tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post1693369706455832078..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: Britlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42131908718802353772020-05-13T19:47:31.278+01:002020-05-13T19:47:31.278+01:00As a 'Brit', I have never found the term i...As a 'Brit', I have never found the term in the least offensive. Irish nationalists used it pejoratively, but British soldiers enthusiastically embraced it, so neutralising the insult. If we can call Danish people 'Danes', and Swedish people 'Swedes', it seems to make perfect sense to describe British people as 'Brits'. We seldom use it ourselves only because political devolution has made us less British and more English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14562725469037782792019-07-21T15:31:13.616+01:002019-07-21T15:31:13.616+01:00Nobody mentioned the Australians. I always thought...Nobody mentioned the Australians. I always thought they were responsible for popularizing the term ‘Brit’, possibly starting in the 70’s. In fact, I thought the word was a recent invention, but it seems not.Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08492772328790397147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54856334700825235242019-03-10T14:40:32.300+00:002019-03-10T14:40:32.300+00:00Things look very different when you live as an exp...Things look very different when you live as an expatriate alongside other expatriates. Most of us find that we have much in common with Americans, Australians and other English speakers. But there are much closer connections between English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish.<br /><br />So yes, people from the Isle of Man share a British passport and look to the British Embassy for support. In extreme emergencies, Brits may look to the American Embassy for support. And similarly, Irish people may accept support from the British Embassy — but that doesn't make them Brits.<br /><br />Left to ourselves, we might use the unabbreviated <i>British</i>. But <i>Brit</i> is what other people call us. As Lynne found, American use the term a lot — often with affection, in my experience. For understandable historical reasons, many Irish people use it with the opposite of affection.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-48293726544903403812019-03-10T08:29:14.948+00:002019-03-10T08:29:14.948+00:00I dislike the term "Brit". It is a lazy ...I dislike the term "Brit". It is a lazy abbreviation and not a label I appreciate. I am first and foremost a Yorkshireman, next I am an Englishman. I do not like being bracketed with Welsh, Northern Irish and Scottish people. Are people from The Isle of Man "Brits" or something else? The Republic of Ireland is in The British Isles so are Irish people "Brits"?Yorkshire Puddinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06019673884543913089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21906033149103661492015-04-25T22:49:29.503+01:002015-04-25T22:49:29.503+01:00From Belfast and when the word brit is used it is ...From Belfast and when the word brit is used it is offensive. It8 is used with hatred. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79873519830237513482014-04-11T19:02:45.166+01:002014-04-11T19:02:45.166+01:00I'm puzzled by the reference to ex-pats of the...I'm puzzled by the reference to <i>ex-pats of the wrong kind</i>. Expats of <b>all</b> kinds tend to need an identifying term to use in English speaking circles where they socialise with people from all over the world.<br /><br />I'm English, but I only use the term in other parts of the UK or Ireland. Here it serves to <b>exclude</b> Scots etc. Other places where I've lived I've wanted to <b>include</b> them. As several have pointed out, in most countries it could be understood by the locals as either English or British. <b>Briton</b> is ridiculous and <i>a British</i> is what we teach foreigners not to say.<br /><br />This and other forums where English speakers from all over the world hang out are just like those expatriate circles where I learnt to call myself a <b>Brit</b>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31072363671011502262014-04-11T18:37:00.917+01:002014-04-11T18:37:00.917+01:00What on Earth happened there? I'd decided tha...What on Earth happened there? I'd decided that my first, anonymous comment, which I submitted three days ago, must have got lost in the Google workings, (as sometimes happens), so I rewrote it and submitted it again. The computer then froze up and I had to switch it off at the wall. When I looked at the site again, the first, three-day-old, anonymous comment was suddenly here, but not the one I had just posted. And now they are both here, making me look rather foolish. Lynne, I'd be grateful if you would delete both this message and one of those two previous ones (either one, your choice). Thanks. Graham. Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11318261524816301392014-04-11T17:37:43.599+01:002014-04-11T17:37:43.599+01:00Until I came across these comments I had no idea t...Until I came across these comments I had no idea that using the word 'Briton' would make me sound like a pompous Colonel Blimp. Oh.<br /><br />I just thought it was the correct term. I have been blithely using it all my life. I suppose I ought to stop using it now, but I don't know what word to use instead.<br /><br />I agree with all the reasons others have given for disliking the word 'Brit'. 