tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post7479342713407685440..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: carts and trolleyslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15550464088875423522020-08-06T21:18:40.834+01:002020-08-06T21:18:40.834+01:00BrE. I seemed to recall that it was spelled with a...BrE. I seemed to recall that it was spelled with a c in Dickens. I’ve just looked it up, and it’s in David Copperfield (p446 in the online version I found, spoken by Mr. Omer). However, from the context, it seems to be a kind of wheelchair.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56554689580735235972019-04-24T17:39:05.643+01:002019-04-24T17:39:05.643+01:00It's 'dump' in AmE. Thanks for all you...It's 'dump' in AmE. Thanks for all your comments!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13625529140265636082019-04-24T17:25:13.960+01:002019-04-24T17:25:13.960+01:00BrE,Scot, mid 60s. At the time of writing, the U.K...BrE,Scot, mid 60s. At the time of writing, the U.K. is still (though not for much longer) part of Europe. To the above list I would add Manchester, Sheffield and Edinburgh, although I’m sure there are more.<br /><br />In AmE, where do garbage trucks discharge their contents? In most of the U.K., it is the tip, or occasionally still, the dump. In the Scots dialect, it used to be the cowp. Cowp can also mean knock over, often with the sense of knock over and spill contents. The vehicle that took rubbish to the tip was the cowp cairt (cairt = cart).Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15010322955646588422017-02-13T00:39:36.836+00:002017-02-13T00:39:36.836+00:00The OED reports a technical difference among those...The OED reports a technical difference among those who specialise in load-carrying vehicles. For them, a <i>cart</i> has two wheels; a four-wheeled vehicle is called a <i>waggon</i>. <br /><br />(Wikipedia says '<i>wagon</i> or <i>dray</i>'. But the OED distinguishes a <i>dray</i> as a waggon without built-up sides.)<br /><br />Clearly this distinction is not rigidly applied in popular speech, yet many of the so-called <i>carts</i> that I can think of are/were two-wheeled and hauled by horses. I suspect that the first vehicles to be called <i>dustcarts</i> were of this pattern.<br /><br />When we lived in Egypt (forty years ago), household rubbish was collected on two-wheeled donkey-carts like <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fl7.alamy.com%2Fzooms%2F4f14a37705a7408aa4c8858f3bd684c4%2Fzabaleen-trash-collectors-on-their-donkey-cart-in-cairo-egypt-c8a093.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fstock-photo%2Fwaste-collectors.html&docid=otF58ay5Cb5_JM&tbnid=jUKyWLkkcG33UM%3A&vet=1&w=640&h=445&client=safari&bih=915&biw=1655&q=Egypt%20zabala%20rubbish%20cart&ved=0ahUKEwjo0eqC6ovSAhUmJMAKHUZRDwsQMwgbKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8" rel="nofollow">this</a><br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8995358686067735992017-02-12T16:42:15.131+00:002017-02-12T16:42:15.131+00:00Kate, what picture do you see when someone says go...Kate, what picture do you see when someone says <i>going to hell in a handcart</i>?David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86171236449939762052017-02-11T09:56:41.307+00:002017-02-11T09:56:41.307+00:00To me (BrE) a cart is a vehicle that has to be pul...To me (BrE) a cart is a vehicle that has to be pulled, so it feels odd to use the word for the thing you push round the supermarket.<br />"Dustcart" for a bin lorry is of course a relic of the days when the dustman used a horse and cart and, as Enitharmon says, "dust" was a Victorian euphemism for domestic waste.Kate Buntinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17223976536411967222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87195073447490947092016-11-15T20:02:30.527+00:002016-11-15T20:02:30.527+00:00In "The Marx Brothers: Their World of Comedy&...In "The Marx Brothers: Their World of Comedy" (New York: Warner, 1971), Allan Eyles told of a 1965 interview in which Groucho Marx said, "This morning I am awakened by a great din and am told it's the dustman. I told him to get lost. Who needs dust?" It doesn't mention who the interviewer was or on which side of the Atlantic the interview took place. (Eyles was a British author.) If the interview was in a North American medium, then the word "dustman" was presumably in circulation in American English as of 1965 or at least known to the audience of the interview.Steve Dunhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970801099772755392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90604427951410753452012-08-21T20:08:39.270+01:002012-08-21T20:08:39.270+01:00It's not given the meaning in my Chambers Engl...It's not given the meaning in my Chambers English Dictionary but in his last completed novel Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens makes much of 'dust' which he gives the sense of general junk. It's literally the stock-in-trade of, and the source of the wealth of, John Harmon the contract 'dust-collector' whose will provides the pivot for a convoluted plot, and the heaps of 'dust' in Harmon's yard are a metaphor for hoarded wealth.enitharmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829757748223670291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78316217153808272222012-06-26T02:00:54.287+01:002012-06-26T02:00:54.287+01:00Lynne
