tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post234323195111657110..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: up the albion!lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-85938357291085083432014-11-11T23:23:41.489+00:002014-11-11T23:23:41.489+00:00A football fan would know better than I do, but go...A football fan would know better than I do, but googling 'up arsenal' doesn't immediately lead to cheering-type phrases (just things like 'wind-up Arsenal'), whereas 'up the Arsenal' does (but it also leads to some bad puns).lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5786198161947099782014-11-11T17:39:45.057+00:002014-11-11T17:39:45.057+00:00Anyone of Irish or British descent that understand...Anyone of Irish or British descent that understands "Up the (blank)"<br /><br /><br />Does the phrase require "the" in it? <br /><br />Could you use "Up Arsenal" as opposed to "Up the Arse" or "Up Ireland" instead of "Up the Irish"Section1Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13451765211730086805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-49564500658029068412013-04-11T20:16:52.251+01:002013-04-11T20:16:52.251+01:00The BrE comments by Crosbie and Collins seem to ag...The BrE comments by Crosbie and Collins seem to agree with my English mindset, rather than the AmE one.Clydesdale Jeffersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631644050118490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34970169050150098702013-04-11T20:14:23.489+01:002013-04-11T20:14:23.489+01:00No, I'm interested, especially in the way you ...No, I'm interested, especially in the way you are approaching it, as I've said on Twitter. I wonder how many BrE football fans would think the AmE way? What about "Up, Guards and at 'em!", cited by OED as an example of "up" as an adverb?Clydesdale Jeffersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631644050118490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-43640538645344707582013-04-11T15:17:42.471+01:002013-04-11T15:17:42.471+01:00Possible similar to up+SUBJECT is away+SUBJECT.
O...Possible similar to <i>up+SUBJECT</i> is <i>away+SUBJECT</i>.<br /><br />OK, <i>Away dull care!</i> may involve a vocative. But surely the Geordie (Newcastle) cry <i>Away the lads!</i> is much the same as <i>Up the lads!</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75244923128124870432013-04-11T12:24:18.482+01:002013-04-11T12:24:18.482+01:00Adverbs don't take noun objects, though.
Per...<i>Adverbs don't take noun objects, though. </i><br /><br />Perhaps they do in military orders, or in paraphrases of military orders. <br /><br /><i>Forward the Blues!<br />Steady the Buffs!</i><br /><br />Perhaps <i>Up the whatever!</i> is a blend of this structure and the meaning of the <i>Up/Down <b>with</b> whatever!</i> formula<br /><br />This pair with figurative senses of <i>up</i> and <i>down</i> is a special case of the usually literal <i>PREPOSITIONAL ADVERB OF PLACE MOVEMENT with the whatever!</i>.<br /><br /><i>Off with his head!<br />Down with the blinds!<br />Out with you wallet!<br />In with the detergent!</i><br /><br />Even with other adverbials the structure delivers the message if the meaning of the non-existent verb is sufficiently obvious.<br /><br /><i>Gently with that vase!<br />More cheerfully with the first aria!</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66168907206893455452013-04-10T16:14:17.554+01:002013-04-10T16:14:17.554+01:00Adverbs may 'not take noun objects' exactl...Adverbs may 'not take noun objects' exactly but they do collocate with nouns as in 'boldly the Blues' or 'handsomely, men'. It is short for 'play boldly, move upwards, lower it handsomely' etc.Clydesdale Jeffersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631644050118490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26564972860946943362013-04-10T16:08:50.121+01:002013-04-10T16:08:50.121+01:00It is definitely not a verb. The speaker has in mi...It is definitely not a verb. The speaker has in mind "upwards [my team]". I can assure you of this as someone who has been part of many an "Up the Hammers" chant. Nothing to do with "up yours" etc, although that is not a verb either, but a preposition with verb understood or deleted.Clydesdale Jeffersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631644050118490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72131279706320470502013-04-10T10:37:57.373+01:002013-04-10T10:37:57.373+01:00Adverbs don't take noun objects, though. Prepo...Adverbs don't take noun objects, though. Prepositions or verbs do, so there remains the question of how it comes to take a noun phrase. <br /><br />This looks like other BrE cheers like 'Come on the Albion' or 'Go the Girl Guides', where the noun phrase isn't an object, but more of a vocative. (But it doesn't really act like a vocative either in terms of the intonation.)