tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post2102832278971186263..comments2024-03-28T16:11:36.465+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: dandelion clocklynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30177175388063750672018-06-19T09:02:16.678+01:002018-06-19T09:02:16.678+01:00I was watching the children's programme "...I was watching the children's programme "Where in the World" and discovered that, in Russia, what you do is blow all the seeds off and then try to catch them (like we in the UK would try to catch a falling leaf in the autumn); apparently the number of seeds you catch will tell you the number of letters you are (probably not) going to receive!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1079559841476339512018-06-13T14:43:00.838+01:002018-06-13T14:43:00.838+01:00I just came across your blog while looking to read...I just came across your blog while looking to read up on this phrase as I’ve come across it twice recently in books. One book was by an American author and one by a British author. My kids call them “wishy dandelions.” I think they’ll love the idea of counting puffs to tell time. Thanks for the great info! As an American fan of much British television and literature, I’ll be adding this blog to my newsreader. Dawn0fTimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09514011605453490792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64541083760420204062017-02-21T22:43:43.832+00:002017-02-21T22:43:43.832+00:00We used to do that with buttercups (ranunculus), o...We used to do that with buttercups (ranunculus), only as buttercups didn't grow where we lived, we had to make do with kingcups (Caltha palustris), which were NOT THE SAME.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76956398176866387022017-02-21T22:16:05.039+00:002017-02-21T22:16:05.039+00:00No, as Anonymous noted below, the North American g...No, as Anonymous noted below, the North American game is to see if you can blow them all off in one breath (very hard to do!). What does "telling time" entail?<br /><br />The other dandelion game that was popular in the schoolyard when I (Canadian, late 20s) was a small child was to use a flowering dandelion to tell if someone liked butter. You'd hold the dandelion under their chin, and if the yellow color reflected back onto their chin, then it was said they liked butter. Why anyone would care to divine another person's preference for butter remains a mystery :PCanadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46954026232664789842016-11-01T23:58:58.506+00:002016-11-01T23:58:58.506+00:00@Lynne - the 1841 US source is from a magazine aim...@Lynne - the 1841 US source is <a href="http://hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.32044092812759?urlappend=%3Bseq=114" rel="nofollow">from a magazine aimed at children</a>. So I agree it doesn't show that the phrase was necessary a matter of common knowledge, but it suggests that it would not have been unknown to adults.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3556609596633726962016-10-31T12:49:01.341+00:002016-10-31T12:49:01.341+00:00I think you've pretty much nailed it, David (a...I think you've pretty much nailed it, David (and no "spilling mistakes", either!). If I were going split hairs, I'd say that "amusement" is more apt than "pastime".<br /><br />I'm not sure that Grover is good authority for any assertions about the precise meaning, though! Her first pic should really have been of a dandelion in its more recognisable, flowering state probably, shouldn't it?<br /><br />Thinking again about the alternative names for the <i>prairie dandelion</i>, it's ironic, isn't it, that, in the official language of the USA, the indigenous species is labelled "false", while the interloper is "common". It would be interesting to know the names for the two varieties in various aboriginal languages.Zouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7233003024894059322016-10-30T18:59:46.688+00:002016-10-30T18:59:46.688+00:00filamentous achenes
The way Wiktionary works, you...<b>filamentous achenes</b><br /><br />The way Wiktionary works, you only have to click on one or other of these obscure words to see a definition.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11402461769147749172016-10-30T18:35:06.069+00:002016-10-30T18:35:06.069+00:00In an attempt to emulate Grover, I've altered ...In an attempt to emulate Grover, I've altered the Wiktionary entry. Let's see if it's accepted by the community.<br /><br />BEFORE<br />1. The white seed head of a dandelion after flowering.<br />2. A children's amusement in which the number of puffs needed to blow the filamentous achenes from a dandelion is supposed to tell the time.<br /><br />AFTER MY FIRST AMENDMENT<br />1. The downy seed head of a dandelion after flowering, as used in the children's game described below.<br />2. <i>as before</i><br /><br />AFTER MORE DRASTIC REVISION<br />A single stem of a dandelion in its post-flowering state with the downy covering of its head intact. The term is used when the flower is used, or is thought of as suitable for use, in a children's pastime by which the number of puffs needed to blow the filamentous achenes from a dandelion is supposed to tell the time.<br /><br />No doubt it can be improved. If you're up for it, have a go yourself.