tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post2768882347937910699..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: well done thelynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-39352077291920323782014-07-18T14:28:57.189+01:002014-07-18T14:28:57.189+01:00In Irish sporting contexts fans shout:
"Up th...In Irish sporting contexts fans shout:<br />"Up the Banner!"<br />"Up the Kingdom!"<br />"Up the Royals!"<br />County Clare being 'the Banner County', Kerry 'the Kingdom' and Meath 'the Royal County' in inter-country Gaelic football and hurling. There are more examples in which the nickname of the country is pluralised - Cork are 'the rebels', and so on. Don't know if this is relevant!Ian Mac Eochagáinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08807587737403861042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60282606891166417692009-12-27T19:23:58.058+00:002009-12-27T19:23:58.058+00:00This BrE construction actually comes from our nati...This BrE construction actually comes from our national anthem which includes: "God save the queen." When we all get out of bed to stand and sing it as Radio 4 is closing down at night, we're not actually asking the deity to save the monarch from anything. Rather, it's a way of saying "cheers, your majesty" to an almost certainly sleeping sovereign. This anthem has also inspired "away the lads", used to encourage the Newcastle United football/soccer team. A parallel, vocative, form is "come on, you Spurs" where the non-standard "you" is inserted for metrical purposes. The "well done" in "well done the batters" is cognate with the "OK" in "skinheads rule OK", just stuck at the other end. These constructions are like mini-toasts - not the sort you can eat but the sort you say before you have a drink. They're a way of appearing to address someone whose absence precludes them from hearing you. They are perhaps also little spells cast over remote sportsmen. In old English epic verse, these expressions were arranged as pairs of half-lines. To the left of the caesura was the person being toasted, blessed or jinxed; to the right the benediction, oath or imprecation; in between, the mournful strum of a harp. Late into the medieval night the feudal loaf-ward would sit in his wicker mead-hall with his cringing vassals and thanes variously praising and condemning participants in the Anglo-Frisian Knockout League Cup sponsored, of course, by Iceland.Paul Danonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04816761952837296368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-50415059091595946212009-11-22T04:24:14.312+00:002009-11-22T04:24:14.312+00:00From the US... and I say "well done, you!&quo...From the US... and I say "well done, you!" (with comma as shown) and also "Hello, you!" and "What's up/What's good, you?" all of the time. <br /><br />The "well done the" thing reminds me of the kind of local intentional departure from rules of grammar I saw [or heard] when living in the American South (Charleston,SC.) There, educated people in good humor say, "You done good." Perhaps it's very like "the lads done well", rather than <i>did</i> well, only out of sequence? Though, probably not.curiouSolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900232353431787602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68555106600770311312009-11-20T08:18:47.105+00:002009-11-20T08:18:47.105+00:00"Well done you!" is definitely vocative,..."Well done you!" is definitely vocative, with no comma or pause for breath. Usually said on a rising intonation.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9227088344248586092009-11-19T22:31:58.129+00:002009-11-19T22:31:58.129+00:00Moreover, in "well done you", the "...Moreover, in "well done you", the "you" does not appear to be a vocative. As I heard it spoken in the movie/film, I don't believe there was a pause, as in "well done, you" (with comma).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16130778704746845383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44662380410641244872009-11-18T16:05:42.806+00:002009-11-18T16:05:42.806+00:00@Lew Lasher: "Well done you!" is very Br...@Lew Lasher: "Well done you!" is very British - an American would, I think, be more likely to say "Great job!" under similar circumstances.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79160119041337488892009-11-18T04:25:00.474+00:002009-11-18T04:25:00.474+00:00I had never heard "Well done you" in AmE...I had never heard "Well done you" in AmE. Tonight, I was watching the film "Happy-Go-Lucky" and noticed this in the dialogue.<br /><br />I was all set to report this here as another example of BrE that doesn't scan well in AmE, and now I see that Graham Asher has used that very phrase here. I'm assuming he is a BrE speaker?