'Britisher' seems marginally better, but only very marginally. I actually think I prefer 'Pom' to either of those. It feels more natural, for all its pejorative undertones.<br /><br />Perhaps, as commenter Simon suggested above, we should invent a new word.<br /><br />Britainian?<br />Britannican?<br />Albionite?<br />Blightior?<br />Wescconien? (<b>WE</b>lsh+<b>SC</b>ots+<b>CO</b>rnish+<b>NI</b>rish+<b>EN</b>glish)<br />Jeebier?<br />Yukaynik?<br /><br />It's a puzzle, but it might not be for long.<br /><br />The whole problem could go away later this year when the Scots hold their independence referendum.<br /><br />If they vote 'yes' in September then Britain will cease to exist. Terms denoting a person from Britain will then be of no more than historical interest, like terms denoting people from Yugoslavia or Prussia.Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24416896957924728932014-04-08T06:12:39.747+01:002014-04-08T06:12:39.747+01:00I dislike 'Brit' for all the reasons other...I dislike 'Brit' for all the reasons others have given, and up until now I have always happily used 'Briton'. I had no idea that people viewed the word as pompous and Colonel-Blimpish. I may have to stop using it.<br /><br />Anyhow, this whole problem may go away later this year. If the Scots vote for independence in September, Britain will cease to exist, so there will no longer be a need for a word to describe its citizens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22204674419165573862012-03-20T19:22:05.054+00:002012-03-20T19:22:05.054+00:00Ella:
"The only people I've ever heard d...Ella:<br /><br />"The only people I've ever heard describe themselves as 'Brits' are *those* kind of expats."<br /><br />What do you mean by "those"? I presume it's something negative, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. Personality? ??Rayellenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75881005142884706952007-11-29T21:44:00.000+00:002007-11-29T21:44:00.000+00:00I happily refer to myself as a Brit, in a casual c...I happily refer to myself as a Brit, in a casual context, and where that's a meaningful distinction to make. (On a forum inhabited by a mix of Americans and British, for instance, it makes it clear which of those two groups I fall in). If I wanted to get more specific, I'm English. I think of it as a casual abbreviation rather than an insulting one. I wouldn't fill it in as my nationality on a form.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40338527934518315362007-09-16T15:48:00.000+01:002007-09-16T15:48:00.000+01:00Naming the areas of the UK and Ireland is confusin...Naming the areas of the UK and Ireland is confusing to say the least. Technicaly the Irish are Brits also as they live in the geographical region of the 'British Isles'.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11732952690084059060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4299257177744388222007-09-08T06:23:00.000+01:002007-09-08T06:23:00.000+01:00When I started reading this post, I thought you we...When I started reading this post, I thought you were going to expound on the mead month (honeymoon). (So-called, I'm told, because honeyed mead was believed to be good for fertility. Though I suspect drinking mead and having lots of previously-suppressed sex played a role...)Rick Rutledgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07841387396066025560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34195573986217062632007-08-25T05:25:00.000+01:002007-08-25T05:25:00.000+01:00Several people have already pointed out other exam...Several people have already pointed out other examples of "countries within countries", contrary to Bill's suggestion that the UK may be unique in this regard. Canada calls its native peoples "First Nations", and it is possible to be Chinese (a citizen of China) without being Chinese (of the Han race); China has many so-called "minority nationalities" such as Mongolians. Some of these, such as many Tibetans, would prefer not to be part of China at all.<BR/><BR/>The point of all this seems to be that labels for race and nationality can rarely be defined with precision, since their usage has more to do with how individuals perceive themselves than with any linguistic rules.Private Beachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655349659024692101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74812054725844020012007-08-19T13:16:00.000+01:002007-08-19T13:16:00.000+01:00Here are the first fifteen hits from the British N...Here are the first fifteen hits from the British National Corpus. As you can see, only occasionally derogatory. There are 142 examples in the corpus so it is quite common on British usage.<BR/><BR/><I>The music is that perfect staple of pub rock, good old Brit R'n'B, which was nurtured and cultivated in Wilko's home-town of<BR/><BR/> be published next year by Bloomsbury. FACT FILE Flights: Brit Air (01-499 9511) offers daily direct services from Gatwick to<BR/><BR/> a couple of weeks later, Betty popped up on the BRIT awards. No prizes for guessing what she was wearing. The<BR/><BR/> embodiment of radiant motherhood, arrives, smiling, at the BRIT awards If you're going to have one, then have a<BR/><BR/> in question frames an elegant response: "Ferkauf, yer Brit eejut." Or words to that effect. The crestfallen minister<BR/><BR/> in a pretend chariot and Otley as Venutius, the belligerent Brit, consort of our Brigantian Queen Cartimandua. "The Celts did<BR/><BR/> about efforts like the PDQ. "If you give a Brit a couple of cans of epoxy, some bits of