tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post7831142785925708896..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: Happy New Yearlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17330514009442321462012-10-18T23:29:45.198+01:002012-10-18T23:29:45.198+01:00Chris redmond, I (american) would say on christmas...Chris redmond, I (american) would say on christmas day/new years eve/day, or I would say at christmas time if not the actual day. <br /> <br />I am guessing british say at christmas the same way they say at the weekend, while americans would say on the weekend.Mindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-70058520283223091382012-09-11T21:50:21.799+01:002012-09-11T21:50:21.799+01:00Yes, the 'at' would be for the turning-of-...Yes, the 'at' would be for the turning-of-the-year, not the whole year. Like 'at Christmas' or 'at Easter', a specific time.<br /><br />Similarly, BrE likes 'at the weekend' better than AmE does.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-49489719466012114922012-09-11T21:44:28.073+01:002012-09-11T21:44:28.073+01:00This is wonderful stuff, and I am digesting it wit...This is wonderful stuff, and I am digesting it with the hope of writing a sentence (in an article I'm still planning) that does not betray me as totally ignorant of how the language is used in Britain. A supplementary question for somebody, though, deals with the preposition <b>at</b>, in the phrase "at the New Year". I am inferring that it's more likely to mean "on or about January 1" rather than "in the course of next year", but some evidence stronger than my own inference would be welcome.Chris Redmondnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7698038664623186702009-06-17T06:23:13.952+01:002009-06-17T06:23:13.952+01:00It really bothers me when I hear people say "...It really bothers me when I hear people say "New Year's." It doesn't meaning anything in particular, and that's what's annoying about it. It's a simple colloquialism. I'm sure it comes from "New Year's Day," but when people actually say "New Year's" that is not what they are thinking. It's just slang. There are actually quite a few terms where the 's is totally unnecessary and the speaker doesn't really consider why it's there. For example, people where I live always refer to the store Aldi as "Aldi's," as if that is what it's meant to be called. When I say "Aldi" to people, they sometimes don't realize that I'm talking about the same thing they call "Aldi's." It is incredibly annoying.ff6mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64989598235617203132009-06-07T06:19:54.321+01:002009-06-07T06:19:54.321+01:00Philly English, like Boston and (to a lesser degre...Philly English, like Boston and (to a lesser degree) New York English, has some uses of <i>the</i> that aren't found in most American varieties. I can easily hear my (deceased) aunt saying "the Philadelphia airport". I suppose this is Irish influence, where extra definite articles are a way of life.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71801577180771009232009-02-20T20:22:00.000+00:002009-02-20T20:22:00.000+00:00dealing with condescension about your language on ...<I> dealing with condescension about your language on a regular basis.</I><BR/><BR/>People have a problem with Canadian?!Jens Knudsen (Sili)https://www.blogger.com/profile/14078875730565068352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67706997638506980362009-01-28T14:40:00.000+00:002009-01-28T14:40:00.000+00:00doh!doh!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40570101657237614562009-01-27T23:14:00.000+00:002009-01-27T23:14:00.000+00:00Squash is a sugary, concentrated fruit drink which...Squash is a sugary, concentrated fruit drink which you dilute yourself with lots of water. A staple of most childhoods (mine anyway)!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52420564066905386822009-01-27T21:45:00.000+00:002009-01-27T21:45:00.000+00:00But apparently you didn't see the comments policy,...But apparently you didn't see the comments policy, where it asks you not to put new, unrelated queries in the comments, but to email them to me instead!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62564746084894331872009-01-27T15:07:00.000+00:002009-01-27T15:07:00.000+00:00I looked for it on the site and haven't found it a...I looked for it on the site and haven't found it anywhere, so from one Yank...<BR/><BR/>What is Orange or Blackcurrant Squash?<BR/><BR/>My assumption is some sort of juice, perhaps one with more "pulp" in it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17275334813759337542009-01-23T11:16:00.000+00:002009-01-23T11:16:00.000+00:00Back to stress in compound nouns - we are all fami...Back to stress in compound nouns - we are all familiar with a toothbrush or TOOTHbrush, I believe. Could there be a parallel TOOTHcomb?! British newspaper columnists collectively had a funny turn a few years ago, writing about a 'fine TOOTH-comb' - they all seemed to make the same mistake, ignoring the original phrase 'fine-toothed COMB' used for a detailed search (both figuratively and for nits in hair). For several months we had to read this nonsensical usage in the papers and hear it on TV and radio - then it just disappeared, to be replaced by another fad....