tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post7011536250068233936..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: agentive suffixes: -er and -or, and a little on grey/graylynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-39018801367980707682013-10-18T04:32:40.878+01:002013-10-18T04:32:40.878+01:00For me both advisor/adviser mean basically the sam...For me both advisor/adviser mean basically the same thing it boils down to the root word advise. Yes one does look better as far as spelling goes but that is only a trivial matter. In response to Freddy 'er' does come from a German background whereas 'or' is Latin. The Romans first invaded Britain they spoke Latin later Britain was invaded by the Germans (Saxons, Jutes & Angles). Seeing that Britain was invaded by both Latin and German speakers will account for both 'or' & 'er' being used in the English language.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09792003813868142988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40647917249341296782012-06-27T13:10:07.340+01:002012-06-27T13:10:07.340+01:00UK newspapers generally change original spellings ...UK newspapers generally change original spellings to suit their own style book--something that drives Americans in the UK a bit crazy, since they change the names of organizations and places to suit the newspaper's style too.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28652547125573194022012-06-27T13:06:23.305+01:002012-06-27T13:06:23.305+01:00There was recently a mini-scandal in Britain over ...There was recently a mini-scandal in Britain over a character named <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Werritty" rel="nofollow">Adam Werrity</a>. Werrity, a personal friend of the then Defence Secretary Liam Fox, seemed to be using his friendship illicitly for personal gain: the episode ended with Fox being forced to resign.<br /><br />One of Werrity's sins was to hand out a very official-looking business card describing himself as <a href="http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02021/werrity-card_2021483c.jpg" rel="nofollow">"Advisor"</a> to Fox, even though he held no such formal title.<br /><br />What's interesting, for the purposes of this discussion, is the extreme reluctance of many British media outlets to entertain the "advisor" spelling, <i>even when explicitly quoting a source (the business card) that used it</i> -- examples include <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/04/liam-fox-national-security-threat" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.channel4.com/news/liam-fox-quizzed-about-friends-access-to-mod" rel="nofollow">here</a>. <br /><br />This, by itself, might be considered due to general sloppiness, perhaps combined with autocorrect. Some bloggers, however, created parody business cards, generally resembling the original but with the blogger's name substituted for Werrity's. <a href="http://orderorder.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/guidofawkesfox.jpg" rel="nofollow">Here's</a> an example. Even such parodies, which generally rely on a close resemblance to the original to create their effect, "corrected" the spelling to "advisor".<br /><br />This suggests to me that there is a great degree of discomfort in Britain with the "advisor" spelling.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-82938436197420161502012-06-27T02:38:59.615+01:002012-06-27T02:38:59.615+01:00It was cheeky :) More in the vein of making fun of...It was cheeky :) More in the vein of making fun of the English language's idiosyncrasies than AmE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10971513461116497022012-06-27T00:12:38.257+01:002012-06-27T00:12:38.257+01:00Hard to tell if that's a cheeky question or an...Hard to tell if that's a cheeky question or an ignorant one! American English uses -ize just in the places where the Oxford English Dictionary does. -ize is not an Americanism.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32655050228643946572012-06-26T16:40:51.483+01:002012-06-26T16:40:51.483+01:00I prefer "adviser" but have got[ten] use...I prefer "adviser" but have got[ten] used to "advisor" over the years. But can I be cheeky and ask you, as an American, why you don't write "advizer"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38984305673297724512011-10-27T07:53:13.897+01:002011-10-27T07:53:13.897+01:00Actually, "-er" is not the only suffix u...Actually, "-er" is not the only suffix used, words stolen elsewhere have different endings: Diktator, Akteur, Editor. But yes, "common german words" only seem to use -er as agent suffix.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26614748194612761662011-06-29T20:06:17.017+01:002011-06-29T20:06:17.017+01:00Regarding "promisor", I've also seen...Regarding "promisor", I've also seen it "promissor";<br /><br />I understand the differences stated here between -or and -er; definitely agree that -er is more of a Germanic ending where -or fits Latin derivates better.<br /><br />Sorcerer only sticks as "proper" since I've seen it that way.<br /><br />And "Old-Fashioned"? As long as we can keep equivalence, bring it on/bring it back. This new world weighs heavily upon my weary soul...<br /><br />:)Greywolfhttp://soundchaser.