tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post9094481152442781649..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: Nominate WotYs & Untranslatables Month IIlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger97125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86476553469500441242019-06-06T19:43:30.884+01:002019-06-06T19:43:30.884+01:00BrE, Scot, mid 60s. Once people got used to “new m...BrE, Scot, mid 60s. Once people got used to “new money”, I was as likely to hear x pence as x pee., even in the case of one pence vs one pee. At the time, there was an undercurrent of resentment at the government virtually instructing us to say “pee”. And don’t forget the two pound piece, a usage I definitely hear more often than two pound coin.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44047685099988632662016-05-28T16:49:05.032+01:002016-05-28T16:49:05.032+01:00To inform on someone (American) is to "rat hi...To inform on someone (American) is to "rat him out".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6187455299163483242013-04-30T05:46:32.436+01:002013-04-30T05:46:32.436+01:00The American equivalent expression is "phoney...The American equivalent expression is "phoney as a three dollar bill." There is no such thing, and never has been -- a $1, a $5, occasionally a $2, but never a $3.<br /><br />We also say "20 to 1," but we leave out the "on."<br /><br />I'm not sure about "for my sins" being only British English -- I use that expression rather regularly, and I'm in South Dakota. I have no idea when I started using it, or where I picked it up.<br /><br />Skip can mean not going to class, meetings, etc. when you are supposed to -- "I skipped class today." -- but it also refers to skipping down a sidewalk, which I can only explain as sort of the hopping motion you would make jumping (skipping) rope minus the rope, as you move forward. It does seem to be connected with young girls.<br /><br />Poster child I think has a slightly disparaging feel to it? For instance, it seems like I see it in sentences like "So and so is the favorite poster child of the _______ political party," when someone is talking about the party they dislike, never the one they favor.<br /><br />I think Soccer Mom also occasionally can have that sense of slight insult, but this term really depends on the context. Soccer Mom and Yuppie are the only words I think I could use to adequately translate the feel of bourgeoisie because depending on the context they can mean simply a neutral economic classification of upper middle / professional / middle management or small business ownership class or they can imply a contempt for the (supposed) values associated with such. On the one hand you could say "we need the soccer mom vote" implying we need to appeal on core issues such as education, police and fire protection, and fixing the potholes in the street in front of your house, to "the other soccer moms will talk" as a car ad did a few years back implying their car was sporty rather than merely practical, to "Dear god, she's dating a guy in a band! What will the soccer moms think?" -- sort of implying they are all uptight and uncool. You see what I mean by shades of meaning depending on the context? <br /><br />The most difficult phrase I ever had to explain was "time to punt" as slang to someone from Wales. Most of the online slang dictionaries didn't give me a good definition to link to because they explained it in terms of specialized computer jargon as "time to give up and quit," which isn't how it is used by the general public. I finally found the official definition in a dictionary of (American) football terms which was: "Watch for a "punt" when an offense cannot score a touchdown or a field goal. The team punts when it is too far away to score any points and wants to make the other team's offense work harder by placing the ball far down the field. The ball is snapped to the punter who kicks the ball down the field. This is different from a field goal because the ball never touches another player or the ground until it is kicked." -- in other words your team is about to get caught (and stuck) farther away from your goal line than you started at the beginning of your turn and the other team will be closer to theirs; you've made no forward progress, you've gone backwards instead. There isn't a thing you can do about it, you've run out of time and options, but you can make it harder on the other guy by placing the ball father down the field so that when it flips over to their turn they at least are farther away from their goal line than they would be otherwise. From this it has become general slang for making the best of a bad situation, basically "It's time to regroup and try something else, pretty much on the fly, because whatever we're doing is failing miserably." And it took me about all that to explain the short three word phrase after I'd used it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30465940422103271302013-03-31T22:22:10.929+01:002013-03-31T22:22:10.929+01:00The word "quid" (invariable as to number...The word "quid" (invariable as to number *: "a quid", "two quid", "fifty quid" etc.) - the pound itself having been unaffected by decimalization -- is still very much alive. So much so that I believe that in Ireland it's even been transferred to the euro in popular speech: a hundred quid = a hundred euro.