tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post1431502102984806549..comments2024-03-28T16:11:36.465+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: it's down/up to youlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77345525243845673732019-05-28T19:15:59.720+01:002019-05-28T19:15:59.720+01:00BrE, Scot, mid 60s. I agree with Mrs Redboots and ...BrE, Scot, mid 60s. I agree with Mrs Redboots and others. I don’t recall ever hearing “down to” before the U.K. soap Eastenders started screening in 1985. Similarly, it always seemed that after Australian soaps became popular in the U.K., half the population stared finishing their sentences with rising pitch. For me, any subtle perceived difference between “up to” and “down to” sounds a bit like special pleading.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35489973590452775742017-03-25T17:54:33.796+00:002017-03-25T17:54:33.796+00:00The first time the phrase registered with me was w...The first time the phrase registered with me was when one character in Downton Abbey (and you don't get much more British than that!) accused another of something, saying "Wait! This is down to you, isn't it?" In that context, it couldn't be exchanged with "up to", but would translate in American usage roughly as "your doing".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09866303890408156074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44121693174528400612015-08-12T21:43:37.036+01:002015-08-12T21:43:37.036+01:00I don't remember down to you being common in B...I don't remember down to you being common in Britain until Margaret Thatcher often used it when she became a well know politician and let Prime Minister.My 88 year old father will still say "up to you" as do I (I am 61). I believe Thatcher thought she was superior to everyone and therefore if someone else was making the decision it was "down" to them, not "up" to them as we in the UK commonly used before her.Geongohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12882707810675526962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30184281835229559512012-02-29T06:53:52.572+00:002012-02-29T06:53:52.572+00:00I think of it as "it all comes down to you.&q...I think of it as "it all comes down to you."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87251490251284891462011-07-01T17:34:08.446+01:002011-07-01T17:34:08.446+01:00I just discovered your blog, and I love it. As an ...I just discovered your blog, and I love it. As an American expat living in the UK, I can relate to a lot of the differences!A Lady in Londonhttp://www.aladyinlondon.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-19604890129233281212011-06-30T02:03:27.825+01:002011-06-30T02:03:27.825+01:00Maybe a topic for a separate post, but "down ...Maybe a topic for a separate post, but "down to" in the sense of "attributable to" seems to me to be exclusively BrE, and to be relatively recent - I'm pretty sure I never encountered it before I left the UK in the late 1970s. I'm thinking of sentences like "Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans" which is the very first google hit for "is down to".Alecnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9553909215810319772011-06-26T12:24:52.358+01:002011-06-26T12:24:52.358+01:00Ken Brown
"Its down to you" is the oppo...Ken Brown<br /><br /><i>"Its down to you" is the opposite - you are telling them they can't get out of it whether they like it or not.</i><br /><br />That's interesting, Ken. I would never myself say it of responsibility for <b>future</b> action, but it does sound plausible. <br /><br />I'm assuming that you're also a British speaker, so It may well be a generational thing.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-53864627319771380822011-06-22T13:05:23.211+01:002011-06-22T13:05:23.211+01:00Reminds me of the get up / get down issue that dea...Reminds me of the get up / get down <a href="http://www.theonion.com/articles/national-funk-congress-deadlocked-on-get-upget-dow,625/" rel="nofollow">issue</a> that deadlocked the National Funk Congress.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90686264509829977602011-06-22T11:38:59.504+01:002011-06-22T11:38:59.504+01:00It's an interesting distinction, the more so b...It's an interesting distinction, the more so because it's not clear-cut. This is partly because making a choice implies responsibility. Browsing an Irish forum for examples, I found one that illustrates this nicely: "it's down to you to choose which one suits you".Stanhttp://stancarey.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79744590993193622892011-06-21T23:31:07.683+01:002011-06-21T23:31:07.683+01:00To me "its up to you" sounds like giving...To me "its up to you" sounds like giving someone a choice - you can say "I'll leave it up to you to decide"<br /><br />"Its down to you" is the opposite - you are telling them they can't get out of it whether they like it or not.Ken Brownhttp://ken.wibsite.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17397299691363339872011-06-21T01:21:24.812+01:002011-06-21T01:21:24.812+01:00In fact, thinking about it, the phrase "it...In fact, thinking about it, the phrase "it's down to you" does have a sort of London / Cockney feel to it. Indeed, when I type that phrase into Google the first thing that comes up is Lord Alan Sugar in the Daily Telegraph who is indeed from east London originally:<br /><br />http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/8240122/Success-Its-down-to-you-all-the-way-Lord-Sugar.html<br /><br />Of course I accept that's not particularly good evidence because it is only one source.Andy JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819413906544791899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35798274370280462192011-06-21T01:15:06.492+01:002011-06-21T01:15:06.492+01:00Well I would usually say "it's up to you&...Well I would usually say "it's up to you" and I live in central England. I don't think I've ever used "it's down to you". Maybe there are regional differences in the UK.Andy JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819413906544791899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-81699158542400274482011-06-20T20:21:48.615+01:002011-06-20T20:21:48.615+01:00This may explain why I never understood "It&#...This may explain why I never understood "It's down to me" in the Rolling Stones' "Under My Thumb."Fritinancyhttp://nancyfriedman.