tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post3496316691187824624..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: Announcing Untranslatable October VIlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger153125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17176108916679167312018-04-26T16:16:45.598+01:002018-04-26T16:16:45.598+01:00Whew ... well, that puts things in perspective. B...Whew ... well, that puts things in perspective. BTW: no need to apologize for the YouTube comments; anyone who spends any time at all on YouTube understands that (with the possible exception of the alt-right bulletin board website 4chan, which I've never had the intestinal fortitude to visit) the comments are reliably lowest common denominator <i>no matter who posts them</i>.<br /><br />After watching the video I was keen to know when it was posted and was a little surprised to see it went up 4 years ago. As you may know immigration is also a red-hot issue in the US right now, with hostility to immigrants -- especially those who arrived here illegally -- at what I'd consider an all-time high ... at least in my lifetime.<br /><br />Clearly Yanks and Brits share more than a common language, no matter how mismatched our words may sometimes be.Dick Hartzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065924271517452841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-81448192399826280532018-04-25T21:09:29.897+01:002018-04-25T21:09:29.897+01:00Bill Oddie (corrected spelling) used to be a comed...Bill Oddie (corrected spelling) used to be a comedian, and still employs comic timing and the odd ironic comment.<br /><br />I initially took <i>'It makes you proud to be British'</i> as a mixed sort of irony: criticising the quintessentially British robin as a thug, but at the same time expressing a half-admiration. <br /><br />But then I found <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F-t4MPJZlE" rel="nofollow">this clip</a> (click), where he displays his real attitude to being <i>proud to be British</i>. <br /><br />(On behalf of the UK, I apologise for the YouTube comments on the clip.)<br /><br />So it's unmixed, uncomplicated irony.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04868191560554400497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68425700658758430992018-04-25T17:04:39.910+01:002018-04-25T17:04:39.910+01:00Thanks, David. It's now plain the UK robin is...Thanks, David. It's now plain the UK robin is quite different from the US robin -- and in more ways than one. I'm not much of an ornithologist, but US robins are often seen searching for worms in groups on a lawn or open field, especially after a rainstorm. So aside from being an entirely different species of bird they obviously aren't solitary and ferociously territorial the way UK robins are.<br /><br />I was also a bit puzzled about why UK robins make you "proud to be British", as Bill Oddy says. Aside from the American bald eagle, which is so much of a national symbol here it's used as the icon for the US postal service (but which neither I nor most people have actually seen in the wild), there really are no common birds -- and the American robin is extremely common -- that make anyone proud to be American.<br /><br />I'm guessing it's largely because gardening is such a passion with the British ... and because UK robins show up around freshly turned earth they're naturally associated with the gardening project.Dick Hartzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065924271517452841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-81649320027389643792018-04-25T14:28:14.132+01:002018-04-25T14:28:14.132+01:00If no video shows up, click the box with the link ...If no video shows up, click the box with the link <b> Rockin' robins</b>. the speaker is a comedian called Bill Oddy, who is perhaps better known now as a bird-enthusiast and general nature broadcaster.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04868191560554400497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62362079367863530442018-04-25T00:54:39.280+01:002018-04-25T00:54:39.280+01:00Dick this link (click) is pretty comprehensive. To...Dick <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/European_Robin#p007yg80" rel="nofollow">this link</a> (click) is pretty comprehensive. Towards the end of the video there's a brief comparison with the American robin.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04868191560554400497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13237544203158279792018-04-24T15:49:46.954+01:002018-04-24T15:49:46.954+01:00Thanks for following up, David. I guess I -- and ...Thanks for following up, David. I guess I -- and my English friend, Linda -- stand corrected.<br /><br />But to be precise, here's a link to an image of an American robin:<br /><br />https://www.history.com/topics/us-states/connecticut/pictures/connecticut/american-robin-standing-in-grass-field<br /><br />Do I understand that the English robin looks substantially similar -- at least as far as coloration is concerned?Dick Hartzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065924271517452841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40732478805692731912018-04-24T14:09:13.232+01:002018-04-24T14:09:13.232+01:00Sorry, I should have said