<br /><br />* except in the expression "quids in" (you'll be quids in = you'll make a lot of money on that deal)Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77592922339164372152013-03-31T18:51:06.957+01:002013-03-31T18:51:06.957+01:00Regarding English coinage, there are a few express...Regarding English coinage, there are a few expressions left over from the old money which seem to have survived, at least among the older generation. <br /><br />Colloquially a 6d coin was known as a "tanner"; a shilling as a "bob"; and a pound as a quid (still is). So one heard, and occasionally still hears "A tanner to a quid he'll be late" meaning "I'll give you odds of 20 to 1 on (Do Americans say 20 to 1 on, meaning 19 chances in 20?) that he's late." Also, someone who was thoroughly dishonest might even today be described as "bent as a 9 bob note" - the lowest denomination bill being 10 shillings.chris yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07556240635442613879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21055891824747043162012-12-24T12:24:25.581+00:002012-12-24T12:24:25.581+00:00Anonymous
I wouldn't dream of saying that my ...Anonymous<br /><br />I wouldn't dream of saying that my way of speaking is 'correct'. All I'm saying is this:<br /><br />1. I personally just can't use <i>penny</i> for 1p — whether coin of sum of money.<br /><br />2. I don't hear anybody else use it either. I hear <i>one pee</i> all the time. I hear <i>one pence</i> quite often. Gordon Brown caused a minor stir by using it in a Budget Speech.<br /><br />I know why I don't say <i>penny</i>. It seems reasonable to conclude that it might be relevant to why <i>penny</i> is not the common word it used to be. <br /><br />Most speakers are younger than me, and don't have a vivid memory (or, for the most part, any memory at all) of 1d. I supposed that there was a disconnect while my generation removed <i>penny</i> from our speech, and younger speakers picked up our <i>one pee</i> and <i>one pence</i>.<br /><br />1p coins are things we seldom talk about — unlike 1d coins, which we used to talk about all the time. It seems there are pockets of <i>penny</i>-sayers, but I never seem to come across them.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15690142441602161082012-12-24T09:09:41.454+00:002012-12-24T09:09:41.454+00:00Anonymous at 18.06 on 23 December:
My experience ...Anonymous at 18.06 on 23 December:<br /><br />My experience of current usage in this regard agrees with yours, BUT...<br /> <br />to be fair to Mr Crosbie, I don't think he's ever said that his way of speaking is "the correct one". He's simply told us what he says and reported what he believes those around him say -- and that, in my opinion, is all any of us can do (or indeed, ought to be doing) on Separated by a Common Language.<br /><br />Season's Greetings, everyone -- or, as many (most?) in the New World say, "Happy Holidays".* <br /><br />Kevin (English Midlands / South Wales)<br /><br />*PS. Now, referring to Christmastide as "the holidays": THERE'S something that's slightly creeping its way into British English, in my experience, but as of yet only in the mouths of a few broadcast journalists. To me "the holidays" still happen in July and August!<br /><br />PPS New Year's Resolution: in 2013 I will try to stay on topic in SbaCL.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61865484612369276382012-12-24T05:43:33.505+00:002012-12-24T05:43:33.505+00:00Although we have not had pence in American money s...Although we have not had pence in American money since 1789 or earlier, the coins are still <i>one penny, two pennies</i>, even though the legend on the coin is "ONE CENT". The word is tough, to have survived so long.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6137268278174543482012-12-23T18:06:18.474+00:002012-12-23T18:06:18.474+00:00I definitely call 1p pieces "pennies". D...I definitely call 1p pieces "pennies". David Crosbie seems to be arrogant/uninformed in thinking that his way of speaking is the correct one, rather than one of many possibilities.