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16130778704746845383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35494665845705856172009-11-14T15:11:38.146+00:002009-11-14T15:11:38.146+00:00I thought of this thread today when I found myself...I thought of this thread today when I found myself commenting on a friend's Facebook,"Happy birthday your twins!", not "to your twins", as perhaps might have been more grammatically correct.<br /><br />I'm now wondering whether "Well done the lads" doesn't also have an understood "to" in there....Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47278554074496508232009-11-13T10:05:07.876+00:002009-11-13T10:05:07.876+00:00I (BrE) wonder if the "the" is being use...I (BrE) wonder if the "the" is being used to signify uniqueness.<br /><br />That is, "well done lads" addresses those lads who happen to be present, but "well done <i>the</i> lads" acknowledges that there are no other lads in the whole world, or at least none who are worth anyone's attention at the time the words are spoken.<br /><br />We say "The Blues" because there's only one regiment that the phrase can refer to. Saying "the lads" temporarily puts those lads into the same category: any other "lads" are mere pretenders.David Younghttp://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/davidy/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17596830691031533952009-11-12T17:25:23.712+00:002009-11-12T17:25:23.712+00:00Canada here: "well done the X" is comple...Canada here: "well done the X" is completely unknown to me. The closest I can attest is "Well done, you!" and that from an older generation.Aviatrixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13634111275860140084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88349846741806461982009-11-10T20:24:19.520+00:002009-11-10T20:24:19.520+00:00"Up the Gers", "up the Scots" ..."Up the Gers", "up the Scots" and even "up your kilt" are all pretty common here, too. What makes you so sure it's from IrE?<br /><br />By the way, ScE is a subset of BrE.Cameron MacDonald Gazzola Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460898271918397890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84757100746730406362009-11-10T19:36:18.585+00:002009-11-10T19:36:18.585+00:00Well done you for spotting this. Carry on!Well done you for spotting this. Carry on!Graham Ashernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52372264187393554642009-11-10T16:05:56.501+00:002009-11-10T16:05:56.501+00:00In the case of AmE in the hospital, the source is ...In the case of AmE <i>in the hospital</i>, the source is surely Hiberno-English rather than Scottish English or Scots, even Ulster Scots. Note that for <i>jail</i> and <i>school</i> the pattern is the same in AmE as in BrE (EE?): Elvis was in the jail for a while, but never in jail.<br /><br />I've commented about "Up the Irish!" as a New York and Boston expression before.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-48155574956914726852009-11-10T06:08:33.102+00:002009-11-10T06:08:33.102+00:00@Cameron, re Vladimir: aye, more a case of "C...@Cameron, re Vladimir: aye, more a case of "C'mon the new owner, wherever you are...please...there must be somebody out there somewhere."<br />I'll stop now before we get (rightly) banned for footy banter.Spanish Cowhttp://spanishcow.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57576126115081152802009-11-10T02:51:25.582+00:002009-11-10T02:51:25.582+00:00@joe1959 "Up up up up" is heard from ski...@joe1959 "Up up up up" is heard from ski racing fans too, and they're definitely not headed uphill! I had always understood it as an anglicized version of "hopp" — German for "go."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17198310727349521010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89409507539736643702009-11-09T19:03:32.325+00:002009-11-09T19:03:32.325+00:00I wouldn't find "Hello, the runners"...I wouldn't find "Hello, the runners" that odd, I think- I mean looking at it, yes, but over a PA at the finish line of a race as the people started streaming in, I probably wouldn't even notice- particularly if it was part of a list; "Hello the runners, the unicyclers and the hoppists"<br /> <br />(UK, mostly southern, middle-class)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9608716319161072752009-11-09T15:32:52.554+00:002009-11-09T15:32:52.554+00:00Appropraite as it's at the futee (don't ha...Appropraite as it's at the futee (don't have those accents, sorry) that we mostly use it.<br /><br />You'll be a Hearts fan then? As Hibs aren't underperforming at the moment. Some man the Vladimir, eh?<br /><br />(Apologies for offtopicness, but I couldn't resist).Cameron MacDonald Gazzola Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460898271918397890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21421390254680646432009-11-09T15:28:09.299+00:002009-11-09T15:28:09.299+00:00Ahem, that should be "futée". Mondays, s...Ahem, that should be "futée". Mondays, sigh...Spanish Cowhttp://spanishcow.