I'm assuming most people know what they mean as a result of the prevalence of American tv and movies). University students say they're in "first year", "second year", etc.<br /><br />As an interesting other CanE/AmE distinction, when I was in university (in Canada) I told my American cousin that I had to write a test on a certain day. He was confused, because to him, only a teacher can write a test (e.g. actually compose the content of the exam). He said Americans would only ever use "take a test". I don't think "take" sounds odd in that context, but I don't think I'd ever use it. Is it just me, or is that a widespread difference between Canadian and American English? (Also, where would the Brits fit in? Do they always "sit" their exams, or do they also "write" or "take" them?)Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28845297857640208112014-05-04T19:35:17.412+01:002014-05-04T19:35:17.412+01:00I thought I'd add something people might find ...I thought I'd add something people might find interesting about becoming a doctor (of medicine) in UK. From my understanding in US you have to do a bachelors first as a pre-med and then enter medical school afterwards? In UK Medicine (and surgery) is a degree in itself which people enter after completing A-Levels they study it at university and it takes 5 years in most universities. Some universities offer a 2part degree where students do 3 years pre-clinical and then apply again to do 3 years clinical, this tends to be offered by more 'traditional' universities such as Oxford or Cambridge. At Liverpool university where I study we spend 4 years at unversity our final exams are in 4th year and we spend 5th year in hospital we become doctors when we pass our prescribing test and our SJT. Victorianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76993984982809459422012-11-18T18:09:55.572+00:002012-11-18T18:09:55.572+00:00The four undergraduate years at Trinity College Du...The four undergraduate years at Trinity College Dublin are:<br /><br />- junior freshman<br />- senior freshman<br />- junior sophister<br />- senior sophister<br /><br />Most other Irish universities have 3-year undergraduate programs in most larger faculties (Arts, Law and sometimes Commerce, Engineering and/or Science)mollymoolynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-81365290580601340612012-10-19T18:06:22.894+01:002012-10-19T18:06:22.894+01:00I attended an Catholic School k-8, we used to call...I attended an Catholic School k-8, we used to call it Parochial School when I went there, but now the call it Private/Catholic School.<br /><br />But in my hometown Elementary school is k-4 Middle school is 5 and 6, Junior High school 7 and 8, and then High School 9-12. And there are about 5 elementary schools and then only one of each of the other 3. Mainly because of over crowding is why they have a separate middle and junior high.Mindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78381848529577352862012-01-24T22:43:38.792+00:002012-01-24T22:43:38.792+00:00Having just been directed to this blog I felt comp...Having just been directed to this blog I felt compelled to add some clarifications as a British person who went to a private school.<br /><br />While it's good to know technical definitions, colloquial ones are probably more helpful for trying to understand what British people actually mean when they talk about public vs. private schools. In my experience, a "private school" is a generic term for a school that you pay to attend. These can be subdivided into "public schools", which are large in terms of grounds size and number of pupils, are usually boarding schools, are well-known nationally and have a reputation for producing what we'd call "toffs" - posh, snooty, upper-class people - although of course this is a stereotype. For example, Eton, Rugby and Harrow. However a "private school" may also mean an "independent school", which is much smaller and will probably only be known locally.<br /><br />"State schools" are schools funded by the state (as you'd expect). However, "grammar schools" are a special class of state school at which the teaching is generally considered to be of a standard equal to or better than private schools. You have to pass the 11+ to attend a grammar school so basically, if you went to grammar school, you're pretty smart. If the school you went to was a state-funded non-grammar, you'd probably just say you went to a state school or a local comprehensive; if you went to grammar school, you'd definitely say so.<br /><br />A prep(aratoy) school is usually a term for a private primary school, which usually goes up to age 13, as many public schools begin at age 13 rather than age 11 (independents, grammars and other state schools will usually begin at age 11).<br /><br />Additionally, with regards to the "old British" numbering system for school years, you will quite often see the first two years between ages 3 and 5 being called "Kindergarten/Nursery" and "Reception" and each successive form being called either "Lower" or "Upper" - ie. Year 1 = Lower First Form, Year 2 = Lower Second Form etc. This is why you end up with "Lower Sixth" and "Upper Sixth" at the end rather than Sixth and Seventh. If you're working this out you'll notice you end up with one too many forms somewhere - my school got around this with Year 5 = Lower Third, Year 6 = Remove (ie. the year you leave), Year 7 = Third Form and then it just carried on as normal, and I think this method is (or was) quite common. You'll still see this numbering in a lot of traditional private schools but many (such as mine) are moving more towards the Year 1, Year 2 numbering system so that when we talk to people in other schools they actually understand what year we're in. I think the traditional way is better though.