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47750519965139640302009-01-22T17:09:00.000+00:002009-01-22T17:09:00.000+00:00I have found that many differences between British...I have found that many differences between British and American pronunciation and usage can be traced through German, which doesn't come as much of a surprise as German people and language have been a major influence on the language in the US. The use of articles is far more common in German than English, for instance (German would never permit using the equivalent of "in hospital", it would have to be "in THE hospital" as common in AmE), as is leaving out "on" in phrases like BrE "I'll do it on Tuesday". And German compound nouns are typically expressed as single words, including "Neujahr".<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying this is THE explanation, far from it, but I think the strong influence of German on AmE could well be a factor both here and in many AmE/BrE differences.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88027823699742181032009-01-21T23:59:00.000+00:002009-01-21T23:59:00.000+00:00Sorry, I was taking that for granted, as already d...Sorry, I was taking that for granted, as already discussed. I don't know how to indicate the right sounds. A as in apple instead of A as in the vowel sound of rock then. Sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83741317113833370032009-01-21T23:52:00.000+00:002009-01-21T23:52:00.000+00:00PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's not get into the pasta ...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's not get into the <I>pasta</I> discussion again here!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-50538878871272172362009-01-21T23:50:00.000+00:002009-01-21T23:50:00.000+00:00Also, the second A was the A of British pasta as o...Also, the second A was the A of British pasta as opposed to the a of American pasta British A like apple, American A like vowel sound in rock.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72626200960615263212009-01-21T23:48:00.000+00:002009-01-21T23:48:00.000+00:00I've just come from listening to NPR (National Pub...I've just come from listening to NPR (National Public Radio) on which a British reporter, didn't catch his name, was interviewing Pakistani people about what they expect from Barack Obama. BARack Obama, he said, repeatedly. With a hard first A and stress on the first syllable, instead of BaRACK with a soft first (and second) A and stress on the second syllable. Why oh why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38191932479334904532009-01-21T15:55:00.000+00:002009-01-21T15:55:00.000+00:00Stress in compound nouns is an issue that has inte...Stress in compound nouns is an issue that has interested me and appeared in my blog <A HREF="http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2007/12/21/candy-canes/" REL="nofollow">on</A> <A HREF="http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2006/04/30/have-no-fear-baby-buttlegs-is-here/" REL="nofollow">several</A> <A HREF="http://literalminded.wordpress.com/2006/02/27/knowing-ones-place/" REL="nofollow">occasions</A>. I found Ingo Plag's research enlightening, and discussed it in the first linked post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26180502606773939522009-01-21T13:37:00.000+00:002009-01-21T13:37:00.000+00:00street vs every other thoroughfare('DOWNING Street...<I><BR/>street vs every other thoroughfare<BR/>('DOWNING Street', 'CORONATION Street', 'Portobello ROAD', 'Shaftesbury AVENUE', 'Trafalgar SQUARE')<BR/></I><BR/>I think this is also true of U.S. English, which strikes me as more noteworthy. In the U.S., it is rarely the case that two streetnames in the same town will have the same attribute and different types, as "Elm Street" vs "Elm Lane". (The obvious exception is numbered grids, as Fifth Ave vs 5th Street in Manhattan.) Because the attributes are unique, the type is often omitted altogether in speech -- "I'm on Elm" rather than "I'm on Elm Lane". And yet, if "Lane" is uttered, it is stressed as in British, in spite of being omissable and redundant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77670353875187890432009-01-20T23:56:00.000+00:002009-01-20T23:56:00.000+00:00@Damien I could have used as an example my own loc...@Damien <BR/><BR/>I could have used as an example my own local airport, where I know what people do and don't say. I do grant the possibility that people think differently in Philadelphia. But, in that case, you aren't talking about what Americans do, but what Philadephians do. I can tell you that what I said is true in the part of the country I'm from. And if someone here said "the CITY airport" I'd take it to mean "the airport in CITY.<BR/><BR/>(the same anonymous)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-70730058925200183442009-01-20T19:20:00.000+00:002009-01-20T19:20:00.000+00:00I can think of two more examples of compound stres...I can think of two more examples of compound stress which are curiously contradictory (at least in the UK):<BR/><BR/>street vs every other thoroughfare<BR/>('DOWNING Street', 'CORONATION Street', 'Portobello ROAD', 'Shaftesbury AVENUE', 'Trafalgar SQUARE')<BR/><BR/>juice vs squash<BR/>('ORANGE juice', 'APPLE juice', 'orange SQUASH', 'blackcurrant SQUASH')Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14386834263789165692009-01-20T16:59:00.000+00:002009-01-20T16:59:00.000+00:00The official name of the arena in Denver where the...The official name of the arena in Denver where the Nuggets (basketball) and Avalanche (ice hockey) teams play is officially "Pepsi Center". Nearly everybody calls it "the Pepsi Center", which would seem to be support for Damien's point.