In fact, the only AmE use of trolley that I...Lynne<br /><br /><i>In fact, the only AmE use of trolley that I can think of is one that the OED marks as AmE: "an electric car driven by means of a trolley", the latter trolley being a kind of pulley system.</i><br /><br />And yet the expression <i>off his trolley</i> seems to be shared. The OED gives one US quote dated 1976. More to the point there were two Hollywood films with that title (unless somebody has been scattering misinformation on the Web).<br /><br />Re <i>dustcart</i>, Lonny Donnegan had a hit in my youth which included:<br /><br /><i>CHORUS<br />Oh, my old man's a dustman<br />He wears a dustman's hat<br />He wears cor blimey trousers<br />And he lives in a council flat<br /><br />SPOKEN<br />I say, I say, I say<br />My dustbins full of lillies<br />(Well throw 'em away then)<br />I can't Lilly's wearing them!<br /><br />VERSE<br />Now one day while in a hurry<br />He missed a lady's bin<br />He hadn't gone but a few yards<br />When she chased after him<br />'What game do you think you're playing'<br />She cried right from the heart<br />'You've missed me...am I too late?'<br />'No... jump up on the cart!'</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77196714482384190962012-06-25T02:01:23.347+01:002012-06-25T02:01:23.347+01:00Anonymous: Fred Rogers lived in Pittsburgh, so he ...Anonymous: Fred Rogers lived in Pittsburgh, so he was well familiar with trolleys (and also funiculars, called "inclines" there).Garrett Wollmanhttp://bimajority.org/~wollman/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52692678109204484202011-08-20T04:10:30.355+01:002011-08-20T04:10:30.355+01:00Living on the US West coast, we give the words qui...Living on the US West coast, we give the words quite (AmE i.t.s.) opposite meanings. A "tram" is used to refer exclusively to an enclosed gondola (carriage?) suspended -- and pulled -- by a cable. To wit, <a rel="nofollow">"the tram</a>." "Tram" would never be used to refer to a thing rolling along tracks on the ground. That would be a trolley, or more commonly, streetcar (ala <a rel="nofollow">these</a>). "Trolley" tends to evoke thoughts of San Francisco's trolleys (which were, historically, cable-cars) and the ringing-bell sound that accompanies them. These were, I imagine, the basis of the Mr. Rogers' trolley.<br /><br />There are also funitels, distinguished from trams by having cables on both edges of the gondola. (Some places, usually ski resorts it seems, refer to trams as gondolas. This confuses the issue as gondolas are also attached to hot-air balloons.) Funiculars have the cable underneath, and usually follow tracks, which I suppose makes them similar to trolleys. I wouldn't refer to a streetgoing vehicle as a funicular though, just as I wouldn't refer to something going up the side of a mountain as a trolley.<br /><br />Cart (around here, usually used in reference to <a rel="nofollow">food carts</a>) may be powered (as in golf cart or go-cart) or not (library book cart, serving cart). As for the "go-kart" spelling, I've always thought that an intentional misspelling for the sake of trademarkability.<br /><br />I just found your blog, and it's an interesting read, so thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-41778427317608084572010-04-07T08:00:22.785+01:002010-04-07T08:00:22.785+01:00The dust which dustmen took away in the dustcart m...The dust which dustmen took away in the dustcart may have included the grey/gray stuff that still settles on furniture, but in former times the dustiest stuff was the ash from domestic fires and boilers. If there had been plastic then, dustbins couldn't have been made of it because folks would put such ash in them while it was still hot. Some of the few surviving dustbins (and wheely-bins) have warnings on them not to put-in hot ash.<br /><br />Communal metal dustbins were used in the second world war to collect food-waste for feeding to pigs. They would get quite rank in summer. Mischievous boys would lean them against people's front doors, bang on the knocker, hide behind the hedge, and then watch what happened when the householder opened the door and the bin fell in.Paul Danonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04816761952837296368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72064197119420479262008-07-22T15:19:00.000+01:002008-07-22T15:19:00.000+01:00Loving this blog, as a Yank living in Ireland. NB...Loving this blog, as a Yank living in Ireland. NB we call them "bin lorries" here :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63183213925351882642008-07-17T12:23:00.000+01:002008-07-17T12:23:00.000+01:00Ooh, don't forget "pantechnicon" for a removal van...Ooh, don't forget "pantechnicon" for a removal van. Possibly a little out of usage these days? My gran used it last week and I had completely forgotten about it.Segat1https://www.blogger.com/profile/15918487556625358900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73540752380087017512008-07-10T20:05:00.000+01:002008-07-10T20:05:00.000+01:00It's fun to live in an older American city like Bo...It's fun to live in an older American city like Boston, where we have at least one of every single type of vehicle mentioned so far. The subways (all of which travel aboveground for at least part of their journey...) generally have "cars" (which run on third-rail electricity). The Green Line (the oldest line) has trolley cars - they run on overhead electrical lines. We also have the "electric buses" (again, overhead lines) along with regular diesel buses and newer LP gas hybrid buses. For me, "trams" are inextricably linked with Disney World - the trams are the gasoline-powered chains of little golfcart-like vehicles that take you from the massive parking lot to the entrance gates (trams may also be part of an amusement park ride, or a tour through a "natural habitat"-style park).