plywood and<BR/><BR/> and fax culture collide Florida is the place most of the Brit tourists go. Julie Moline offers a guide to its endless attractions<BR/><BR/>but selfishly draws all your regard to itself. (Brit. Birds, Vol. i p. 509)". This intrinsically<BR/><BR/> doyens of the civilized globe. These days, the average Brit's idea of a crime was a drunken assault on a Pakistan<BR/><BR/> " On the other side of the road lived another Brit I'd met in France. The house overlooked Off-the-Wall, the<BR/><BR/> pick up the linguistic and social markers that pin the native Brit down like so many Lilliputian bonds. Subtle but damning variations of<BR/><BR/> Erm … The next release from Maestro Alex Gregory, ex-pat Brit, self-styled justice commando and complete, authentic nutter is rumoured to<BR/><BR/> there are many English people who consider Hendrix an "Honourary Brit". "It was certainly in England that he made it<BR/><BR/> this poem, Angel. It's all about a crushing Brit defeat. "A hurry of hooves on the village street,</I>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952564820382472228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18081030633656931022007-08-17T11:17:00.000+01:002007-08-17T11:17:00.000+01:00Well, as far as I remember, people from the USSR w...Well, as far as I remember, people from the USSR were known as "Soviets," which makes no sense when considering what the word soviet means in Russian (roughly, council or committee, as far as I know), but much sense when you consider how many of them were Ukrainian, Kazakh, Lithuanian etc. Same issue as calling British people "English."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60352921973883819262007-08-15T04:30:00.000+01:002007-08-15T04:30:00.000+01:00I've heard the argument that people from the USA s...I've heard the argument that people from the USA should not be called <I>Americans</I> because it's the <I>United States</I> of America. But that argument strikes me as extremely faulty. Do we call people from the PR of China <I>People's Republicans</I>? Were people from the USSR <I>Unionist Republicans</I>? People from the Federal Republic of Brazil are not called <I>Federal Republicans</I>. The main name of the country is <I>America</I>, and it just so happens to have a lot in common with the names of two continents. But just as it doesn't make it wrong to call people from Johannesburg <I>South Africans</I> (even though people from Botswana and Swaziland are in the south of Africa too), the fact that there are other things with <I>America</I> in their names doesn't make it wrong to call people from the United States of America <I>Americans</I>.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17769222084917636472007-08-15T02:38:00.000+01:002007-08-15T02:38:00.000+01:00johnb wrote:> And in Jan's case - she says she is ...johnb wrote:<BR/>> And in Jan's case - she says she is writing a column on English usage, and then knowingly mis-uses words. I don't know her publication - but I assume with that quality of work, it must be on a par with the Sun.<BR/><BR/>You just ignore him, Jan! :-}<BR/><BR/>Johnb, <I>that was a bit harsh</I>! :-} : Jan is notable journalist on the Boston Globe, a newspaper that predates the London Sun by 92 years, and so far as I know does not sport photos of bare-breasted women on its page three. <BR/><BR/>Jan has a keen interest in the use of our language and writes intelligently and with knowledge. I commend her. See her articles, for example, here:<BR/><BR/>www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/brainiac/word/<BR/><BR/>She also gains my admiration for her coining the word 'peevologist', which she identifies in the following way:<BR/><BR/><I>Shouldn't those who collect language peeves, rather than studying them, have a name that reflects the irrational, obsessive side of the pursuit?</I><BR/><BR/>:-}Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54305638290814630092007-08-14T14:39:00.000+01:002007-08-14T14:39:00.000+01:00johnb said..."Bad usage and proud of it?"Now I nev...johnb said...<BR/>"Bad usage and proud of it?"<BR/><BR/>Now I never said I was proud of it...it is just part of the vernacular. Lots of terms are inaccurate when you really look at them, yet are still used in certain areas. Native Americans are still called Indians in many places and it is widely known to be thoroughly inaccurate. (Even the new museum in Washington DC which is curated by native tribes is called the Museum of the American Indian) And there are many more examples that I am sure can be examined by people who know much more about language than I do.<BR/><BR/>And to David's comment...<BR/>That is the problem with our country being named "The United States of America" Technically we should not directly be called "Americans" probably something like "Staties" or "Statesmen" would be more accurate. Which both sound silly and slightly derogatory. (Of course this is after 231 years of hearing "American.")<BR/>But the way this is "solved" is by using <I>North</I> American for the US, Canada and Mexico, although Mexico is often considered Central America die to it's cultural similarities with the rest of that area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22334834824576989312007-08-14T09:11:00.000+01:002007-08-14T09:11:00.000+01:00@flatlander:"cmluCameron said... Americans would g...@flatlander:<BR/>"cmluCameron said... <BR/>Americans would get rightly upset if we started calling them all Canadians ...<BR/><BR/>No no, my dear. Americans would be amused (and generally complimented) by this."