<br /><br />"One pence coin" or "One pee coin" sound wrong to my ears, people where I live would call them "One pence piece(s)". "One pee piece" doesn't sound right either.<br /><br />Using "piece" for coins is definitely not unusual to me, and no-one has ever commented on it when I say it. If I needed 50p, I'd either ask "Have you got 50 pee/pence" (if I just needed the amount) or "Have you got a 50 pence piece" (if I needed that specific coin). I definitely wouldn't say "Have you got a 50 pence coin?". <br /><br />Pee/pence are interchangeable for me when talking about prices. "It's 99 pee" is just as likely to come out of my mouth as "It's 99 pence".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26145368607807904522012-12-23T00:30:56.700+00:002012-12-23T00:30:56.700+00:00Absolutely not true that "with bells on"...Absolutely not true that "with bells on" is unheard of in American English.<br /><br />It's not common, but it exists and is used, particularly among the 50+ crowd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30319580343638218212012-12-21T16:13:08.638+00:002012-12-21T16:13:08.638+00:00"with bells on" (a superlative, meaning ..."with bells on" (a superlative, meaning certainly) is definitely a BrE phrase that doesn't exist in AmE.<br /><br />Example:<br />"Are you coming to my party tonight?"<br />"Yeah, we'll be there with bells on!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58738947592424154462012-12-21T10:23:45.076+00:002012-12-21T10:23:45.076+00:00L (librum) slightly altered to £
I always though...<i>L (librum) slightly altered to £</i><br /> <br />I always thought the word in question was <i>libra</i> (fem.). <b>Is</b> there, in fact, such a word as <i>librum</i> in Latin?<br /><br /><i>The reasons we use</i> one <i>nowadays for 1p coins are twofold:</i><br /><i>1. They've become pretty uncommon.</i><br /><i>2. They're so similar to 2p coins — and so unlike all others.</i><br /><br />I can't see why either of those reasons would lead us to call a 1p coin a <i>one</i> -- but, aside from that<br /><br />- 1p coins are not at all uncommon! The Royal Mint estimates that 39% of all the British coins in circulation are one-penny pieces, and certainly, when I empty my pockets at the end of each day, I generally have more "one pees" than any other single denomination. Perhaps I shop too often in 99p stores!<br /><br />- The only similarity I can see between between 1p and 2p coins is in their composition, and therefore colour. A two-penny piece has twice the mass of a one-penny coin and a diameter more than a quarter greater.<br /><br />BTW, the term "penny" is by no means obsolete in shoppping situations:<br /><br />"That'll be four pounds and a penny, please."<br />(Customer tenders a five-pound note)<br />"You wouldn't happen to have the penny, would you?"Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-49375871671852545042012-12-19T23:19:26.804+00:002012-12-19T23:19:26.804+00:00My nomination for WotY is "mansplaining"...My nomination for WotY is "mansplaining", as defined by Wiktionary: "(colloquial, chiefly Internet) To explain (something) condescendingly (to a female listener), especially to explain something the listener already knows, presuming that she has an inferior understanding of it because she is a woman."<br /><br />This has been a year I've noticed more and more gender issues being acknowledged in mainstream media, which I believe is fuelled by the strength of Internet communities that promote gender equality. Mansplaining is a phenomenon that's relatable and observable, particularly as some retaliate against the threat of women being equal to men. <br /><br />You might also like: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/10/16/new-website-provides-outlet-victims-academic-mansplainingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67498690106241572562012-12-18T20:06:14.370+00:002012-12-18T20:06:14.370+00:00I do think, David, that it is your local variety o...I do think, David, that it is your local variety of English that doesn't call a 1p coin a "penny". <br /><br />Thinking about it, I'd say that I have too many 1p coins in my purse, not pennies, but if I was paying a bill in Tesco's or Lidl for £3.61 and had the exact change, I might well say "and a penny!" when counting it out. Or if I had to give £3.62, I would not at all be surprised to hear the checkout operator (forget what the American word for that is) say "And a penny change!"Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30286258039714866352012-12-18T11:28:37.485+00:002012-12-18T11:28:37.485+00:00Anonymous
