tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post428273757875595602..comments2024-03-29T15:35:51.424+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: red hotslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-37369588893682919172017-04-21T03:13:50.290+01:002017-04-21T03:13:50.290+01:00I'm a native Californian who moved to Rocheste...I'm a native Californian who moved to Rochester NY in my 50s. I had never heard the term "red hots" for hot dog before coming to Rochester. In CA, it would mean the little candies. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40074693933543261522013-07-04T12:58:17.555+01:002013-07-04T12:58:17.555+01:00If you search for jar sausage in Google Images, yo...If you search for <b>jar sausage</b> in Google Images, you'll find several pictures of sausages in jars. You'll even find a jar of <b>Red Hots</b>.<br /><br />It's not really such a strange idea. The mass popular taste in Britain (and, I think, in Ireland) is for the sort of sausages that butchers have always made (and many still do) out of raw pork and bread rusk. Preservatives and refrigeration have allowed for this type of sausage to be factory-made, distributed, to retailers and kept for a while on refrigerated shelves. Even so, the sausages must be products that can be sold really quickly before they perish. <br /><br />(Thanks to that technology, it's now economic to use meats other than pork or beef, and to add non-traditional ingredients. But the changes are relatively trivial, because that's what the mass market wants.)<br /><br />Until recently, it was uneconomic for processors to manufacture — and for retailers to stock — German-type sausages because they could only sell slowly to a small minority market. One solution was to import sausages preserved in brine.<br /><br />Recent technology has changed all this. Frankfurter, bockwurst and even bratwurst are now manufactured in Germany and vacuum-packed in stout plastic. Supermarkets display them along with packs of slice ham and other meat products with a decent shelf life. The market for them is still small, but the more available the sausages are, the more the market expands.<br /><br />When I was a little boy in the late 40's and early 50's, <b>hot dogs</b> were like toffee apples and candy floss — indulgences that you could only enjoy at places where the normal rules of eating were suspended: fairgrounds and the seaside.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60514561612280883772013-07-03T19:44:27.233+01:002013-07-03T19:44:27.233+01:00There are several clips of Hot Dogs on YouTube. th...There are several clips of <b>Hot Dogs</b> on YouTube. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDlFsKmvPes" rel="nofollow">this one</a> is a bit hissy, but it's nicer to look at.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90271184136457678212013-07-03T19:36:30.672+01:002013-07-03T19:36:30.672+01:00Howard
I used to possess a record by the American...Howard<br /><br /><i>I used to possess a record by the American ragtime/blues guitarist Stefan Grossman. One track, a medley of instrumental tunes with a tune titled "Hot Dogs" at the beginning, started with Stefan calling out, "Hot dogs, hot dogs! Get 'em while they're red hot!"</i><br /><br />Stefan was playing about. The tune is from the playing of Blind Lemon Jefferson — or, as credited on this record <b>Blind Lemon Jefferson And His Feet.</b> Throughout the record, we can hear the sound of Lemon step dancing (possibly for real). It's a guitar showcase, but he frequently calls out and he sings at the end. Near the beginning he calls <i>These are <b>hot</b> dogs. I mean <b>red hot</b></i> — one of his boasts about his feet, along with <i>My old feet failed on me then. But you ought to see them now. A rabbit wouldn't have a chance!</i><br /><br />Another great blues singer, Ma Rainey, recorded <i>Those Dogs Of Mine</i> about her feet.<br /><br />Stefan's added street cry was probably taken from somebody selling something other than hot dogs. My money is on <i>tamales</i>. I don't really know what they are, but the sort of blues singers that Stefan copies would quite often sing of them — most famously Robert Johnson's <b>They're Red Hot.</b>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33982552928837929882009-05-19T16:08:00.000+01:002009-05-19T16:08:00.000+01:00And I meant Boston, Massachusetts, US, to avoid am...And I meant Boston, Massachusetts, US, to avoid ambiguity!PrestonSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02686829692815555435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40777137664672369482009-05-19T16:03:00.000+01:002009-05-19T16:03:00.000+01:00Hello, everyone! My name is Preston and I am an Am...Hello, everyone! My name is Preston and I am an AmE speaker from Maryland who now resides in Boston. I have been reading previous posts for a while, and I love this community! Although my first post is a tad negative, I can assure you all that I’m usually a positive chap. However, it stems from an almost paternal instinct to defend Lynneguist’s comments to Ellen K. regarding grilling vs. bbq. Lynneguist, you handled the exchange with much tact, and that is laudable. <br /><br />However, Ellen K. (and please bear in mind that I like you—I’ve read some of your other posts), your snippy tone was uncalled for, especially since Lynneguist was essentially right! <br /><br />Ellen, you wrote: “Grilling versus barbecuing. Reading the reference to barbecue foods named after cities in Germany was confusing. In the US, you do sometimes see barbecue used to refering to grilling (quick cooking over direct heat). But that's definitely considered incorrect usage. But Wikipedia notes that British usage is different. (Barbecue is also sometimes used to refer to anything with barbecue sauce.).” <br /><br />Now, you bring up the topic “grilling vs. barbecuing” in a forum devoted to discussing the differences between US and UK language usage (and of course all other English-speaking places, but mainly those two). In the preceding paragraph, your first sentence highlights grilling vs. barbecuing. You go on to discuss the distinction in meaning in US usage, and then close by noting that grilling has a different meaning in the UK by linking a Wikipedia article about barbecuing where it notes that grilling in the UK often means broiling in the US. <br /><br />Lynneguist, in an effort to show connections to her site, then helpfully pointed you to an entry that discusses this