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2863626500782948052009-11-09T15:23:44.552+00:002009-11-09T15:23:44.552+00:00Agree with Cameron that "come on the" is...Agree with Cameron that "come on the" is pretty standard in Scotland, and have shouted it many a time myself(to zero effect) from the stands (= bleachers) at my own underperforming team in Edinburgh. On the point about the use of "the" in "some wumman the Lynne", this can be heard in colloquial French as well ("elle est futé, la Lynne", for ex.), but what that tells us, je ne dinnae ken pas.Spanish Cowhttp://spanishcow.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-20915007764610818342009-11-09T14:06:34.833+00:002009-11-09T14:06:34.833+00:00Up here (ScE) there is nothing outdated, upper cla...Up here (ScE) there is nothing outdated, upper class or rare about the use of "come on the" at football matches in particular. "Come on the Rangers/Celtic/Thistle/Saints" can be heard every day, although rather less frequently in the case of the latter two. I have long suspected this to be a hangover from Scottish Gaelic, in which the definite article is far commoner than in English. And we also, for instance, are much more likely to say we are in THE hopsital or have THE flu, as in AmE... which also has many Scots influences. We also use and hear constructions like "she's some woman the Lynne" (pronounced wumman though).Cameron MacDonald Gazzola Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460898271918397890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31866648075112296702009-11-09T00:10:38.559+00:002009-11-09T00:10:38.559+00:00Didn't Wolfie Smith in the TV programme popula...Didn't Wolfie Smith in the TV programme popularise up the workers.<br /><br />As for well done lads or well done the lads or well done the band I have heard both fairly often. However I do live in the North in the Lakes so it may be a norther expression.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56071673054031916942009-11-08T20:59:08.384+00:002009-11-08T20:59:08.384+00:00Inappropriately saying "well done" at ev...Inappropriately saying "well done" at every opportunity is very much an English class thing - retired army officers spring to mind. It is really another way of saying jolly good, or good show (both of which are even more dated). Well meant, and intended to be encouraging, but it comes across as rather patronising and caricaturish.<br /><br />Sorry that this is off-topic, but it doesn't fit within this thread or the other one that Lynne has just referred to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51123496433840807682009-11-08T14:36:24.407+00:002009-11-08T14:36:24.407+00:00@biochemist: Just to clarify, BH thought 'up ...@biochemist: Just to clarify, BH thought 'up the X' was upper-crust. He didn't give a class verdict on 'well done'!<br /><br />For what it's worth, I should probably link back here to <a href="http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2009/03/telling-difference-between-american-and.html" rel="nofollow">a previous discussion of 'Well done'</a>...lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58370367727762210292009-11-08T13:59:08.369+00:002009-11-08T13:59:08.369+00:00Some random thoughts:
I spent many years in the N...Some random thoughts:<br /><br />I spent many years in the North-east of England, and Howay! as an exclamation, or 'Howay the Lads' were in fairly regular use. I was told that the word was derived from Hue (pronounced hoo-ay) as in 'Hue and cry' in pursuit of a criminal. Perhaps Hurray has a similar history.<br /><br />I agree with BH in his feeling that 'well done!' is rather upper-crust; firstly, I can definitely remember the rather grand BBC cricket commentators saying 'Well done the fielders' or something similar ... secondly, earlier this year I sang with my choir at an extremely exclusive venue (a Royal chapel, since you ask) and when I arrived at the rehearsal and gave my name, the chapel assistant said 'well done'. Was this to congratulate me for knowing my own name, or for arriving on time, or did it just mean, thank you?<br /><br />There's a parallel phrase 'Good for the girls' team' or 'Good for you'. And, like 'Well done', it can also have an ironic use - but we've done that already....biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28130437889374621542009-11-07T23:07:57.001+00:002009-11-07T23:07:57.001+00:00@Zoe: It may well be a northern thing, but some of...@Zoe: It may well be a northern thing, but some of the examples you've given are not examples of the bit that I found jangling--i.e. having the 'the' there. So I'd expect that <i>Well done, class 7b</i> wouldn't jangle in any dialect. The later examples delete <i>the</i>, so seem to be a different phenomenon than this one.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.com