tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post6981545888638800555..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: gritting, salting and blizzardslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24445088553184752792020-08-16T14:02:41.324+01:002020-08-16T14:02:41.324+01:00BrE When we get enough snow in the U.K. to cause d...BrE When we get enough snow in the U.K. to cause disruption, the government and local authorities are always criticised for being unprepared (not enough snowploughs, not enough grit (which contains a fair percentage of rock salt)). The criticisms are usually countered with statistics that give the most probable requirements for grit, snowploughs etc. + reasonable margin for error, and the cost to the public in maintaining more than these levels. Does anyone else see the parallel here with “normal” numbers of hospital ventilators compared to the numbers needed during the Covid19 pandemic.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4503145199409775272019-12-18T21:00:17.101+00:002019-12-18T21:00:17.101+00:00One of your much more recent posts sent me back to...One of your much more recent posts sent me back to this article, and we just had a blizzard a couple weeks ago in the Black Hills of South Dakota. So, to give some real world context to the official US Weather Service definition, our recent blizzard started with freezing drizzle which turned to snow by Friday night. The winds kicked up overnight Friday and continued Saturday into the evening, with gusts between 45 and 60 mph, so lasting close to 24 hours. We got about 15 inches of snow in town, which is heavier than a lot of storms, but because of the wind it drifted, leaving some areas bare to the ground and others with deep drifts.<br /><br />While the official description may call for only 3 hours, I honestly can't really remember a blizzard that hasn't lasted at least 6 or 7, and 12 to 24 is far more common. And all blizzards have gusting winds, 35 must be the speed that is expected the wind will be unlikely to drop below, but the wind speeds will be very uneven throughout with numerous gusts above this.<br /><br />For the record, I'm in Rapid City, South Dakota. Dark Star in the Morninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312003791405491874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11887604490335052332018-02-27T15:11:28.057+00:002018-02-27T15:11:28.057+00:00My thinking too.My thinking too.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12484093725973044711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75562806659736375462017-02-21T21:19:03.983+00:002017-02-21T21:19:03.983+00:00Visiting this thread years later specifically for ...Visiting this thread years later specifically for this issue.<br /><br />IME, in most of the US "grit" is rarely used as a noun. There's "gritty" as an adjective, "200-grit (or whatever) sandpaper", and a few set phrases like "grit in the gears", but not really "grit" by itself. (With a possible exception for subject-area jargon like "bird grit".)<br /><br />Instead we have "(adjective) sand" (fine, coarse, playground, etc.) or "(adjective) gravel" (pea, fine, all-purpose, bird, etc.) And then there are pebbles and crushed rock, which I would take to be a bit larger.<br /><br />I noticed this difference while listening to a diorama maker's podcast that showed what I would have called "sand" or "fine gravel" and referred to it as "grit", which struck me as entirely foreign to my idiolect.Doug Sundsethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12416285410276713188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13195123033646212052012-08-25T16:44:40.094+01:002012-08-25T16:44:40.094+01:00The worst hazard here in Britain is the couple of ...The worst hazard here in Britain is the couple of inches of snow that melts and then freezes hard. This is a nightmare compared to which walking on packed snow is a delight (packed snow seems to me easier to negotiate than stretches of pavement that have been cleared.<br /><br />The callout reports of the Lake District mountain rescue teams are instructive. While the high fells aren't exactly Dinali (the highest fails to make 1,000 m), lives are lost on them with depressing regularity especially in bad winter weather (anybody who says Britain doesn't have proper blizzards has never been caught on Sharp Edge in a snowstorm). Mostly it's people who aren't properly dressed ("boots" in this context does not mean those made by Ugg, as too many victims thought) or properly equipped (the GPS app on your iPhone is no substitute for map and compass and the ability to use them).enitharmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829757748223670291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80421840322970766442012-08-25T16:15:21.585+01:002012-08-25T16:15:21.585+01:00That's one of the things I really miss about U...That's one of the things I really miss about Upstate NY, real snow every winter, snow you wade in up to your knees and further. Isn't Syracuse supposed to be the world's snowiest city because of the lake effect?