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64932745951156210922011-06-29T19:43:16.956+01:002011-06-29T19:43:16.956+01:00I always associated grey with things of a living n...I always associated grey with things of a living nature, or of a gentler tone (I typically describe animal coats as being "grey" when it applies (i.e. they're obviously not red, brown, purple, or other non-grey colours); a light desaturated sky would be grey.<br /><br />On the other hand, gray describes things such as cement, concrete (especially buildings in big cities), foreboding skies (though "dark grey" still holds greater appeal to my aesthetic sense), metal (steel gray), and that area in discussion between black and white.<br /><br />Additionally, I'm a USer but I much prefer the CWE spellings, as well as the UK constructs and compositional styles. They're much more engaging than most US writings.Greywolfhttp://soundchaser.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27396487746314825212009-12-17T15:18:28.252+00:002009-12-17T15:18:28.252+00:00German really only uses -er. Could there be a conn...German really only uses -er. Could there be a connection to English here? Maybe so. I see -or endings as more "French".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13643694507884065292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88684197559656474112009-03-08T11:29:00.000+00:002009-03-08T11:29:00.000+00:00As far as I'm concerned, "adviser" is just a missp...As far as I'm concerned, "adviser" is just a misspelling. Unfortunately, it's also the preferred house style for the publishers I proofread for. So it's also a word that makes me see red, splutter to myself, and bite my tongue. I occasionally have a little rant in the margin, which goes un-acted-upon but makes me feel better.<BR/><BR/>"Sorceror" looks so much better (and feels better to write) that I'm not surprised it's a common misspelling. I've got to remind myself every time I write it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3851516712343839892007-10-19T23:42:00.000+01:002007-10-19T23:42:00.000+01:00Re: adviser/advisor. Personally, i always use "ad...Re: adviser/advisor. Personally, i always use "advisor," for reasons i can't quite fathom right now. Profesionally, i'm in an interesting position. I do proofreading for the employee newspaper at a large research university. Because we're a news publication, we follow AP style, which, as Dan Puckett points out above, requires "adviser." On the other hand, a quick search for each spelling on the university's website shows that "advisor" is used on campus websites ~72% of the time. In doing my proofreading each week, i need to keep a sign on my desk reminding me which spelling to use, otherwise i'd correct my correction right into an error.chris.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18140000097215409495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27826083707607985432007-10-16T17:11:00.000+01:002007-10-16T17:11:00.000+01:00Another pair: Sorcerer and sorceror. The latter i...Another pair: Sorcerer and sorceror. The latter is often (usually?) thought to be a mere misspelling, but it seems common enough that it should be considered a minor spelling variation instead. ("sorcerer -sorceror" = 2450K GHits; "sorceror -sorcerer" = 384K GHits) I'll leave speculation about the reasons for the populatity of this error/variation to someone with more linguistic knowledge than I have.<BR/><BR/>"Mentor" occasioned some considerable discussion at volokh.com a few weeks ago. Specifically, there were some who objected remarkably strongly to construing (parsing? 8-) the "-or" as a suffix and creating "mentee". (See <A HREF="http://www.volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_08_19-2007_08_25.shtml#1187980335" REL="nofollow">here</A>).Doug Sundsethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848091504066560951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60281913790554943852007-10-16T11:01:00.000+01:002007-10-16T11:01:00.000+01:00Ahem, One more UK/US difference: conjuror/conjurer...Ahem, One more <B>UK/US</B> difference: conjuror/conjurerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25588831274583420152007-10-16T10:59:00.000+01:002007-10-16T10:59:00.000+01:00One more US/UK difference: conjuror/conjurer (tend...One more US/UK difference: <B>conjuror/conjurer</B> (tendency, not absolute).<BR/>Looks like the technical <B>adaptor</B> spelling is mostly UK and losing ground.<BR/><BR/>More <I>-or</I> technical/<I>-er</I> general pairs: the Law terms <B>promisor</B> and <B>grantor</B>.<BR/><BR/>Interestingly, MW prefers <B>assigner</B> while AHD prefers <B>assignor</B>.<BR/><BR/>Another non-Latin <I>-or</I>: <B>bettor</B>.