but he or she is not a...Sorry, I should have said <br /><br /><i>but he or she is not alone.</i><br /><br />Clumsy of me!.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04868191560554400497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84875333618484958262018-04-24T13:46:36.975+01:002018-04-24T13:46:36.975+01:00Dick, I've just come across this while looking...Dick, I've just come across this while looking for something else.<br /><br />Your English friend is misinformed, but he's not alone. I was also misinformed for most of my life – along with most of the UK population. Even when I looked at a robin, it didn't occur to me that <i>redbreast</i> was a misnomer. After all, you rarely see more than one robin at a time. Because <b>robin redbreast</b> is so ingrained in the language, the idea just won't go away. So when illustrators draw and colour robins — as they do every Christmas — they often change the actual colour of the bird's breast to the colour that the public expects.<br /><br />The problem is that <i>red</i> has narrowed its meaning. It used to cover a spectrum that covered the hue of a robin's breast. The use of <i>orange</i> to mean the colour of that fruit is not recorded in the OED before the sixteenth century. By contrast, the form <i> redbreast </i> (variously spelled) is recorded a century earlier.<br /><br />The OED entry for red has a small-print note:<br /><br />In early use also designating shades of purple, pink, and orange, which are now distinguished by these distinct colour terms.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04868191560554400497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26936428617944159582018-04-23T21:54:16.763+01:002018-04-23T21:54:16.763+01:00My guess is that, not having heard it before, he i...My guess is that, not having heard it before, he interpreted "spring fever" as hayfever. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13327653322296450832017-05-02T18:52:01.946+01:002017-05-02T18:52:01.946+01:00I think I've heard "it's not a bug, i...I think I've heard "it's not a bug, it's a feature" twice in the last six or so months on sitcoms, both times in a humorous context where it really was a bug and they were simply using this as an excuse. (In other words, if it does something unexpected, tell the customer that it's supposed to do that -- remember we're talking situation comedy on television, so there's a bit of truth and a bit of exaggeration all stirred together for effect.)<br /><br />I suspect that if the phrase has made its way onto TV sit-coms, it's in the process of becoming a mainstream catchphrase in America.Dark Star in the Morninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312003791405491874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47835856863477295462017-05-02T18:10:06.824+01:002017-05-02T18:10:06.824+01:00BTW: I assume you know that the robin found in Nor...BTW: I assume you know that the robin found in North America has an orange breast and not a red one. As an American, I was content to allow "robin red breast" to be merely an example of the kind of poetic license commonly taken by children's authors until a visiting English friend mentioned that robins in the UK actually do have a red breast. So those inept British settlers got more wrong than the species when they misnamed our local thrushes.Dick Hartzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065924271517452841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22646014980935442932017-05-01T14:09:17.396+01:002017-05-01T14:09:17.396+01:00Yes, "corn" for me, a native British spe...Yes, "corn" for me, a native British speaker, means anything that grows in a field and blows in the wind. It's such a generic that I gather the first British settlers in America, a markedly inept bunch, said "We need to grow some corn here or we'll starve." They asked the Indians what they could grow and the Indians showed them maize, hough they called it something else. The settlers, not mastering the Indian name, just called it corn in the way that they called the American red-breasted bird a robin (in fact it's a thrush but it was the reference they knew). From then on, "corn" to Americans meant maize, which in Britain was unknown at the time. So British English has maize, a specific, and corn, a general term. I've never seen the story confirmed but it has a ring of truth to it, don't you think?léonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91445555403619086782016-11-24T18:33:33.866+00:002016-11-24T18:33:33.866+00:00I've read any number of historians' compla...I've read any number of historians' complaints about the problem that the English word "corn" makes for them. It has always pretty much meant "whatever grain is the main crop hereabouts", and it's often very difficult for a poor, suffering historian to determine which grain that was at a specific place and time.jchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04926070339759890021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64803929208746200372016-11-01T10:17:15.647+00:002016-11-01T10:17:15.647+00:00Sadly I am surrounded by geeks, so I am unable to ...Sadly I am surrounded by geeks, so I am