<br /><br />At the time you were posting this, Lynne, there was a satellite photograph circulating on the internet showing the whole of Britain covered in white. Well, not quite all. This little corner, where it seldom snows much, showed through as one patch of green and brown!enitharmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829757748223670291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4490986069790173652010-03-16T03:09:58.224+00:002010-03-16T03:09:58.224+00:00The UK definition doesn't involve persisting f...The UK definition doesn't involve persisting for three hours.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10811804810617846992010-03-16T02:58:11.096+00:002010-03-16T02:58:11.096+00:00It's very late to comment, but I don't see...It's very late to comment, but I don't see why the Met Office definition is weaker than the US one.<br /><br />The Met Office says mean wind speed of 30mph; the US will accept frequent gusts of 35mph, which would probably be a lower mean speed than 30mph. The Met Office say 200m visibility, the US definition says 250m.<br /><br />Obviously the British use the term 'blizzard' for situations that in Buffalo would be described as 'isn't it a nice day for January', but apart from specifying a minimum duration the official US definitions seem weaker if anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87164791633370342332010-02-09T18:40:54.765+00:002010-02-09T18:40:54.765+00:00Its a late comment - but we really did have a bliz...Its a late comment - but we really did have a blizzard once in Brighton, on 8th December 1967. Visibility was very low at the worst of it, possibly less than 10m, we really couldn't see a lighted shop window on one side of the street from the other. Actual whiteout briefly. <br /><br />I know, I was there, in Woodingdean, with my brother, trying to walk to a friend's house from school - we knew we wouldn't be able to make it back to our own house.<br /><br />I suspect that these days they wouldn't have made us leave the school - though to be fair conditions were so bad that the teachers might not have realised how bad.Ken Brownhttp://ken.wibsite.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72876559034817220962010-01-24T09:42:30.855+00:002010-01-24T09:42:30.855+00:00"- Keep your weight leaning slightly forward:..."- Keep your weight leaning slightly forward: You would much rather fall forward than backward."<br /><br />I was always taught very firmly that while you lean forwards instinctively, should you fall you should try to move your butt under you and SIT.<br /><br />Except for a few notable spills when I couldn't manage this (I was a very klutzy kid and it took me until I was grown and then some to overcome it) I've always done that and it works about as well as you can hope.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-20534637926975930422010-01-24T01:27:04.937+00:002010-01-24T01:27:04.937+00:00I live in the southern US where we mostly get ice,...I live in the southern US where we mostly get ice, not snow."Black ice," really clear,is very hard to spot. It's embarrassing to someone who has lived in a snowier area to watch major cities slam closed with 1/2 inch of snow, but the huge increase in accidents justifies this. We sand, not salt; I wasn't aware that de-icing sand had any salt.Ceeceenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60641288606206654782010-01-22T09:25:23.194+00:002010-01-22T09:25:23.194+00:00@Elizabeth: to get salt for his stairs …
That st...@Elizabeth: <i>to get salt for his stairs …</i> <br /><br />That stairs/steps thing there, I couldn't work out at first, as a BrE speaker, why your friend would be putting salt on his stairs, which to me would always be INSIDE the house.Terry Collmannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36722749047771064692010-01-22T07:25:41.136+00:002010-01-22T07:25:41.136+00:00here in Ohio, USA, our top court held that people ...here in Ohio, USA, our top court held that people accept the risks inherent in traveling in ice and snow, and the property owner can't be encumbered with laws to protect visitors from all risk. courts here have also found owners liable if their shoveling is determined to increase the risk rather than decrease it. still all big cities and many towns do have laws requiring snow removal, though they have little means of enforcement.<br /><br />cincinnati, ohio, prepares for snow before it arrives by spreading some sort of brine solution they call "beet juice."<br /><br />snow shovels here also include a ones with a concave blade they call a "snow pusher" which i'm sure you all can imagine how they work.DyNamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16116764991257404679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62563363996611272522010-01-20T22:36:30.059+00:002010-01-20T22:36:30.059+00:00@MrsRedboots