Part of the problem is that in done Eng...Anonymous<br /><br /><i>Part of the problem is that in done English dialects, it's normal to elide or outright omit the word for the numbers, especially when dealing with the coins themselves.<br /><br />Thus, nobody will say "a one penny coin". It's just "a penny".</i><br /><br />I fail to see the 'problem'.<br /><br />And I for one <b><i>never</i></b> say <i>'a penny'</i>. (Unless I'm looking at an old 1d coin, of course.) For me, it's <i>'a one pee coin'</i>. In the appropriate context, it's <i>'a one'</i> I wouldn't object to <i>'a one pence coin'</i> — though I know that may British speakers hate it.<br /><br />Yes, in the old days we didn't say <i>'a one penny coin'</i>, but we did sometimes say <i>'a one-pound note'</i>.<br /><br />What you seem to be referring to is the omission of the word <i>coin</i> (or <i>piece</i> or <i>bit</i>) rather than the number. The only number that can be omitted is <i>one</i>. Yes, I would usually say <i>'a shilling'</i>, but I could easily have said <i>'Is it a one-shilling piece or a two shillings/ a florin?'</i><br /><br />The reasons we use <i>one</i> nowadays for 1p coins are twofold:<br />1. They've become pretty uncommon.<br />2. They're so similar to 2p coins — and so unlike all others.<br /><br />I would be amazed to hear anybody say <i>tuppence</i> for 2p or <i>a tuppeny bit</i> for the 2p coin. I can only guess that you've come across the odd group of older speakers that use it among themselves. On the whole, those of us who remember the word <i>tuppence</i> also remember 2d — which was never a coin (well, not in modern times), but was a fixed weight of copper coins, whether pennies, halfpennies or farthings.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66459053553281949762012-12-17T19:26:40.709+00:002012-12-17T19:26:40.709+00:00For 30 years - 1950's to 80's - the (US) M...For 30 years - 1950's to 80's - the (US) Muscular Dystrophy Association literally selected an ill child to serve as its Poster Child, who was pictured on posters and fund-raising literature for a year. It sounds gruesome now, but in that era children with diseases like MD were hidden away as if they were shameful or disgusting. The Poster Child idea was to show an identifiable cheerful, smiling child who could be helped.<br /><br />You can read the obit of the first Poster Child here, <br />http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930422&slug=1697184Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44608286012216359202012-12-17T18:20:54.322+00:002012-12-17T18:20:54.322+00:00Regarding the currency issues;
Part of the proble...Regarding the currency issues;<br /><br />Part of the problem is that in done English dialects, it's normal to elide or outright omit the word for the numbers, especially when dealing with the coins themselves.<br /><br />Thus, nobody will say "a one penny coin". It's just "a penny".<br /><br />"Pennies" then becomes the plural form if the penny coin, while "Pence" is the term for cash values expressed as multiples of the value of a penny.<br /><br />So "Five Pennies" describes five penny coins, while "fivepence" describes either a cost, or the coin with that value.<br /><br />The term "piece" is still used for some coins, typically the 50p & 20p. "Bit" is archaic for the most part, although some older people will still use "tuppenny bit" for two pence. Generally, anything smaller than a twenty pence piece is described as however many pence it is in value. So, perhaps pence has replaced bit as the general term for "small coin"?<br /><br />On a side note, as far as untranslatables go, is the phrase "spend a penny", which is a euphemism for urination, particularly in a public convenience. Sadly, due to inflation most of these now cost far more than a single penny to use!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Lastly, the phrase "sorted" as a usage for "having enough drugs" occurred in the 90s, as a deniable term. As it was neither yes nor no, it was a flimsy way of dealing with pushy dealers wanting you to buy, and suspicious ones that might be undercover police.<br /><br />It was undoubtedly popularized by the 1995 Pulp song "Sorted for E's and Wizz"<br /><br />http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorted_for_E's_%26_Wizz<br /><br />Wizz, for reference, is amphetamine sulphate, aka SpeedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51581887772064744022012-12-16T07:36:25.422+00:002012-12-16T07:36:25.422+00:00My vote is for "sorted." Great list, th...My vote is for "sorted." Great list, thanks.Katherine W. Hirshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10876780741051416418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74953681518529608252012-12-15T19:23:40.405+00:002012-12-15T19:23:40.405+00:00Dru