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2473836468407801942016-10-30T18:28:12.832+00:002016-10-30T18:28:12.832+00:00Alerted by Zouk's observation, I been arguing ...Alerted by Zouk's observation, I been arguing in Wiktionary that <b> dandelion clock</b> should not be deleted as a discrete entry.<br /><br />The definition had numerous faults, and as I powered on how to make improvements I realised that the professional lexicographers at OUP hadn't really cracked it to my satisfaction. In fact<br /><br /><i><b>Grover did a better job than the dictionaries!</b></i><br /><br />She captured several truths (Well, I think they're true) that are ignored or obscured by the lexicographers, both amateur and professional.<br /><br />1. A <i>dandelion clock</i> comprises the stem as well as the head.<br />—— clearly shown in Grover's picture as reproduced by Lynne<br /><br />2. It's only one stem.<br />—— as Grover showed<br /><br />3. The association with time-telling is integral. The state of the head is not a separable concept.<br />—— shown by Grover's combination of the two images<br /><br />The only possible improvement is probably a little beyond Grover's drawing skills <i>viz</i> a pair of lips blowing.<br /><br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87435910213816541192016-10-30T13:44:55.017+00:002016-10-30T13:44:55.017+00:00David
Thanks for the info, but I'd be very di...David<br /><br />Thanks for the info, but I'd be very diffident about editing on such a site, given the number of mistakes I make (as evidenced in my comments to this blog!)<br /><br />I'm not sure what amendment you made, but I see you've referenced this blogpost in arguing for non-deletion.<br /><br />Btw, following the links in Wiktionary to the Am and Br definitions in Oxford Dictionaries, I notice the US link redirects to the British definition.<br /><br />I'm not at all sure that "game" is really the word to describe the practice of "telling the time" by dandelion clocks, so I'm dubious about the second definition, but perhaps my sense of the word's meaning is too narrow?Zouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34512410514914976642016-10-30T12:08:03.473+00:002016-10-30T12:08:03.473+00:00Zouk, as well as adding a couple of comments at th...Zouk, as well as adding a couple of comments at the <b>Request for deletion</b> page, I've now altered the entry a little. Let's see if anybody undoes my alteration. It really is all democratic — you should consider trying it.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25983671697230606712016-10-29T21:23:43.076+01:002016-10-29T21:23:43.076+01:00Google books has one 19th century example that I c...Google books has one 19th century example that I can see. From an 1865 London-published collection of songs and stories, <a href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Rs8BAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22Dandelion+clock*%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwif362464DQAhWkI8AKHckSBu4Q6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=clock&f=false" rel="nofollow">The Dandelion Clock</a>lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-746831427816764612016-10-29T21:19:47.244+01:002016-10-29T21:19:47.244+01:00@VP: The next words after 'dandelion clock'...@VP: The next words after 'dandelion clock' in the (1841) US source is "Pray what are they?", indicating that the phrase did not have currency in the US. The first OED citation is 1876 from a British magazine, and presents it as if people know what they are. <br />It is the kind of phrase that is likely to have more spoken currency than written, but there isn't much indication here that it ever had much spoken currency in the US.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84795825329839217272016-10-29T20:34:14.790+01:002016-10-29T20:34:14.790+01:00You don't need authority, Zouk. What you do is...You don't need authority, Zouk. What you do is go to<br /><br /><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion#dandelion_clock" rel="nofollow">Requests for deletion</a><br /><br />and click on, in this case, <br /><br /><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion#dandelion_clock" rel="nofollow">7.44 Dandelion clock</a><br /><br />Provided that you have subscribed to Wiktionary or Wikipedia, you simply click <b>[edit]</b> and add your comment. If you haven't subscribed, it's an easy process — you don't need to profess any authority.<br /><br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84678152759527685182016-10-29T16:27:41.032+01:002016-10-29T16:27:41.032+01:00Looking at it today, I notice the Wiktionary entry...Looking at it today, I notice the Wiktionary entry has been nominated for deletion. Perhaps if any readers of this blog have authority to edit there, they should intervene?<br /><br />Btw, the reference in <i>The Song of Hiawatha</i> is actually to the <a href="http://wildflowerswest.org/wavyleaf_dandelion_nothocalais_cuspidata.htm" rel="nofollow">Prairie Dandelion</a>, <i>nothocalais cuspidata</i>, <i>aka</i> the False Dandelion or Wavyleaf Dandelion, which is indigenous to North America, unlike its close relative the Common Dandelion, which was introduced. The Prairie Dandelion has seedheads which are similar to, but not the same as dandelion clocks, the achenes having thicker tufts (pictures at the link).