<br /><br />But since the other kinds of cheers of this pattern are verb-based (you don't get adverbial things like 'Fiercely the Albion' or 'Upwards the Albion', that I've seen), I tend to see 'up' as a verb here. But even the verb-based ones don't act like normal verbs. One wouldn't report the situation as 'The Albion really came on' or 'We went the Albion'. <br /><br />To get a bit technical about it, this seems to be a case where a construction grammar would explain the data better than a traditional phrase-structure grammar. But explaining what I mean by that requires far more time than I have now and far more interest than anybody reading probably has. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25747845985365806482013-04-09T23:16:36.345+01:002013-04-09T23:16:36.345+01:00In "Up the Albion" etc perhaps confusion...In "Up the Albion" etc perhaps confusion arises over whether "up" is a preposition or an adverb. Surely it is an adverb, giving the meaning "upwards", as in "onwards and upwards".Clydesdale Jeffersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14631644050118490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89442714508748816122012-06-10T19:50:05.773+01:002012-06-10T19:50:05.773+01:00My mother consistently lied about her age, but som...My mother consistently lied about her age, but sometime after her death I realised that she'd been a little girl in the suffragette era. No doubt this explains why whenever female a contestant triumphed in a radio or TV quiz show she'd exclaim in a pleased but un-agitated manner <i>'Up the women!'</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25575863613634994892012-06-10T13:11:28.938+01:002012-06-10T13:11:28.938+01:00To my BrE ear, the phrase "up yours" is ...To my BrE ear, the phrase "up yours" is a one-off, and not connected to the generic form "up [noun]", so the confusion would never occur.<br /><br />As <a href="https://twitter.com/Taversham/status/211639115995811841" rel="nofollow">pointed out by @Taversham on Twitter</a>, it's a different grammatical construction: "up theirs" might sound obscene (although I can't think of an example in the 3rd person like that) but "up them" doesn't.<br /><br />Although now you've put the connection in my head, I'll probably start noticing the alternative meaning everywhere...Rowan Tomminshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501625256059457499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89456087615844552182007-06-28T19:56:00.000+01:002007-06-28T19:56:00.000+01:00you obviously aren't a metal fan: this is similar ...you obviously aren't a metal fan: this is similar to the universal iron maiden cheer: up the irons!<BR/><BR/>not surprising from a british band, but the term is international.Max Polunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11519783946536128217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12977422544021256532007-05-22T00:31:00.000+01:002007-05-22T00:31:00.000+01:00We don't have a full set of lyrics for the BHotR, ...We don't have a full set of lyrics for the BHotR, we just repeat the line 3 times followed by "United marches on". We <I>do</I> have full lyrics for a chant sung to <I>My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean</I>, but I'll forbear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-85779189060636574022007-05-21T22:52:00.000+01:002007-05-21T22:52:00.000+01:00I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the ve...I'm surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the version of this slogan that it used by fans of the London team Arsenal. See, for instance, <A HREF="http://www.upthearse.net/" REL="nofollow">this fanzine</A>.<BR/><BR/>(Then again, perhaps someone has and it was censored.)SPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05367562120686067753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61655134696834907492007-05-21T20:50:00.000+01:002007-05-21T20:50:00.000+01:00Hi rick, thanks for that.Funny that thumbs up is o...Hi rick, thanks for that.<BR/><BR/>Funny that thumbs up is okay in English speaking countries, but I understand you'll end up in hospital if you give an Italian the thumbs up! Okay that's not linguistical, but geatures are a form of communication, too!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2519775073741115862007-05-21T17:27:00.000+01:002007-05-21T17:27:00.000+01:00You didn't recognise "Battle Hymn of the Republic"...You didn't recognise "Battle Hymn of the Republic"? Maybe you recognise it with these lyrics:<BR/><BR/>He jumped from 30 000 feet without a parachute<BR/>He jumped from 30 000 feet without a parachute<BR/>He jumped from 30 000 feet without a parachute, and he ain't gonna jump no moooore...