tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post4277382082931175909..comments2024-03-28T07:47:45.855+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: on the up and uplynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6106155054647644532020-05-27T21:37:26.311+01:002020-05-27T21:37:26.311+01:00Rather to my surprise, it appears that the 'ho...Rather to my surprise, it appears that the 'honest' meaning was current in East Cheam in 1960:<br /><br /><a href="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B7-bZSx-03M" rel="nofollow">https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B7-bZSx-03M</a><br /><br />The Emigrant (1960)<br /><br />The following exchange takes place at 14'40:<br /><br /><b>Tony Hancock</b>: So there it is, Sid, I can't emigrate. Eighty-three countries I've tried, and none of them want me.<br /><br /><b>Sid James</b>: Leave it to me, Tony boy. I'll get you out of the country. I'm a specialist at getting people out of the country.<br /><br /><b>Tony Hancock</b>: That's what I heard, and, well, that's why I've come to you. Mind you, Sid, I want this on the up-and-up. I want to emigrate all legal and above board.<br /><br /><b>Sid James</b>: Of course you do! That's the only way I do business. Now, you give me fifty nicker for a passport...<br /><br />Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28786037559222512482020-05-18T21:18:33.326+01:002020-05-18T21:18:33.326+01:00Blimey Charlie !
The things you learn on this blog...Blimey Charlie !<br />The things you learn on this blog !Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29255329259262832542020-05-15T01:35:23.478+01:002020-05-15T01:35:23.478+01:00In the US, a specific sexual meaning of "on t...In the US, a specific sexual meaning of "on the down-low" has become increasingly widespread to the point of crowding out any other uses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down-low_(sexual_slang).Joel T. Luberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01425059756986844099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57382727229652378482020-05-05T01:41:14.901+01:002020-05-05T01:41:14.901+01:00http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/vernacular.htmlhttp://freemasonry.bcy.ca/fiction/vernacular.htmlZouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71993914504760095252020-04-30T17:16:35.949+01:002020-04-30T17:16:35.949+01:00BrEnglish speaker, male, elderly, I've never h...BrEnglish speaker, male, elderly, I've never heard 'on the up and up' used to mean 'honest'. When I've heard it used at all, rarely, it would be a more emphatic way of saying 'on the up' i.e. getting better, improving.<br /><br />We do use 'on the level' to mean honest, and 'level with' as a phrasal verb. We also use 'straight' to mean honest. One occasionally hears 'on the square' used in stead, which I believe is a metaphor from freemasonry. Drunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63132030144419021232020-04-22T21:28:08.230+01:002020-04-22T21:28:08.230+01:00We can antedate the "successful" meaning...We can antedate the "successful" meaning to 1906:<br /><br /><i>A. T. Stevens, assistant manager of the John Deere Plow Company at St. Louis, states that business is "on the up and up." Last Saturday the house shipped 112 jobs. The carriage factory, he states, is running full capacity and the prospects for the future are very good.</i><br /><br /><a href="https://hdl.handle.net/2027/chi.102745615?urlappend=%3Bseq=1042" rel="nofollow">Farm Implement News (Chicago), 1906-05-31, p. 20</a><br /><br />vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46704571338608808012020-04-21T19:48:19.186+01:002020-04-21T19:48:19.186+01:00"On the down-low"?
That's another ex..."On the down-low"?<br />That's another expression that somehow passed me by!<br />I've heard "the low-down", meaning an informed briefing (an equally puzzling expression, come to think of it!), but not, so far as I can recall, "the down-low".<br />But the contrast would certainly make some sense as the origin of "on the up-and-up".<br />("On the up-high" would have made more sense of course, but we can't expect rigorous logic in such things!)Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90714143892670978292020-04-21T14:43:37.070+01:002020-04-21T14:43:37.070+01:00I've just looked in Chambers to see what that ...I've just looked in Chambers to see what that says. It gives both meanings of "on the up and up". It doesn't mark either as American. Curiously, it gives only one definition for "on the up" - a cricketing term meaning of a stroke played as the ball rises from its bounce.Paul Dormerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611343972547300193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44252489842039731322020-04-20T23:37:28.122+01:002020-04-20T23:37:28.122+01:00I was born in the UK (in the 1970s) and moved to t...I was born in the UK (in the 1970s) and moved to the US in my twenties, and I swear I've only ever heard of the "honest" meaning in either country. But I don't trust my memory these days :)vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-81166398973070097732020-04-20T23:35:20.370+01:002020-04-20T23:35:20.370+01:0060-yo American male here. I'm hunkering down h...60-yo American male here. I'm hunkering down here in my house with my wife and three kids. Wife and I only were only aware of the "honest" meaning. My 22- and 20-yo children always understood it to have the "improving" meaning. The 22-yo says the only time she remembers hearing it was in a song from Hamilton, and gleaned the meaning from context,<br />"Since when are you a Democratic Republican<br />Since being one put me on the up and up again"<br />(I think she gleaned badly)GEssernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-53073245417860297312020-04-20T22:53:05.769+01:002020-04-20T22:53:05.769+01:00I have no idea about the actual origin, but I alwa...I have no idea about the actual origin, but I always assumed it was to contrast with expressions like "on the down-low" = secret/secretly. If things are on the up and up, it sounds like they are showing everything on the surface, not hiding anything, and thus honest.