<br /><br />If you try and stop dandelions taking over your lawn by plucking the flowers before they seed (the roots are almost impossible to pull up), you can't leave them to rot where they fall, as they still go to seed unattached. If you dispose of them in compost, they will germinate and start growing, but as long as you exclude light they will eventually die.Zouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54875867544730632192016-10-29T01:39:07.905+01:002016-10-29T01:39:07.905+01:00The phrase "dandelion clock" was certain...The phrase "dandelion clock" was certainly known in the US at one time. The citation given on <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dandelion_clock" rel="nofollow">the Wiktionary page linked by Lynne</a>, from 1841, is from a US source.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79993886369975132242016-10-28T20:06:38.919+01:002016-10-28T20:06:38.919+01:00There were a very few early mechanical clocks in C...There were a very few early mechanical clocks in China, but they were so complex and rare that they no longer worked by the time the Mongols showed up. Mechanical clocks as we know them date from around the early 14th century. On the other hand, there were water clocks and sundials before that, but those didn't have faces. Wikipedia says the common dandelion was imported into North America from Europe, but I guess dandelion clocks didn't make the trip. :)Kirk Poorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84281104762620519502016-10-28T13:08:03.249+01:002016-10-28T13:08:03.249+01:00Vp
Thanks for that nugget ... and in fact I was w...Vp<br /><br />Thanks for that nugget ... and in fact I was wrong anyway: there is the famous anachronism in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar (II; i; 191-3) where a clock strikes, mechanical clocks being unknown to the Romans, but clearly known in Shakespearean England, well before the foundation of the US.Zouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36164805357091361332016-10-28T10:01:11.206+01:002016-10-28T10:01:11.206+01:00Idly googling "dandelion clock", I found...Idly googling "dandelion clock", I found the following story by the Victorian writer Mrs Ewing. http://www.telelib.com/authors/E/EwingJulianaHoratia/prose/marysmeadow/dandelionclocks.html<br />...which is actually set in the Netherlands but describes the 'use' of dandelion clocks (don't know whether the Dutch really do have that concept).Kate Buntinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17223976536411967222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52855849737219291102016-10-27T23:18:32.046+01:002016-10-27T23:18:32.046+01:00Wikipedia suggests the mechanical clock was invent...Wikipedia suggests the mechanical clock was invented in China around AD 725. So yes, there was no US at the time. Neither was there a unified England, the island of Great Britain being divided among the Anglo-Saxon heptarchy and various Celtic kingdoms.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27413218303131531682016-10-27T14:06:24.822+01:002016-10-27T14:06:24.822+01:00Goodness! How did you tell the time in the US befo...Goodness! How did you tell the time in the US before mechanical clocks? Oh, hang on, there wasn't a US then, was there?*<br /><br />Seriously, though, we here in SE England also called them "dandelion clocks" as kids, and used them to "tell the time".<br /><br />*There were dandelions, though, unless Longfellow really screwed up: see <i>The Song of Hiawatha</i>, 2, "Shawondasee, fat and lazy ..."<br />Zouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80538542693259482302016-10-26T16:47:09.205+01:002016-10-26T16:47:09.205+01:00Mrs. Redboots - no, American children try to blow ...Mrs. Redboots - no, American children try to blow all the white things off in one breath.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76072441413543870932016-10-25T23:35:06.350+01:002016-10-25T23:35:06.350+01:00My town (possibly just the neighborhood kids my mo...My town (possibly just the neighborhood kids my mother played with and now us kids) call dandelion puffs foo-ty foos. Foo pronounced like the band Foo Fighters. Have no idea where it came from and haven't heard anyone else refer to it as that. Also, I always have a hard time explaining to people what I mean when I say that. I usually say something like "oh you know the old dandelions that you can blow on".<br /><br />For reference, I'm from a small town in West Virginia on the Ohio River.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16494597035262417477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14280207802872486892016-10-25T21:58:46.904+01:002016-10-25T21:58:46.904+01:00Definitely a dandelion clock. Don't American ...Definitely a dandelion clock. Don't American children "tell the time" with them? <br /><br />Interestingly, if you look on the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_(disambiguation)" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia clock disambiguation page</a> - I was looking for "stocking clocks" for you - they give dandelion clocks as one of the options.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69161798822278191082016-10-24T21:30:23.134+01:002016-10-24T21:30:23.134+01:00I've always used the "he loves me, he lov...I've always used the "he loves me, he loves me not" for pulling the petals off a flower rather than blowing a dandelion.Hilltophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12744481968971493234noreply@blogger.com