<BR/><BR/>Or alternatively John Brown's body, for the more traditionally minded. But no, not the "f*ing ambulance" tune I'm familiar with.Johnny Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02332149992788801634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76790283357675567422007-05-21T10:57:00.000+01:002007-05-21T10:57:00.000+01:00Let's not give the addled Mr Doherty too much cred...Let's not give the addled Mr Doherty too much credit... Albion is an ancient name for Britain/England, and has been used by poets to refer to this island for centuries. Several football clubs use the name.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34680998664872980932007-05-21T10:47:00.000+01:002007-05-21T10:47:00.000+01:00No no no no no! The Albion is a mythical, wonderfu...No no no no no! The Albion is a mythical, wonderful place full of Libertines and park benches and cigarettes! Honestly, it is!<BR/><BR/>Um, okay. Let me explain. There was The Libertines, a band. Their frontmen Pete Doherty and Carl Barat had a romantic, mythical vision of Albion and Arcadia, where freedom reigned and poets lived, blahblahblah. Of course it didn't quite work out like that, since the band split and Peter is still in the throes of an addiction to crack, but still, it's a nice vision and one which Libertines fans get quite carried away with. The Libs also have a song called Albion - also recorded by Peter's new band, Babyshambles. The lyrics are <A HREF="http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Albion-lyrics-The-Libertines/F3BA7822919A82D548256F180007FDAF" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<BR/><BR/>I can't think of anything else when I hear 'Albion'. It is one of the best parts of being a Libs fan :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52727086812780267092007-05-21T10:14:00.000+01:002007-05-21T10:14:00.000+01:00I'm Irish-American, but I've never heard 'Up the I...I'm Irish-American, but I've never heard 'Up the Irish'. There are some hits via Google, but they're hard to separate from things like "sail up the Irish sea" and the like. I wonder if <I>Up the Irish</I> is better known in places with more recent Irish immigration (Boston, NYC) than elsewhere?<BR/><BR/>BH wasn't singing the ambulance chant to the Battle Hymn of the Republic tune. It wasn't any tune I recognised. If you're singing it to the BHotR tune, RS, I presume you have a longer set of lyrics?lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26818512042175860482007-05-21T06:00:00.000+01:002007-05-21T06:00:00.000+01:00My DC United supporters group (not really a "firm"...My DC United supporters group (not really a "firm") sings "You are going home in a fucking ambulance" to the tune of <I>The Battle Hymn of the Republic</I> ("Mine eyes have seen the glory..."). Was that the rhythm your Better Half demonstrated?<BR/><BR/>flashgordonnz, I think that use of "ups" comes from "thumbs up". It's a shortening similar to "props" and if I'm not mistaken comes from the same community. (I'm not sure what "props" is a shortening of though; "proper respect" is my best guess.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80038211749119491782007-05-21T01:45:00.000+01:002007-05-21T01:45:00.000+01:00WHat is the "ups" as in "ANd I want to give a big ...WHat is the "ups" as in "ANd I want to give a big ups to my parents"? It is respectful, bur what does it comefrom "be upstanding"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17625149048371343662007-05-21T01:27:00.000+01:002007-05-21T01:27:00.000+01:00Irish-Americans (in which group I am included) hav...Irish-Americans (in which group I am included) have been saying "Up the Irish!" for a long time, probably since the migrations started in earnest after the Black '49. So I think that "up the <nationality>" in a positive sense is good AmE, though of course other short directives involving "up" are definitely negative.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61574588683566949012007-05-20T23:36:00.000+01:002007-05-20T23:36:00.000+01:00I am reminded of an American activity I'm associat...I am reminded of an American activity I'm associated with that divides itself into multiple sections, among them the East, West, and Middle. The "war cry" of the last named is "Up the Middle!" (intentionally hilarious, to Americans at least).Chris Laninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07574568785133002628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-45959394305373859052007-05-20T23:27:00.000+01:002007-05-20T23:27:00.000+01:00Heh. I laughed out loud a little when I read, "(w...Heh. I laughed out loud a little when I read, "(whereas increasingly abusive football chants are not)."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com