That's a myth, I'm afraid! ...@MrsRedboots<br /><br />That's a myth, I'm afraid! I'd never come across it before this winter but I've heard a LOT of people saying it this year and it just isn't true. The Institute for Health and Safety are <a href="http://www.iosh.co.uk/news_and_events/news/latest_news_releases/01_-_good_neighbourliness.aspx" rel="nofollow">telling people it's okay to shovel</a>, even if they are then being misreported. And even the Association for Personal Injury Lawyers, who you'd assume would want to find any reason to sue, said that <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jan/09/questions-big-freeze-consumer-rights" rel="nofollow">you do not invite any extra liability </a>that wouldn't have existed had you done nothing and left the snow on the ground. The only circumstance in which you might invite a claim was if you acted completely unreasonably, and somehow created a new latent hazard that had not existed before your actions.<br /><br />So next time it snows, no excuse not to get out and get shovelling!Roshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02669423378438380019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6042844590847886252010-01-19T18:45:31.866+00:002010-01-19T18:45:31.866+00:00@Harry Campbell: AmE can certainly call the materi...@Harry Campbell: AmE can certainly call the material 'grit'. But we don't use it much with reference to abrasives used to go on ice. The 'grit' they use around here is usually not just small particles of rock/dirt, but also salt, and the 'sand' used in the US often has all sorts of things mixed in--so neither of the words in reference to snow/ice traction refers _exactly_ and _just_ to the natural material.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60207710800928787222010-01-19T15:51:46.095+00:002010-01-19T15:51:46.095+00:00Joe1959, I said they can sue if you don't clea...Joe1959, I said they can sue if you <b>don't</b> clear the path and they have a legal right to be on it. :)<br /><br />I think it's all very silly anyway, if no one's bothering to clear the pavements why complain about a few extra feet of icy terrain to navigate?Solohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09740368155249391858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12653680529813424642010-01-19T15:24:39.732+00:002010-01-19T15:24:39.732+00:00@Zhoen: I live in Utah, but grew up in Idaho and ...@Zhoen: I live in Utah, but grew up in Idaho and Wyoming where winters are much more severe. I joke that Utah is the tropics. However, 20 miles east of my house in the valleys east of the Wasatch Mountains it's much colder and snowier. So it's not just in the ski resorts that Utah gets good snow.<br /><br />We do get good storms, however. In the 80's we had a 3 day storm with both falling snow and strong winds. When our town was finally able to plow a single lane through the streets, the snow drifts were higher than the school buses.<br /><br />For me, one of the major points of walking in snow is that you keep your feet under your body center and fairly flat on the ground. So again, smaller steps.PWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29638345470041405932010-01-19T15:02:10.400+00:002010-01-19T15:02:10.400+00:00So thinking about what I wrote there, grit in the ...So thinking about what I wrote there, grit in the non-road sense can be just as fine as sand, but it's "nasty" disruptive sand that doesn't lie around visibly in attractive drifts but lurks waiting to abrade things. No wonder a dish called "grits" sounds so unappealing.Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7180685401836054302010-01-19T14:23:43.219+00:002010-01-19T14:23:43.219+00:00So going back to the original linguistic point, wh...So going back to the original linguistic point, what do Americans call grit in the literal sense, in or outside the context of snow? Ie, "sharp" (non-rounded), abrasive, crushed particles coarser than sand but finer than gravel, which is small pebbles. Is there no other word than sand or dirt? Is "sand" a more specific concept in BrE? <br /><br />Grit is what you get when rock is ground down by whatever mechanism; you often find it on roads at all times of year. You could get grit in your eye or the mechanism of something such as a bike chain or brakes without going anywhere near places sand is found (deserts, beaches, sandpits etc). Unlike sand it's not something you ever experience with pleasure; it has its uses in winter but is usually a nasty thing, and perhaps feels more like the coarser cousin of dust than of sand.