unable to confirm or deny whether it has emerged from computing circles in the UK. It is used by people who work in computing to describe things outside computing: e.g., a minor cake disaster.Rachel Ganzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512329333010333925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90031964911159469212016-10-27T15:17:12.806+01:002016-10-27T15:17:12.806+01:00Referring to "dumpster fire" I have seen...Referring to "dumpster fire" I have seen a fire being lit in a skip to dispose of confidential documents. It is a condition of skip rental that you are not to light fires in them. The large portable rubbish bins were flagged up as a safety hazard on my fire marshal course. Apparently you should secure them away from buildings, as they are an easy assist to arsonists. From my understanding of the meaning of dumpster fire, would it be translated as "cock-up", "dog's breakfast"? I think there are plenty of phrases for self-achieved disasters in both vocabularies, or have I missed a nuance?Rachel Ganzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512329333010333925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79065345394095408252016-10-27T02:06:45.321+01:002016-10-27T02:06:45.321+01:00Dicl, I'd already seen the 'American' ...Dicl, I'd already seen the 'American' definition in the OED. To summarise<br /><br />1 a. <i>U.S.</i> An unfair or rigged gambling game, esp. of cards. Now chiefly<i> hist </i>.<br /><br />1b. <i>orig. U.S</i>. In extended use: a fraudulent deal or piece of business; a swindle, a scam. Also: an activity considered to be characterized by fraudulent or dishonest dealings.<br /><br />This must have become fairly familiar in the UK, since John Galsworthy wrote a novel called <i>The Skin Game</i> in 1920.<br /><br /> 2. <i>U.S.</i> (chiefly in African-American usage). = skin n. 25<br /><br />Sense 25 of <b>skin</b> is the Georgia Skin game I talked about.<br /><br /> 3. Golf (orig. and chiefly <i></i>). = skins game n. (a) at skin n. Compounds 5.<br /><br />The cross-reference is to<br /><br /> <b> skins game </b> n. N. Amer. Sport (a) Golf a game in which prizemoney is awarded to the winner of each hole (cf. sense 26); (b) Curling a game in which prize money is awarded to the winner of each end.<br /><br />This cross-references to sense 26 of <b>skin</b><br /><br />26. <i>N. Amer. Golf.</i> A sum of money offered as a wager or prize to the winner of a given hole, which in case of there being no outright winner may accrue to the following hole. Cf. skins game n. (a) at Compounds 5.<br /><br />It seems likely that sense [1a] — the crooked card game —is the source of the others. In the Galsworthy sense [1b], the card-game aspect was forgotten. The Georgia skin game and the golf skins game liked the sound of the phrase and forgot about the crooked aspect — although cheating was possible in Georgia skin, as Jelly Roll Morton testifies.<br /><br />I still think that Georgia skin is a more likely source for <i>skin in the game</i> because<br /> <br />1. it involved heavy gambling<br />2. players <b>chose</b> to enter the game in a way that doesn't seem to be the case in a golf skins game.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2950243949172168802016-10-26T14:40:26.547+01:002016-10-26T14:40:26.547+01:00Check out this definition of skin game at Dictiona...Check out this definition of <a href="http://bit.ly/2f79bPT" rel="nofollow"><i>skin game</i></a> at Dictionary.com. It provides both American and British definitions. The first U.S. citation in the U.S. definition comes from a memoir by the American golfer Ben Hogan, which made sense to me because for reasons I can't explain (since I don't play golf) I associate the sport with the term <i>skin game</i>.<br /><br />That led me to search on <i>skin game golf</i>, which turned up this web page: <a href="http://bit.ly/2eQRX4v" rel="nofollow">"How to Play Skins in Golf."</a> According to this page, a "skin value" is assigned to each hole on the course and with it a betting value. So while skins in golf doesn't involve the cheating or trickery indicated by the Dictionary.com definition, it <i>does</i> involve money stakes ... which could definitely result in cheating or trickery.Dick Hartzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065924271517452841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1766413277697071692016-10-26T02:07:14.367+01:002016-10-26T02:07:14.367+01:00Could the expression originate in the Georgia skin...Could the expression originate in the <b>Georgia skin game</b>? <br /><br />This was described by Zora Neale Hurston as <i>'the most favourite gambling game among the workers of the South'.</i> I think she meant Black workers. Jelly Roll Morton told an anecdote about a near disaster when he learned to cheat at the game. He describes joining the game — and therefore the betting — as <i>'skinning'.</i> The OED records that one of the many meanings of the verb <i>skin</i> is to lay your card down — <b>Georgia skin</b> seems to involve just laying one card down, followed by some complex and very hazardous betting.<br /><br />I haven't seen the noun <i>skin</i> used for such a card, but it does seem plausible.