<br /><br />Hope this is useful to someone!Carolinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38485654529527450102011-12-29T03:42:48.878+00:002011-12-29T03:42:48.878+00:00You're missing a few things in your discussion...You're missing a few things in your discussion of American schools.<br /><br />First, many schools run K - 8. (Or pre-k - 8, or preschool - 8.) Certainly that's the norm for parochial schools in NYC, and many of the more popular and successful public elementary schools are transitioning now to go through the 8th grade as well.<br /><br />Secondly, middle school and junior high, originally, weren't just different terms for the same school.<br /><br />At first, junior high was high school, but for younger students. You had your own classes, and they were taught separately by separate teachers.<br /><br />The middle school model gained a foothold in the middle of the last century on the grounds that kids in that age group need a transitional period from elementary school. So instead of going to your own classes, in a middle school you would spend most of the day with the students in your homeroom, and there's some degree of interdisciplinary teaching - that is, if you're learning about the civil war in history, you read about it in English as well, that sort of thing.<br /><br />Nowadays, of course, people use the terms interchangeably, but there's a very good reason that we have two different terms, and it's not just because one sounds better.<br /><br />And lastly, in many areas elementary school, intermediate school (as my local one was called), and high school each encompass 4 numbered grades, so middle school (or whatever) starts in the 5th grade and runs through the 8th. This seems to be the norm as well for private schools in NYC, at least, those that run from elementary school through high school.Conulynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4196476277207914702011-09-15T09:45:12.696+01:002011-09-15T09:45:12.696+01:00I'm from the west coast of Canada, and looking...I'm from the west coast of Canada, and looking at that chart was a little interesting. I see how the system of education here is very much an amalgum of the two shown. <br /><br />Here, Kindergarten is the first compuslory class, at age 5. Then comes 1st Grade. The grades run up to 12th (and out east there is a semi-optional 13th). Whether those grades are segregated into junior/middle school or simply elementary (or primary, both are used, varying from school to school) and high school (and I have seen a couple private schools that prefer the British "college") seems to vary by school district.<br /><br />Within BC there are many school districts, all with their own curriculums, but building within the framework of provincial legislation that governs the broad testing of students (pupils), inspiringly called "provincial exams." The final provincial exams are given at the end of 12th grade, in academic courses, with pupils taking at least 3 provincials. I believe English is the only compulsory exam at that level, with the other exams being Math(s), Science (separated into biology, physics and chemistry), Language (French and Spanish being most common).<br /><br />The jist is that we seem to graduate a year earlier than both systems, at 17.<br /><br />Our post-secondary system is quite american in structure, but I'm currently in the shallow end of that pool, so I'm not an expert.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65769124931123949002011-05-16T14:24:00.750+01:002011-05-16T14:24:00.750+01:00Thanks for that--it really enriches the picture.Thanks for that--it really enriches the picture.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18296049374840556362011-05-16T14:13:45.283+01:002011-05-16T14:13:45.283+01:00Scottish schools:
There are only two stages of sc...Scottish schools:<br /><br />There are only two stages of schooling in Scotland: primary school (ages 4/5 - 11/12) and secondary school (ages 11/12 - 17/18). <br /><br />Secondary school is known predominantly as high school or - colloquially - 'the high school'. (Nouns in Scottish often take on a definite article that isn't required, as in, "He's been sent to the jail".) <br /><br />We don't have grammar schools or middle schools or prep schools or sixth form colleges. <br /><br />State schools are either non-denominational or Roman Catholic. Private schools are mostly non-denomination, but there are a couple of Catholic ones.<br /><br />School starts each year in mid-August and children begin at age 4.5 to 5.5. Age based recruitment is from something strange like March in the year of starting school to end Feb the following year (i.e. in Spring term of p1).<br /><br />It is compulsory to take four years of secondary school, even if you turn 16 in that year.