<br /><br />Although I know both senses of the phrase (I am 21 and American).dijekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12933795959039036564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69961081182907863652020-04-20T21:27:13.391+01:002020-04-20T21:27:13.391+01:00I was born in Ontario, Canada, in 1958 and I have ...I was born in Ontario, Canada, in 1958 and I have never used the expression to mean successful. It has always meant "honest" to me.Grant Hamiltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08625096323361420194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-82504860376230653462020-04-20T11:09:32.067+01:002020-04-20T11:09:32.067+01:00American English speaker here and the above board ...American English speaker here and the above board meaning was the only one I was familiar with until reading this posting.RLB in DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02535074620018628982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66038889612542797962020-04-20T00:37:00.012+01:002020-04-20T00:37:00.012+01:00I'm a 69-year-old Englishwoman who has lived i...I'm a 69-year-old Englishwoman who has lived in the US for 25 years. "On-the-up-and-up" has only ever mean "legitimate" to me.pbittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01789641849398706872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46824600053318643122020-04-20T00:20:29.534+01:002020-04-20T00:20:29.534+01:00This isn't a phrase I've ever used myself,...This isn't a phrase I've ever used myself, but I could swear whenever I've heard it, even from Americans, it's been in the sense 'increasingly successful'.Sean Fearnleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15511353147572935011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16541755728729080042020-04-19T12:34:01.010+01:002020-04-19T12:34:01.010+01:00Echoing Doug. Also a British English speaker, I to...Echoing Doug. Also a British English speaker, I too have only ever used it to mean 'honest'. I might say 'on the up' for improving, but can't remember actually ever using it.Starry Diademhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07404851255497994182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64318184313756220452020-04-19T00:17:04.055+01:002020-04-19T00:17:04.055+01:00I was wondering the same thing.I was wondering the same thing.Zouk Delorshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07983226210415857258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8147425639613485672020-04-18T22:37:51.318+01:002020-04-18T22:37:51.318+01:00As a British English speaker, I can only offer my ...As a British English speaker, I can only offer my own usage in evidence. I would instinctively assume the "honest" meaning, and it was only in thinking quite hard about it that I realised I have also heard (but I don't think ever used) it in the "improving" sense. I have, however, used the derivative "on the up" phrase with that meaning. Just one further example.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10326403777027937887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69221895515065813522020-04-18T19:56:30.957+01:002020-04-18T19:56:30.957+01:00I'm so glad I included this link in a comment ...I'm so glad I included this link in a comment on Ben Y.'s post, because I never would have remembered it now.<br /><br />Geoff Nunberg discussing the divergent meanings of "on the up and up" in 2003:<br />http://people.ischool.berkeley.edu/~nunberg/upandup.htmlFritinancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10772472936410902891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51301201018805162702020-04-18T17:52:13.159+01:002020-04-18T17:52:13.159+01:00@Kate Bunting: Yeah, no. The full context of the...@Kate Bunting: Yeah, no. The full context of the 1930 <i>Baltimore Sun</i> citation is:<br /><br />BUSINESS MEN IN CHARGE<br />Under the caption "Business Fights Crime in Chicago," Robert I. Randolph, president of the Chicago Chamber of Commerce, explains in the <i>Saturday Evening Post</i> that "business leaders, not politicians, not preachers, not reformers, have taken on the Augean job of giving Chicago a thorough housecleaning." From now on, we are led to believe, law and order will be on the up and up, as the current phrase is.<br />"The job," Mr. Randolph writes, "is to put the criminals behind bars and remove them from active participation in crime. The count on which a conviction is secured is relatively unimportant; the conviction is the big thing. Therefore, the charge on which it is easiest to get a conviction and sentence is the best. Apparently it is far easier to convict a powerful gangster for his income from his criminal activities than to convict him of violating the Volstead act. Anything which will put a gangster behind bars looks good to us."<br />....<br /><br />Read on its own, this might be misunderstood as indicating the "Steadily rising, improving, or increasing; prospering, successful" meaning; however, it is in now way definitively indicative of that. Moreover, knowing the context of the extreme police corruption in the 1920s Chicago, the "Honest(ly), straightforward(ly), 'on the level'" meaning actually seems much more salient.Buzzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12917548376898557427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29065156066470115392020-04-18T15:32:02.505+01:002020-04-18T15:32:02.505+01:00I was also completely unaware of the American mean...I was also completely unaware of the American meaning, and I find it rather puzzling. 'Up-and-up' = honest? Can anybody explain the metaphor?Grhmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57975855778358239602020-04-18T15:12:43.788+01:002020-04-18T15:12:43.788+01:00Alleged exchange in court.
Policeman: I was able...Alleged exchange in court.<br /><br />Policeman: I was able move the car by pushing it.<br />Judge: What, on the level?<br />Policeman: Yes, m'lud, honestly.Paul Dormerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611343972547300193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65490034237137708892020-04-18T14:06:51.798+01:002020-04-18T14:06:51.798+01:00BrE equivalent for 'above board' might be ...BrE equivalent for 'above board' might be 'on the level'.<br /><br />We might note the number of times the Prime Minister and cabinet members have promised to 'level with us' recently.biochemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02583985909434048932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40014055029276472882020-04-18T13:27:53.166+01:002020-04-18T13:27:53.166+01:00Presumably the compilers of the OED could tell fro...Presumably the compilers of the OED could tell from the context of those sentences which sense was meant! I was certainly quite unaware of the American sense.Kate Buntinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17223976536411967222noreply@blogger.com