According to the OED a skip was used in minin...Dru<br /><br />According to the OED a <i>skip</i> was used in mining and quarrying to draw materials up or let them down. The term then spread to containers that stand around longer. But the principle is similar: a filled skip is lifted up and emptied elsewhere. <br /><br />The earliest OED quote is from 1815: <i>Some colliers were descending into a coal pit,..five in one skip and four in the other.</i> <br /><br />They give the etymology as a variant of <i>skep</i> meaning 'basketful'.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10409772577540825232012-12-15T14:50:19.608+00:002012-12-15T14:50:19.608+00:00@Dru:
In rugby, "hospital pass" is a Br...@Dru:<br /><br />In rugby, "hospital pass" is a BrE equivalent of AmE "Hail Mary pass": the pass will take to long to arrive that the opposition will have time to tackle the recipient (possibly causing injury).vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13789501901925575832012-12-14T23:26:17.976+00:002012-12-14T23:26:17.976+00:00'Skip', 'skipping' and 'skippi...'Skip', 'skipping' and 'skipping rope' are the usual expressions in BrE. Skip is the verb and you don't add 'rope'. 'Skipping' is the activity and a 'skipping rope' is the thing you skip with. It's really an activity for small girls in school playgrounds, but sports trainers are keen to get athletes to do it because it is good for them. <br /><br />'Skip' is also used idiomatically to mean deliberately not go to something one should attend, 'I skipped the first class this morning'.<br /><br />I think the 'skip' builders put rubble in is a different word altogether, possibly vaguely related to 'ship'. I get the impression it spread into general use about 40 years ago, possibly from either a regional or trade dialect.<br /><br />I suspect even most Grauniad readers would have been mystified by 'hail mary pass' but being Grauniad readers wouldn't have wanted to admit it.Drunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28919925743705219642012-12-14T15:58:24.642+00:002012-12-14T15:58:24.642+00:00Skipping is the activity, a skipping-rope the equi...Skipping is the activity, a skipping-rope the equipment.<br /><br />vp - Yes, I know that "dice" is really plural, though I do use it in the singular so as to make myself understood.<br /><br />Kate (Derby, UK)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84927150413506361452012-12-13T18:17:51.460+00:002012-12-13T18:17:51.460+00:00Dru - a "hail mary pass" in American foo...Dru - a "hail mary pass" in American football is a long-shot attempt to win the game in the final seconds. The quarterback says a prayer and launches the ball towards the end zone, and the opposing team usually catches it. I thought I'd seen it used metaphorically in a british newspaper (probably the guardian?) But as I said, I don't know if the writer was american, or if the readers understood the phrase. <br />A derecho has the same intensity and causes the same damage as a tornado, only it's not funnel shaped, i.e. "straight-line". It's climatically unusual here, too. <br />Jump-rope is the normal american word for the object, jumping rope or jump-roping for the action. Would "skipping rope" be both in BrE?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79263412701668924822012-12-13T00:52:56.691+00:002012-12-13T00:52:56.691+00:00Dru
I don't think either the Spanish derecho ...Dru<br /><br />I don't think either the Spanish <i>derecho</i> or English <i>straight-line</i> can be applied to any weather phenomenon that can happen in Britain.<br /><br />The words are like <i>prairie</i> — except that the prairie doesn't come and go, and there's a long history of taking and singing about it in our shared culture. As a little boy, I had only the vaguest idea what the prairie was, but the cowboy association gave it a reality of sorts. A <i>derecho</i> is just unimaginable from this side of the Atlantic.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63484990205679129802012-12-12T23:42:05.711+00:002012-12-12T23:42:05.711+00:00I've never heard of the expression " hail...I've never heard of the expression " hail mary passes". What does it mean? And is it alleged to be AmE or BrE? Although the UK has a significant RC population, it's traditionally Protestant. So the expression would naturally sound Irish to me.<br /><br />I've also never heard of, "derecho", meaning "widespread, long-lived, straight-line windstorm". The normal BrE word by the way, assuming I've guessed the meaning correctly, would not be 'windstorm' but 'gale'. Would a 'straight-line' gale be one that blows from the same direction with a constant intensity without sudden bursts, gusts, squalls and lull? If so, climatically, that would be unusual here.<br /><br />Incidentally, another usage that was new to me, which I heard recently, but which I don't think has transferred, is 'jumping rope' which I think means what we (BrE) would call 'skipping'.Drunoreply@blogger.com