tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post116034460228740815..comments2024-03-28T16:11:36.465+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: cater to/for and beat up (on)lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15514783101592361462015-08-24T11:45:10.184+01:002015-08-24T11:45:10.184+01:00Little boys in the UK in the 1950s might 'bash...Little boys in the UK in the 1950s might 'bash in' their foes: threatening 'I'll bash you in'.<br />Nowadays teenagers fear that they might be beaten up by other boys or gangs.<br />Old cars that have encountered walls or other hard objects are generally described as 'beaten-up' or 'bashed-up'. biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9874619842672053842015-03-24T16:34:53.783+00:002015-03-24T16:34:53.783+00:00Grace: There is this post on "Self-catered&q...Grace: There is this post on "Self-catered": http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2009/08/self-catering.html<br /><br />Having just paid for my daughter's 4 years at college, I think you're right that there is no AmE version of self-catered. There is the phrase "room and board", but that seems pretty antique and, to me anyway, implies a boarding house situation with common meals in a house rather than eating in a dining hall. Kirk Poorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-70138297342238586772015-03-24T10:40:10.325+00:002015-03-24T10:40:10.325+00:00BrE also has the term "self-catered," as...BrE also has the term "self-catered," as in a university housing option that doesn't come with a meal plan. This may be one of those untranslatables, since I don't think AmE has a simple word or phrase equivalent for that. "Self-catered" feels somewhat oxymoronic to me. I think the only context where I might use it would be for a formal event where you decided to provide the food and related services yourself instead of (the normal practice of) hiring a caterer. Therefore, your wedding could be self-catered, but probably not your neighborhood block party.Gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14644859183662353936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1160506482578925042006-10-10T19:54:00.000+01:002006-10-10T19:54:00.000+01:00GY, I wouldn't say beat on the Joker either--that'...GY, I wouldn't say <I>beat on the Joker</I> either--that's not just a BrE thing. But my reading of this is because we like <I>beat on</I> to be with inanimate objects.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1160413273840757642006-10-09T18:01:00.000+01:002006-10-09T18:01:00.000+01:00I've never heard of a beat down, but OED has it as...I've never heard of a <I>beat down</I>, but OED has it as "A physical beating, pummeling, or assault; a defeat. Cf. SMACKDOWN n.". Originally and chiefly U.S.<BR/><BR/>I have heard of a <I>smackdown</I>, but only because it's the name of a wrestling program(me). (Not that I watch it, mind you!)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1160411739089015292006-10-09T17:35:00.000+01:002006-10-09T17:35:00.000+01:00In AmE, I'd expect "beat the **** out of" at least...In AmE, I'd expect "beat the **** out of" at least as often as "beat up [on]". I don't know how common this formulation is in BrE, though I've seen **** = "stuffing" at least occasionally. In AmE, **** seems mostly to be "hell" or colloquialisms of "feces/faeces".<BR/><BR/>I find the prevalence of "hell" to be interesting. I suspect this comes from "spare the rod; spoil the child" discipline schemes, where it would have been intended literally rather than metaphorically, though I think the literal meaning is mostly lost now.<BR/><BR/>Also, since you're talking about "beat[ing] up [on]", perhaps it would be useful to mention "beat down", used as a noun phrase, "Fred administered a serious beat down" or as a verb/adverb, "Fred beat Joe down."Doug Sundsethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848091504066560951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1160382519121516592006-10-09T09:28:00.000+01:002006-10-09T09:28:00.000+01:00The OED has cater to as being the more figurative ...The OED has <I>cater to</I> as being the more figurative meaning of <I>cater</I>, and attributes to it a negative connotation--comparing it to <I>pander to</I>, as in <I>pander/cater to all tastes</I>. Your connotation seems to be much more positive. <BR/><BR/>However, a food (<I>for</I>) vs non-food (<I>for</I>) distimction doesn't seem to be maintained in BrE now. Searching .uk sites on Google, there are 243 UK hits for <I>cater for all interests</I> but only 6 for <I>cater to all interests</I>. <I>Cater for all types</I> gets 28,700, most of which appear to be non-food related, including the provision of bicycles, angling equipment, disco music, moves (i.e. from house to house), learners (driving and university), etc., while <I>cater to all types</I> has 83--and they don't seem to be negative in connotation. For example, <I>Chile's Lake District is divine and dotted with smart, pretty-but-busy little towns that cater to all types of active tourism.</I> (from the Travel section of the <I>Guardian</I>). A lot of the <I>cater to</I> ones seem to be travel-<A HREF="http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2006/09/inducting-orientating-and-pressurising.html" REL="nofollow">orient(at)ed</A>, and we have to wonder whether some of them are written by travel(l)ing Americans or (in the case of ones about America) American tourist boards.<BR/><BR/>I don't think one can say, though, that Italian 'depends from', since prepositions are notoriously untranslatable. In that case, you'd have to say that in the possessive, Italian says 'the pen from my mother' for 'my mother's pen', right? But that's not how we'd translate it, because there just aren't one-to-one equivalents for prepositions across languages. But you're right that prepositions are often 'semantically bleached'. This is related to the phenomenon of <A HREF="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grammaticalization" REL="nofollow">gramaticali{s/z}ation</A>.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1160357821137476422006-10-09T02:37:00.000+01:002006-10-09T02:37:00.000+01:00Regarding catering, my immediate reaction was that...Regarding catering, my immediate reaction was that <I>cater to</I> and <I>cater for</I> conveyed slightly different meanings. to <I>cater to</I> is primarily to help someone with something, whereas to <I>cater for</I> seems to specify food. That is, to <I>cater for a party</I> is necessarily to provide food, but <I>cater to a party('s needs)</I> may be anything, music, say. <BR/>I suspect it's related to that phenomenon where prepositions lack their original locational sense. Words such as <I>depend</I> are unstable as to the conventional proposition they take. Now, in English, something <I>depends on</I>, but in Italian, something <I>depends from</I>. Moreover, a quick look at the sources given in the OED show that <I>depend</I> occurred arbitrarily with any preposition. <BR/>The lack of semantic content in prepositions in these contexts allows them flexibility. Heard of 'light verbs'? Maybe these should be called 'light prepositions'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com