<BR/><BR/>Which Americans? How do USers react to the notion that 'American' includes natives and citizens of every region from Hudson Bay to Tierra del Fuego?<BR/><BR/>My impression is that there's a certain possessiveness about it, and that some people would be upset about having to 'dilute' the brand by extending it to natives and to speakers of languages other than English. So if the BBC started referring to peoples of the Americas as Americans, I expect there'd be complaints from the US about being lumped indistinguishably in the manner of Brit/on/s. There might also complaints from Venezuela, Cuba, Argentina & elsewhere about suddenly being saddled with some of the US's foreign policy baggage...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3963929150200392192007-08-13T20:55:00.000+01:002007-08-13T20:55:00.000+01:00Bill Said ..."And it is not ignorance really, beca...Bill Said ...<BR/>"And it is not ignorance really, becasue I, (and Jan more than likely) know the difference, yet I will routinely use the term "British Accent" knowing full well that in reality, there is no such thing. "<BR/><BR/>That just makes it worse really. Bad usage and proud of it? If ignorance isn't the excuse for that, what is? <BR/><BR/>And in Jan's case - she says she is writing a column on English usage, and then knowingly mis-uses words. I don't know her publication - but I assume with that quality of work, it must be on a par with the Sun. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90171289809012167632007-08-13T16:27:00.000+01:002007-08-13T16:27:00.000+01:00cmluCameron said... Americans would get rightly up...cmluCameron said... <BR/>Americans would get rightly upset if we started calling them all Canadians ...<BR/><BR/>No no, my dear. Americans would be amused (and generally complimented) by this. If you reverse it, however... oy vey!<BR/><BR/>Your American cousins are not the only ones ignorant of the UK/Britain/England distinction. I learned it years ago from an English-born university professor who admitted she only learned it during her postgraduate studies.flatlanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14711270206823934186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-53842222551462570722007-08-13T15:41:00.000+01:002007-08-13T15:41:00.000+01:00"Cameron said... Jan, you would need a different t..."Cameron said... <BR/>Jan, you would need a different term for the people anyway, becaue "English" and "British" are NOT synonyms"<BR/><BR/>But this was the point that I was making a few posts ago...to the "average" American...they ARE synonyms. Therefore, her using it plays to her audience...And I think we all know that perception plays a lot in interpretation of words...<BR/>Now this is of course not saying that it is correct, obviously. However, this particular bit of American language is a pervasive one that I don't think people from the UK really pick up on unless it is really pointed out.<BR/>To Americans, there is not a lot of time studying the differences between "The United Kingdom", "Great Britain", "Britain", and "England" Not to mention Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Another thing to consider is that if you showed most Americans an English Flag noone would know what it was...but The Union Jack is immediately recognizable.<BR/>And it is not ignorance really, becasue I, (and Jan more than likely) know the difference, yet I will routinely use the term "British Accent" knowing full well that in reality, there is no such thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66404778116497055032007-08-13T12:04:00.000+01:002007-08-13T12:04:00.000+01:00Jan, you would need a different term for the peopl...Jan, you would need a different term for the people anyway, becaue "English" and "British" are NOT synonyms. There are more of us who use British English than just the English. I don't mean to sound Colonel Blimpish about this, but Americans would get rightly upset if we started calling them all Canadians on the basis that, after all, they are all in North America. Americans are not Canadians, and people from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not English.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69598121765584631802007-08-12T15:36:00.000+01:002007-08-12T15:36:00.000+01:00As an American (in Yankee Boston) writing a newspa...As an American (in Yankee Boston) writing a newspaper column about English usage, I have found "Brit" indispensable (though I consulted with our Irish-descended British bureau chief before using it). When the subject is the English language (and I'm not allowed to use BrE and AmE -- too technical for a general audience), "English" becomes the term for the language, naturally -- so I need a different term for the people. It's a casually written column, so "Britons" and "British" sound a bit formal (and yes, I have said "we Yanks," meaning Americans). <BR/><BR/>A more specific/accurate term is generally unnecessary for my purposes; I'm usually just pointing out to my fellow Yanks that many other English speakers, including those who gave us the language, say things differently -- and that that doesn't make them wrong. <BR/><BR/>(My fellow Americans often need this reminder -- at least the ones who go around looking for excuses to be offended at someone else's usage. Of course, this isn't just an American trait, is it?) <BR/><BR/>Jan (freeman at globe.com)Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03173219179480606941noreply@blogger.com