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4805998717060801912008-07-10T05:39:00.000+01:002008-07-10T05:39:00.000+01:00The euphemism in the US, anyway, is "sanitation wo...The euphemism in the US, anyway, is "sanitation worker".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56933631746653309632008-07-06T19:10:00.000+01:002008-07-06T19:10:00.000+01:00There used to be a trolley service on the BedPan (...There used to be a trolley service on the BedPan (Bedford-St Pancras) line. The company put out a leaflet hyping it, which promised passengers an enhanced 'in-seat experience'.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962414397196709843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27435863711437592562008-07-01T23:54:00.000+01:002008-07-01T23:54:00.000+01:00Bit late I know but here in Devon the they do say ...Bit late I know but here in Devon the they do say dustcart whereas I(from the Midlands) say dustbin lorry.<BR/><BR/>Another local word I had never heard until I came here was Scavenger, as in "I've got to put the bin out for the Scavenger"Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10629403422119052803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22018230665252405972008-06-30T21:51:00.000+01:002008-06-30T21:51:00.000+01:00In America, a go-cart (-kart?) has a motor. Witho...In America, a go-cart (-kart?) has a motor. Without an engine, it's a soapbox racer or soapbox derby car.Conchitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09134519417969084527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17943149827145597572008-06-26T08:53:00.000+01:002008-06-26T08:53:00.000+01:00Home for me lunch? Me dinner, surely!Home for me lunch? Me dinner, surely!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18389239644772212152008-06-25T20:56:00.000+01:002008-06-25T20:56:00.000+01:00"Dustcart" was new to me when I came to London, be..."Dustcart" was new to me when I came to London, because I grew up in the north of England.<BR/><BR/>In the north we had "bin lorries", staffed by "binmen".<BR/><BR/>Joke:<BR/>Teacher in northern school: Where's the bin?<BR/>Child: I've been home for me lunch, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46254778010801888182008-06-25T17:26:00.000+01:002008-06-25T17:26:00.000+01:00Where on the mainland of Europe are there trolleyb...Where on the mainland of Europe are there trolleybuses?<BR/><BR/>Athens, Banská Bystrica, Basel, Belgrade, Bergen, Berne, Biel, Brașov, Brno, Bucharest, Budapest, České Budějovice, Chomutov, Cluj, Coimbra, Constanța, Debrecen, Eberswalde, Esslingen, Fribourg, Gdynia, Geneva, Ghent, Hradec Králové, Jihlava, Jirkov, Kaunas, Kiev (and 24 other Ukrainian cities - including an 80-km long route between Simferopol and Yalta), Košice, La Chaux-de-Fonds, Landskrona, Lausanne, Limoges, Lublin, Lucerne, Lyon, Mariánské Lázně, Mediaș, Milan, Minsk, Montreux, Moscow (and 86 other Russian cities - not all of them in Europe), Nancy, Neuchâtel, Opava, Ostrava, Otrokovice, Pardubice, Pernik, Pilsen, Ploiești, Plovdiv, Prešov, Rome, Saint-Étienne, Schaffhausen, Sibiu, Sofia, Solingen, Sopot, St. Gallen, Szeged, Tallinn, Teplice, Timișoara, Tychy, Ústí nad Labem, Varna, Veliko Tarnovo, Vevey, Vilnius, Winterthur, Žilina, Zlín, and Zürich.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68426196544784138002008-06-25T16:07:00.000+01:002008-06-25T16:07:00.000+01:00Depends on your definition of Europe, but there ar...Depends on your definition of Europe, but there are lots in St Petersburg. I assume Moscow has them as well, but I don't recall seeing anyway (I was too busy checking out the awesome Metro stations).Ginger Yellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103410278129312943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-49412681422512565122008-06-25T15:46:00.000+01:002008-06-25T15:46:00.000+01:00Where on the mainland of Europe are trolley buses ...Where on the mainland of Europe are trolley buses common? I've travelled a fair bit especially in central Europe, and I have never in my life seen one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58678306716669839262008-06-25T09:08:00.000+01:002008-06-25T09:08:00.000+01:00Lynne, you can hear the Mr Rogers song on this Yo...Lynne, you can hear the Mr Rogers song on <BR/><A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xU_GUB8cDE" REL="nofollow"> this YouTube video</A>. Don't forget to watch out for the trolley poles! (One raised, one lowered, on each car ...OK, that's enough tram buffery for one day, Kevin)Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.com