<br /><br />One of the first Blues LPs to come out in the UK included Peg Leg Howell singing <i>Lost all the money I ever had</i> and Lucille Bogan sang <i>Skin Game Blues</i> about her man losing all his money.<br /><br />Peg Leg Howell and Nora Neale Hurston sang <i>Let your deal go down</i> as something chanted at the skin game. The phrase was learned by White performers like Charlie Poole and <i> Don't Let Your Deal Go Down</i> became a standard.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-49315201250946354572016-10-25T22:14:47.341+01:002016-10-25T22:14:47.341+01:00I'm a Brit, and I have never heard 'skin i...I'm a Brit, and I have never heard 'skin in the game'. And I can't even see exactly what it means from what's been said above. Is it used at all in the UK?Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15241595421709395075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38639993585373094492016-10-25T00:05:58.763+01:002016-10-25T00:05:58.763+01:00It's been suggested several times, but I have ...It's been suggested several times, but I have to say, I don't find it all that untranslatable. "There you have it" or "There you go" or similar phrases seem to me to do the same trick, they're just not as colo(u)rful. Do you think I'm missing something? lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-306383563868820702016-10-24T23:56:52.070+01:002016-10-24T23:56:52.070+01:00I feel sure you'll have covered this somewhere...I feel sure you'll have covered this somewhere, but 'Bob's your uncle' is my favourite untranslatable Britishism. (I remember a Polish colleague receiving an email which ended 'and Robert is your father's brother' - and when he asked me to explain it, I realised that 'Bob's your uncle' wasn't, in and of itself, explanation enough.)Simon T (StuckinaBook)http://www.stuckinabook.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24310760025397366012016-10-24T22:01:53.004+01:002016-10-24T22:01:53.004+01:00I think corny in BE has a completely different mea...I think corny in BE has a completely different meaning. I'd use it to describe a joke. Hilltophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12744481968971493234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3480340321449176092016-10-24T21:01:08.327+01:002016-10-24T21:01:08.327+01:00Victorian tenements in some ways resemble the towe...Victorian <b>tenements</b> in some ways resemble the <b>tower blocks</b> built a century later. Both can be perfectly satisfactory, provided that<br />• they've been kept in good repair<br />• they've been upgraded as expectations have risen<br />• they're not subject to middle-class flight<br /><br />Tenements in England and Ballymena seems not to have met these conditions. Perhaps, too, they weren't built very well. The problem in Glasgow is that areas like the Gorbals became ghettos, which drove away the moneyed landlord and occupiers who might have turned those excellently built stone structures into desirable residences.<br /><br />This recalls the Coronation Street-type terraces of Lancashire and Merseyside which have been demolished in recent years, despite their popularity with many house-dwellers. (Of the Granada site of the original Coronation Street see, it was said that the lock on the gate was necessary to keep out the thousands who wanted to live there.) <br /><br />Tenements and terraces, suitably upgraded, are better suited to the average British household today than the grander houses built for more affluent middl-class Victorians families with large families and the odd servant or two living in. There are plenty of those in Edinburgh, but most have been split into flats or Bed and Breakfast establishments.<br /><br />There are a few areas of Edinburgh where older properties were allowed to deteriorate and were demolished. But in most neighbourhoods Victorian tenements and ever earlier buildings have been adapted to modern standards. The only danger is the fear that too many tenement flats are being turned into multi-occupancy flats rented to students.<br /><br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57220729607324948392016-10-24T13:31:46.645+01:002016-10-24T13:31:46.645+01:00I also live in a tenement flat in Edinburgh (waves...I also live in a tenement flat in Edinburgh (waves to David Crosbie). I'm on the top floor, and so enter my flat via the common stair, as David describes above. My stairwell has more of a mixture of owner-occupiers and tenants than his does - also all the flats are accessed from the stairwell rather than the ground floor flats having a main door. These are just minor differences, though. <br /><br />On some blocks you can see the old mechanical bell fittings that Zouk Delors' uncle had. These days I think they have all been replaced by electric systems with entryphones. However our flat does still have a thing that you pull which rings a proper little bell within the flat, which is quite cool. It confuses a lot of people who try to push the thing when you need to pull on it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18187224644360887242016-10-24T13:16:41.692+01:002016-10-24T13:16:41.692+01:00Marc Almond's cover: 1992, not 82Marc Almond's cover: 1992, not 82Zouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.com