<BR/><BR/>That's it, I'm done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4946307846478426552007-10-15T21:12:00.000+01:002007-10-15T21:12:00.000+01:00As someone who edits 'advisor' and 'adviser' (as i...As someone who edits 'advisor' and 'adviser' (as in 'a Student Advisor'), I see the -or ending as denoting the more concrete form (proper subject). The -er ending is simply descriptive, as in 'The Student Advisor is an adviser to students'.Wordshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07120147558061119469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24733981334089721162007-10-15T16:59:00.000+01:002007-10-15T16:59:00.000+01:00my organization went from using advisor to addvise...my organization went from using advisor to addviser and back (the staff advises small businesses) (AmE)Roger Owen Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05298172138307632062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87669864768376245882007-10-15T12:24:00.000+01:002007-10-15T12:24:00.000+01:00The Oxford Guide To English Usage, section 1.35.5:...The <I>Oxford Guide To English Usage</I>, section 1.35.5:<BR/>A functional distinction is made between -or and -er in the following: <BR/>* <B>accepter</B> one who accepts / <B>acceptor</B> (in scientific use) <BR/>* <B>adapter</B> one who adapts / <B>adaptor</B> electrical device <BR/>* <B>caster</B> one who casts ; casting machine / <B>castor</B> beaver; plant giving oil; sugar (sprinkler); wheel <BR/>* <B>censer</B> vessel for incense / <B>censor</B> official <BR/>* <B>conveyer</B> one who conveys / <B>conveyor</B> device <BR/>* <B>resister</B> one who resists / <B>resistor</B> electrical device <BR/>* <B>sailer</B> ship of specified power / <B>sailor</B> seaman <BR/><BR/>Of these, AHD and MWC10 seem to prefer "caster" over "castor" for the sugar and wheel senses. <A HREF="http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutspelling/castorsugar?view=uk" REL="nofollow">Oxford says, re: sugar,</A> "Both are right. The spelling castor sugar used to be the prevailing one, but caster sugar seems to be more usual now, perhaps because it is used by some sugar manufacturers on their packaging."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44559366358538095162007-10-15T11:26:00.000+01:002007-10-15T11:26:00.000+01:00I've been in exactly the same shoes as your psycho...I've been in exactly the same shoes as your psychologist colleague when it comes to "distracter" vs. "distractor", used in a technical sense as mentioned above.<BR/><BR/>My own strong preference was to use "distractor", until we started to publish some of this work and found that every reviewer and editor of our first manuscript thought this was completely incorrect. Since then we've stuck with "distracter", but we are definitely in the minority: (for the particular task we have been using there are only ~140 google hits for "picture-word interference" distracter versus ~1100 for "picture-word interference" distractor).<BR/><BR/>But now "distracter" seems just fine to me in this context; I no longor prefor "distractor".<BR/><BR/>Advisor/adviser: I use these in the same way as John Cowan and others who commented above.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2259669669627352792007-10-15T08:45:00.000+01:002007-10-15T08:45:00.000+01:00Advisor is a misspelling, stemming from the correc...Advisor is a misspelling, stemming from the correct spelling advisory. I think eventually we are going to have to wave the flag on this. But not yet.Paul Wigginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12815833510152809238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13059702524967634582007-10-15T05:14:00.000+01:002007-10-15T05:14:00.000+01:00Echoing Julia B., I think that the -or version is ...Echoing Julia B., I think that the -or version is more likely to be used in a situation where it has a specific technical meaning, while the -er version is more general, used as a descriptor rather than as a specific, designated term (if you see what I mean). <BR/><BR/>Going back to Lynn's original example, I think it's no accident that this query about "distractor" came from a psychologist. In experimental psychology, "distractors" are used all the time (they are task-irrelevant stimuli in an experiment that the person has to ignore), and are described as such in Methods sections. It has become a technical term. Whereas "distracter" might be used to describe, I dunno, a cell phone while you're driving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14497316955919534472007-10-14T19:24:00.000+01:002007-10-14T19:24:00.000+01:00Good point on sailor. (Sailer is also a legal spe...Good point on <I>sailor</I>. (<I>Sailer</I> is also a legal spelling in Scrabble, if anyone cares.)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35025607645037854172007-10-14T16:09:00.000+01:002007-10-14T16:09:00.000+01:00There are some non-Latin words with '-or': 'sailor...There are some non-Latin words with '-or': 'sailor' displaced 'sailer' for no good reason.<BR/><BR/>I (Irish) would <I>never</I> use 'gray', except in surnames, where 'Gray' seems to predominate over 'Grey'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12227560134872092312007-10-14T12:14:00.000+01:002007-10-14T12:14:00.000+01:00As an American newspaper copy editor, I always mak...As an American newspaper copy editor, I always make it "adviser," which is Associated Press style. The same goes for "gray," except that the dog is a greyhound.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-48239258439848283162007-10-14T09:19:00.000+01:002007-10-14T09:19:00.000+01:00What do you do if, like me, you start finding that...What do you do if, like me, you start finding that advisor and adviser both look WRONG? I have to say my preference is for advisor, which I find looks slightly less wrong.<BR/><BR/>Lynne, you have also here, I think, explained to me why in another post the other day I automatically typed "bloviator" rather than "bloviater." Then again, it also is an awful lot like aviator, which would equally explain that, I suppose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com