<br /><br />Primary 1<br />Primary 2<br />Primary 3<br />Primary 4<br />Primary 5<br />Primary 6<br />Primary 7<br /><br />First year<br />Second year<br />Third year <br />Fourth year<br />Fifth year<br />Sixth year<br /><br />The short form is P or S. So, you start school in P1 and take your standard grades in Third or Fourth year (S3/4).<br /><br />There's no application process for schools in the way there is in England. Unless you specifically ask otherwise (it will go to a panel at the local council's education department for a decision), you will be assigned your local school of your religious preference. Neither parents nor schools can pick and choose.<br /><br />Also, *British* degrees are not 3 years, but English, Welsh and Northern Irish are. <br /><br />Scottish undergraduate degrees in named subjects take <strong>four</strong> years. Your first two years are generalist and then you study a specific subject in third and fourth year. Most universities operate a system that allows you to study about a quarter of your third/fourth year credits outwith your chosen topic so, in that way, it's somewhat similar to the American system of selecting a minor.<br /><br />You can take a three-year BA or BSc, but it's known as an Ordinary degree and is entirely generalist, made of of 1st and 2nd year classes, with no subject specialism. Rightly or wrongly, they are viewed in the way that an American might view a junior college (associate) degree.<br /><br />Some Scottish universities also allow you to go straight from your second undergraduate year into Masters studies, but that's a separate level of complexity not required for our purposes.dev0347http://twitter.com/dev0347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25793050795159902312011-03-10T20:58:49.938+00:002011-03-10T20:58:49.938+00:00There is a difference between colleges and univers...There is a difference between colleges and universities in the US, it's just not the same one as in the UK. Universities can give (post)graduate degrees. Colleges give Associates' (2-year) or Bachelors' (4-year) degrees. <br /><br />So, people who say they went to college in the US are saying they had an undergraduate education. (But we still don't say 'go to university' for (post)graduate degrees--then we go to 'grad school', which was the topic that got this all started--click the link at the start of this entry to see.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61006129265795409442011-03-08T04:39:36.510+00:002011-03-08T04:39:36.510+00:00One thing that I find rather weird is the US use o...One thing that I find rather weird is the US use of "college" as a synonym for "university". In other English usage the point is precisely that there is a distinction between college and university. They are not the same. <br /><br />In Britain and the Commonwealth only universities grant degrees. Colleges do not and can not.<br /><br />To non-US ears "college degree" is an oxymoron.<br /><br />I was in a restaurant in Kuala Lumpur. The next table was filled with young, Malaysian women. I happened to overhear one of them say, "She said she was going to 'college'. When Americans say 'college', they mean uni, don't they?"<br /><br />Exactly right.<br /><br />This has just been brought on, again, by my reading a survey of how many Americans of various ages and sexes have "college degrees".<br /><br />In our (Commonweaslth) usage a college is either a school, usually a private secondary (high) school, or it is a technical or trade (craft) school that trains people at a post secondary level but not to a degree, eg secretarial college, technical college, art college, hairdressing college, etc, or it is a part of a university that follows a collegial system, ie divides itself into colleges. In a collegial university (Oxford and Cambridge are examples) teaching is done in colleges but the degrees are granted only by the university.<br /><br />So, when an American asks me what "college" I went to my answer is that I didn't. I went to university.Montynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69472047037969285242011-02-16T00:54:31.781+00:002011-02-16T00:54:31.781+00:00@Natalia
I am familiar with undergraduate educati...@Natalia<br /><br />I am familiar with undergraduate education at both a UK university and a US one (Oxford/Stanford).<br /><br />Based on my own personal experience, I would say that the UK approach may be superior for an undergraduate who is very self-sufficient, already knows exactly what he/she wants to do with his/her life and wants to get there as quickly as possible.<br /><br />The US approach probably works better for most other people, because it is far more structured in terms of pastoral care and general education, and allows much more freedom to choose one's major/course of study.<br /><br />I know that, if I had the ability to do it all over again, I would definitely choose Stanford over Oxford for my undergraduate studies.<br /><br />A few years ago (such as when I studied there), the UK universities had the advantage of being considerably cheaper, but that may not be the case in future.<br /><br />I can't say much yet about pre-university eductation: my daughter isn't even in kindergarten here (in the US) yet :)vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.com