<BR/><BR/>OTOH, the biggest public university in Ohio calls itself (quite obtrusively) "The Ohio State University", but nearly everybody not a student there choose not to use the "the".<BR/><BR/>I don't know whether there's really a systematic difference between AmE and BrE in willingness to use the definite article. FWIW, I recall a rather lengthy Language Log article (or series of articles) on the use of definite articles in proper nouns, but can't find it on a cursory search.Doug Sundsethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848091504066560951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57182542997172293472009-01-20T12:14:00.000+00:002009-01-20T12:14:00.000+00:00@ Anonymous: The fact that the main airport of Ph...@ Anonymous: The fact that the main airport of Philadelphia isn't actually called 'Philadelphia Airport', as you point out, makes it a bad example for me to have used. But I don't agree that you can deduce from that, that those who say 'the Philadelphia airport' are using a common noun with a descriptor attached.<BR/><BR/>That would be a possibility if this example was the only such example that existed; but the fact is, I think, that AmE at least can put stress on the descriptive element of phrases like this in many more examples than BrE can. Previous comments in this thread have shown, as I suspected, that stress on the descriptor in phrases like 'New Year', 'Philadelphia Airport' etc isn't universal in AmE, since there are speakers of AmE who stress 'New <B><I>YEAR</I></B>', 'Philadelphia <B><I>AIR</I></B>port', just as BrE does. But there are also examples where the 'common noun plus descriptor' analysis isn't possible, and yet AmE can still put the stress on the adjective, even if there is no comparison implied (this is where it differs from BrE: BrE needs a comparison, explicit or implied, in order to stress the descriptive element). These are examples like 'Inter<B><I>NA</I></B>tional House' (where no other house was being compared to), '<B><I>FRUIT</I></B> pie' (where no other pie was being compared to). At least one speaker of AmE further up this thread has agreed that he would (by default?) stress 'fruit' in 'fruit pie', but this stress-pattern isn't a default that any speaker of BrE could use as far as I am aware.<BR/><BR/>My 'International House' example here is exactly analogous to your 'Philadelphia International Airport' example: the Americans I know who would say 'I live at the International House' are putting 'the' in front of the name of the place are doing the same as people would be doing if they said "I'm leaving from the Philadelphia International Airport". As you say, it is not likely that people would say "I'm leaving from the Philadelphia International Airport", but I don't think the reason why it's unlikely is because of ungrammaticality (if that were the reason, no-one would say 'I live at the International House', but they do). Rather, I think that people don't say "I'm leaving from the Philadelphia International Airport" because most people don't call it that; they just call it 'Philadelphia Airport'.<BR/><BR/>This fact is in defiance of the fact that there's actually another airport in Philadelphia, Northeast Philadelphia Airport (PNE). So saying 'the Philadelphia {a/A}irport' should be inefficient because it doesn't make clear <I>which</I> Philadelphia airport. But, unsurprisingly, that doesn't seem to matter!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55605248119872358072009-01-19T20:26:00.000+00:002009-01-19T20:26:00.000+00:00I think Damien's onto something with his fruit pie...I think Damien's onto something with his fruit pie.<BR/><BR/>As a Brit, I'd stress APRICOT crumble if I wanted to distinguish it from APPLE crumble or RHUBARB crumble, and apricot CRUMBLE if I didn't want apricot PIE.<BR/><BR/>I'd stress BLACKboard to show I didn't mean a WHITEboard, WATCHmaker because there are lots of different makers of things and PENNY Lane because other Lane's are available. But I might stress LANE to distinguish it from Penny ROAD.<BR/><BR/>Context is everything, of course, but most stress is born out of a need to make a distinction.<BR/><BR/>So, I'll wish you Happy New YEAR - even if I'm not sure why!<BR/><BR/>Cheers<BR/><BR/>BillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58690832794008467022009-01-19T17:23:00.000+00:002009-01-19T17:23:00.000+00:00I've never heard the expression, "Happy New Year's...I've never heard the expression, "Happy New Year's"...always it's been "Happy New Year" with the words stressed evenly. Actually, I've never really thought about it this much.badVladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18023478742340284002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24831024019294260282009-01-19T14:58:00.000+00:002009-01-19T14:58:00.000+00:00@anon & biochemist: when you say the new year,...@anon & biochemist: when you say <I>the</I> new year, you're using 'new year' as a phrase, rather than as a compound. <I>New Year</I> the compound treats the new year as a kind of event with a particular name--and it's that that's the compound and gets compound stress. So, we'd expect both groups to stress 'year' where it's a compositional (i.e. built from its parts) phrase rather than a lexical compound (i.e a term you've learn{t/ed} as a whole). In 'Happy New Year' it's most likely to be a compound--and so we'd expect to hear the difference clearly then.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.com