tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post3226786825323992494..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: shameful self-promotionlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-39627450705408043422008-06-26T13:13:00.000+01:002008-06-26T13:13:00.000+01:00lynne wrote:>>Well, I don't think there is any suc...lynne wrote:<BR/>>>Well, I don't think there is any such thing as Southern English claythes...I think Bell's just mis-spelt cliewthes.<<<BR/><BR/>Hmm, I think it depends what you mean by <I>claythes</I> and <I>cliewthes</I> (the latter makes me think of <A HREF="http://www.briansewell.co.uk/brian-sewell-written-word/brian-sewell-soundboard.html" REL="nofollow"><BR/>Brian Sewell</A> rather than Her Maj.). And does the Queen speak "Southern English" anyway? If she does, it's one with a super-specialized form of proNINEciation, shared by her husband and most of her offspring (especially Charles).<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/blog0804a.htm" REL="nofollow">John Wells's phonetic blog</A> refers to this feature of the Royal accent as "the now obsolescent variant of the GOAT vowel involving a front starting point, so eʊ (or something similar but with less rounding on the second element)" and shows that Steve Bell is consistent in marking it in HM's speech: <BR/><BR/>hellay (hello)<BR/>lair (lower)<BR/>dane't knay (don't know)<BR/><BR/>Steve Bell is pretty good, too, on Preznit Bush and his War on Tourism in Yurp 'n' Murka.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56158145147015399542007-03-03T10:53:00.000+00:002007-03-03T10:53:00.000+00:00I think there may be one more layer of complicatio...I think there may be one more layer of complication .....I can just hear my sister-in-law saying "claythes". But she has quite a strong Devon accent, and would be saying it to mimic/send up upper-middle class incomers to Devon. So perhaps "claythes" is a standardised (if somewhat inaccurate) piss-take version of (something like) "cleothes"?potentillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02634737527678264830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67506875573712794502007-02-26T15:14:00.000+00:002007-02-26T15:14:00.000+00:00Well, I don't think there is any such thing as Sou...Well, I don't think there is any such thing as Southern English <I>claythes</I>...I think Bell's just mis-spelt <I>cliewthes</I>.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7742850406901912242007-02-26T14:23:00.000+00:002007-02-26T14:23:00.000+00:00I don't think Southern English "claythes" and Scot...I don't think Southern English "claythes" and Scottish "claes" are pronounced the same way at all! When I spell out "a" (which rhymes with "claes" in my not very strong Scottish accent) Southern English speakers persistently transcribe it as "e".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-82818210147908063622007-02-26T00:14:00.000+00:002007-02-26T00:14:00.000+00:00Steve Bell himself - whose ear is usually very acu...Steve Bell himself - whose ear is usually very acute - defined sex many years ago as being what Seth Efricans used to carry coal.<BR/>The dialogue is some of Bell's strips is completely incomprehensible unless read aloud (an approach to be pursued with caution on commuter trains, particularly when succeeded by a large guffaw).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-50472025901062688222007-02-25T13:20:00.000+00:002007-02-25T13:20:00.000+00:00It's the cookies! Damn them all. Except the edib...It's the cookies! Damn them all. Except the edible ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33414840155249467922007-02-25T11:54:00.000+00:002007-02-25T11:54:00.000+00:00Thanks for the compliments, James!But-- I'm using ...Thanks for the compliments, James!<BR/><BR/>But-- I'm using Firefox (Mozilla 5.0) on the Mac (OS X10.3) and I do see word verification, so something else must be different for you.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22507702272442289372007-02-25T07:54:00.000+00:002007-02-25T07:54:00.000+00:00What a great blog! I just checked out an old book...What a great blog! I just checked out an old bookmark, which I probably got from Language Hat. I'm an American academic (mathematician) living in Australia and long ago bored all my friends with talk about language and especially pronunciation differences. (By the way, I love all the posts I've looked at, but I might not be commenting as often as I would otherwise because Firefox (on the mac) doesn't display the word verification, which means I have to use another browser if I want to comment. Probably out of your control, alas.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22595845176632476092007-02-24T21:04:00.000+00:002007-02-24T21:04:00.000+00:00I don't understand the 'l' in 'milk' as a vowel? I...I don't understand the 'l' in 'milk' as a vowel? I know that people from Essex/London tend to say it kind of like 'miwk'? Or 'ball pool' becomes 'baw poow'.Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15114191808501237357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-61943437628624875492007-02-24T19:39:00.000+00:002007-02-24T19:39:00.000+00:00I don't say 'Clawse', being from Yorksher. A slang...I don't say 'Clawse', being from Yorksher. A slang/archaic term round here for 'clothes' is 'clarts', you can see how this might be related to what you said, can't you?Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15114191808501237357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77571630162769034232007-02-24T06:17:00.000+00:002007-02-24T06:17:00.000+00:00Moreover, in Melbourne English, the [ɛ] has moved ...Moreover, in Melbourne English, the [ɛ] has moved to [æ], the complete reverse! (But only in certain environments, hell and Hal are both [hæɫ], I think.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73220668539852159252007-02-23T23:34:00.000+00:002007-02-23T23:34:00.000+00:00If I think of sex as a bag of coal and fex as how ...If I think of sex as a bag of coal and fex as how a sheet of A4 is fed into one phone console to come out from another, then where does that leave the Irish profanity 'feck' - the vowel swapped only to avoid outraged readers' letter?Richard Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17478940046605044504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28134919198682474092007-02-23T23:11:00.000+00:002007-02-23T23:11:00.000+00:00Yes, tex is common in South African and New Zealan...Yes, <I>tex</I> is common in South African and New Zealand English as well.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18256924129469669422007-02-23T23:09:00.000+00:002007-02-23T23:09:00.000+00:00'Clawss' and 'tex' sound quite South African to me...'Clawss' and 'tex' sound quite South African to me, but probably only in a stereotypical manner. <BR/>As for 'clothes', I imagine the Queen's accent has fronted the first half of the diphthong, even beyond a schwa, toward [ɛ]. To me it sounds like [klɛʊðz] rather than the [kloʊðz] of my dialect. <BR/>'Claythes' doesn't seem to me to be a very good depiction at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75170192958481962042007-02-23T21:43:00.000+00:002007-02-23T21:43:00.000+00:00I've heard posh English people saying 'clathes' fo...I've heard posh English people saying 'clathes' for 'clothes', not unlike the Scottish 'claes'. Another oft-imitated Royal Family quirk is pronouncing 'house' as 'hice'.<BR/><BR/>I've also heard that line about coals being delivered in 'sex', only with reference to Kensington.Ilanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04330653189587837903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16587577378135502922007-02-23T21:22:00.000+00:002007-02-23T21:22:00.000+00:00Sex is, famously, what they deliver the coal in, i...Sex is, famously, what they deliver the coal in, in Morningside. The "aw" story is interesting. But where I grew up in Scotland, a lot of our "a"s were pronounced "aw". (In the playground, I mean, not in front of parents or teachers.) Thus the town was Gawlieshiels, not Galashiels. The drunk in the poem was Tawm O'Shawnter. But this was quite distinct from the longer sound in Southern English. But ye did take yer clais off for dookin. (Disrobe for swimming.) As for HM, perhaps Bell has had a poor shot at "cleothes"?deariemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06654632450454559188noreply@blogger.com