<br /><br />I can't see anything in dictionaries to imply a (usu)BrE/AmE difference in "grit" but that doesn't prove much.Harry Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01675794936870568336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62806411913105097642010-01-19T13:13:10.356+00:002010-01-19T13:13:10.356+00:00"Oh and if someone slips on your path because..."Oh and if someone slips on your path because you haven't cleared it and it's either a public right of way or they have a legal reason to be on your property (postman for instance) then they can sue."<br /><br />Well, they can try, but surely the onus will then be on them to prove that clearing the path made matters worse than leaving it uncleared?<br /><br />Until they were repealed as part of the 1982 Civic Government (Scotland) Act, most Scottish towns and cities had bye laws (BrE) [I think the AmE equivalent is "local ordinances"?] requiring citizens to clear the pavements outside their homes or business. I for one wish that were still the case!Joe1959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40502367292823010722010-01-19T13:11:29.295+00:002010-01-19T13:11:29.295+00:00@Solo: no heat involved in a snow-blower...they j...@Solo: no heat involved in a snow-blower...they just move snow. Like a leaf-blower in that way but either pushed like a lawn-mower or ridden like a ride-on mower/little tractor.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5444137762186297442010-01-19T11:42:43.404+00:002010-01-19T11:42:43.404+00:00P.S. Of course you're not elderly. That's ...P.S. Of course you're not elderly. That's the term for old people who your [i.e. my] parents think are old.Solohttp://inthesilverlining.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58627610668460263302010-01-19T11:41:18.416+00:002010-01-19T11:41:18.416+00:00Oh and if someone slips on your path because you h...Oh and if someone slips on your path because you <i>haven't</i> cleared it and it's either a public right of way or they have a legal reason to be on your property (postman for instance) then they can sue.Solohttp://www.inthesilverlining.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65408858436528574852010-01-19T11:39:16.962+00:002010-01-19T11:39:16.962+00:00Thanks for the links. It basically amounts to: Be ...Thanks for the links. It basically amounts to: Be careful and try not to slip on the slippy bits. But I'm far more likely to heed such advice when the Grauniad tells me so.<br /><br />I didn't mean paths need clearing in North America because the consistency was different, they were two unrelated thoughts. I did think our last batch was a lot more like the type of snow I'd expect to see across the water though- much more dry and powdery therefore far easier to walk on and better suited to snow men/balls/angels.<br /><br />That's a very American thing, snow angels. Is there a post about them? I could probably look for myself. So, snow blowers? A hot air blower for moving snow with? It doesn't sound very useful unless the snow has settled very lightly indeed. Or is it more of an industrial hairdryer that melts the offending precipitation. That might have a similar effect to that found recently when hapless Brits poured boiling water over their pathways to clear them. Result? Utterly unpredictably it was perfectly camoflagued sheet ice.<br /><br />I say sheet ice, it was actually slightly curved on top, which is far worse in my opinion. Is there a word for that kind of surface? Not quite lvel but almost utterly without friction. If anyone knows it's you lot.Solohttp://inthesilverlining.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35859853067573661012010-01-19T11:06:47.534+00:002010-01-19T11:06:47.534+00:00"if you clear the public pavement and someone..."if you clear the public pavement and someone slips and falls over, they can sue you"<br /><br />I'm not sure that they can. It has recently been suggested that they <i>might</i> be able to, which is not quite the same thing - but in a paranoid, "risk averse" age it's a good enough excuse for doing nothing (always handy to have an argument for inaction!).Sir Watkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000106556898498656noreply@blogger.com