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40871153993729726932011-06-20T19:48:31.197+01:002011-06-20T19:48:31.197+01:00My impression is that "up to you" is use...My impression is that "up to you" is used differently in AmE depending on whether it indicates choice or serious responsibility. "It's up to you (full stop)" shows indifference on the part of the speaker. On the other hand, "It's up to you TO..." as in "It's up to you to make it happen" is used when talking about something gravely serious. <br /><br />There is a third phrase in American English which has an even more specific meaning: "The ball's in your/her/his court." It suggests that not only is it up to the person in question to make something happen, but the speaker has absolved themselves of responsibility for it.Ben T-Shttp://dialectblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18663788721425717292011-06-20T18:16:07.973+01:002011-06-20T18:16:07.973+01:00My gut sense matches David Young's, but I thin...My gut sense matches David Young's, but I think SC and John Cowan raise interesting points. <br /><br />Maybe the variation in syntactic contexts is a function of the semantics. Another such that that strikes me: if someone is passing the buck, they are much more likely to say "It's not up to me" than "It's not down to me". But if they are denying responsibility for something that's already happened, it must be "down", not "up".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15737755253879441642011-06-20T15:02:11.592+01:002011-06-20T15:02:11.592+01:00There also seems to be a difference in subcategori...There also seems to be a difference in subcategorization: the object of BrE <i>down to</i> can be impersonal, whereas the object of AmE (and BrE?) <i>up to</i> cannot. Googling, I find sentences like <i>Complexity in the music is down to Vangelis's influence</i> and <i>The precise magnitude of the difference that is down to human influence is still uncertain</i>. I would find these impossible with <i>up to</i>, and would need to use <i>due to</i> or <i>because of</i>.<br /><br />Might one say that the British tend to suppose that any change in their language is down to American influence?John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78935141613663532012011-06-20T14:44:15.007+01:002011-06-20T14:44:15.007+01:00Interestingly, in a poker context, my experience i...Interestingly, in a poker context, my experience is that "it's on you" is much more common these days.Ginger Yellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103410278129312943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31187533589254901652011-06-20T11:26:44.883+01:002011-06-20T11:26:44.883+01:00Mrs Redboots
My early memories are of the late 19...Mrs Redboots<br /><br />My early memories are of the late 1940's, but I think I'm broadly of your generation. Like you, I remember <i>down to</i> as a somewhat alien innovation, possibly American. But my response was a little different: I assumed that it was intended to mean something different from <i>up to</i>.<br /><br />Perhaps straight away, perhaps gradually over the years, I formed a mental opposition between <br /><br />UP <i>up for grabs</i>, unresolved, a matter of choice, specifically not governed by me, FUTURE<br /><br />DOWN <i>down to experience</i>, resolved, a matter of record, unaffected by me, PASTDavid Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30512957200762326152011-06-20T10:49:50.874+01:002011-06-20T10:49:50.874+01:00SE England speaker in my 50s here. I've always...SE England speaker in my 50s here. I've always thought of 'down to you' as a sporting metaphor, referring to the person the xxx team is depending on to win the match for them. As others have said, for me 'up to you' means your choice, with overtones of a shrug and I really don't care.RWMGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04271851970303022440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57378199607412183342011-06-20T10:11:12.438+01:002011-06-20T10:11:12.438+01:00Oddly enough, I thought "down to you" wa...Oddly enough, I thought "down to you" was an Americanism that we had adopted in the UK! That's because I am a child of the 1950s, and I grew up saying "Up to you" and never heard "down to you" until I was an adult (and you corroborate this by saying that it isn't found pre-1970). It still irritates me slightly as being "wrong", like when one uses "hopefully" as if it were the German "hoffentlich", but language changes and different isn't necessarily wrong!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54253417363868379692011-06-20T10:05:46.139+01:002011-06-20T10:05:46.139+01:00Your sense of the distinction in BrE ("up to&...Your sense of the distinction in BrE ("up to" => choice; "down to" => responsibility) is exactly the same as mine. (I'm a native BrE speaker.)<br /><br />Of course, as I think you note, it's easy for the two meanings to get blurred, as when making a choice is the same as taking responsibility for a decision.David Younghttp://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/davidy/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35182162544058193232011-06-20T03:21:37.570+01:002011-06-20T03:21:37.570+01:00Lynne:
My 18-year-old son, when told to do somethi...Lynne:<br />My 18-year-old son, when told to do something he doesn't want to do, routinely ripostes with "It's on you" as opposed to either "down to" or "up to" in the sense of assigning responsibility.Marc Leavittnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18444555651578333142011-06-20T02:48:27.045+01:002011-06-20T02:48:27.045+01:00When I first read this I thought you had it backwa...When I first read this I thought you had it backwards, as my first exposure to 'down to you' as meaning 'it's your responsibility' came from a Joni Mitchell song on Court and Spark. But then, she's Canadian and perhaps that blurs the difference.<br /><br />My feeling as a British speaker is that 'up to you' implies the future, as in a decision that is yours to make, while 'down to you' has an air of responsibility for something that has already happened. The 'down' usage also has an air to me of responsibility for something that might be disreputable, but perhaps that's from watching too many London-based crime dramas. It certainly wasn't in common usage in Manchester while I was growing up.PeterJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16395768714207313299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56352569134534573122011-06-20T01:25:49.811+01:002011-06-20T01:25:49.811+01:00When I say It's up to you I am ostensibly excl...<i>When I say <b>It's up to you</b> I am ostensibly excluding any judgement or advice.</i><br /><br />This accords with the two Corpus examples. The first is an extension of <i>I've done it</i>. The second contrasts with <i>I've had to stitch her teats and I'm afraid it's going to keep on happening</i>. This is an example, I suggest, of hidden pronouncement. The farmer is pretending not to be telling the vet his job, but actually doing just that by implication.<br /><br />None of the <i>down to you</i> examples that Lynne cites contain the word <i>I</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56704616145351861762011-06-20T01:07:11.084+01:002011-06-20T01:07:11.084+01:00When I say It's up to you I am ostensibly excl...When I say <i>It's up to you</i> I am ostensibly excluding any judgement or advice — although this may disguise an <b>unspoken</b> judgement.<br /><br />If I say <i>It's down to you</i>, I'm just making an observation. I am not involved, so there is no question of advice or judgement.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.com