very difference: grilling in the UK often refers to what in the US we would term broiling. <br /><br />You then write: “I respect that you don't want to get into a new topic in the comments. I was not and am not asking you to. But it would be nice if, since you chose to reply, your replies had actually related to what I said.” <br /><br />In the mock-serious tones of Derek from the Catherine Tate show: “How very, very dare you!” But seriously, our moderator is nice enough to provide this forum on her own time. She works with language for a living; it is in her nature to be precise with language. She was quite reasonably responding to what you said, and it was in fact germane. She graciously apologized to you, but let me stick my neck out and say that you should have reviewed your own post before assuming that she didn’t know what she was talking about! <br /><br />I don’t mind a bit of verbal sparring, but the last one to receive our ire should be Lynneguist—especially if it’s unjustified.PrestonSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02686829692815555435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42532688216763758142008-06-10T20:59:00.000+01:002008-06-10T20:59:00.000+01:0055, from upstate NY. NEVER heard red hot for hot ...55, from upstate NY. <BR/>NEVER heard red hot for hot dog, only as candy.<BR/>DID hear brat (sounds like brot) for the wurst.Roger Owen Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05298172138307632062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32536538024218142142008-06-10T20:37:00.000+01:002008-06-10T20:37:00.000+01:00The following link probably won't last long, but i...The following link probably won't last long, but it's quite relevant to this topic:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.lidl.co.uk/uk/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20080610.p.Hot_Dog_Sausages.ar9" REL="nofollow">http://www.lidl.co.uk...</A><BR/> <BR/>It's from cheap UK supermarket chain Lidl. This week they're running a special on "A Taste Of America", including - you guessed it - hot dogs in a jar.<BR/> <BR/>I'm guessing somebody in Lidl's product department has never actually been Stateside to look at the hot dogs there. I'm with you on this one, Lynne, hot dogs in a jar just would not fly in the good ol' US of A.<BR/> <BR/>Though I have become a closet aficionado of macaroni [and] cheese in a can since moving to the UK...Stringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04937677857357562280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24536793630224004012008-06-07T15:14:00.000+01:002008-06-07T15:14:00.000+01:00I wouldn't expect to see it on grocery store packa...I wouldn't expect to see it on grocery store packaging...as I've said before, it's an old-fashioned term.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67959214035145120652008-06-07T13:26:00.000+01:002008-06-07T13:26:00.000+01:00I'm w/ Stephen and Peggy--I've never heard of the ...I'm w/ Stephen and Peggy--I've never heard of the "red hot" sausage. (I'm 48, if that helps; I'll ask my dad if he's ever heard it)<BR/><BR/>I have worked on magazines that carried recipes and covered food, and we've never used that term either.<BR/><BR/>I've read the Harry's Bar reference before, but only as an oddity, not as an indicator of wider usage (or not wider *current* usage).<BR/><BR/>And I have never until your post heard the term "white hots."<BR/><BR/>I grew up in Iowa and live in NYC, so I've been exposed to more than one region. <BR/><BR/>I can find it on a Google search, but I have great skepticism for either of these as widespread usages.<BR/><BR/>and now I'm going to have to read the packages in the grocery store!TootsNYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08250160403913606481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33808509129019799302008-06-06T18:55:00.000+01:002008-06-06T18:55:00.000+01:00Argh, it's "Wurstfest," one word.Argh, it's "Wurstfest," one word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-23150939894164711452008-06-06T18:52:00.000+01:002008-06-06T18:52:00.000+01:00Lynne:Yes, I know the word "brat" is common in the...Lynne:<BR/><BR/>Yes, I know the word "brat" is common in the Midwest. But as a South Texan, the first time I encountered it on a menu, I giggled: It just suggested the idea of eating a spoiled child.<BR/><BR/>My point was that around these parts, even though bratwurst is served at Wurst Fest, "brat" for the sausage is not common.<BR/><BR/>Sorry I was unclear.<BR/><BR/>Dan Puckett<BR/>San Antonio, TexasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76444535995941326742008-06-05T19:26:00.000+01:002008-06-05T19:26:00.000+01:00Howard,I was the one that you posted the pizza top...Howard,<BR/>I was the one that you posted the pizza toppings to. (though not the pineappe part, as I love pineapple on pizza. But I did mention that corn is not a traditional American pizza topping.)<BR/>It is true that I often will list things that I consider to be "standard" or "traditional" especially in regards to food when I post here, but it is by no means the limit of what is enjoyed on this side of the pond. We are an "inch deep and a mile wide" in regards to our food over here. While Corn/sweetcorn is not generally a traditional pizza topping here, it is by no means not to be found.<BR/>You can also find places that serve Cicadas** on pizza...but I feel 100% certain that they are not considered traditional American fare. ;) (like worms in a can.)<BR/><BR/>But yes, as Lynne said, the passion that is often seen when talking about food/culture preferences rarely has any actual animosity involved in it. <BR/><BR/>I think a good example of the "Same dish different views", outside of the pizza/Hot Dog issue, is sandwiches.<BR/>Anyone, be they Brit or Yank, will probably describe a sandwich the same way when you get down to basics, but then you find a restaurant that has over 200 different sandwiches available...<BR/>www.roysplacerestaurant.com<BR/>I guess my point is sort of similar to Johnb's comment about how many differnet views on things the US has...there may be a similar view at the very very base of things, but it goes all over the place after that.<BR/><BR/>**<I>"Cicadas: Good Enough to Eat?"</I> on washingtonpost.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44618333298703866152008-06-05T16:33:00.000+01:002008-06-05T16:33:00.000+01:00I completely forgot about this, but in my one trip...I completely forgot about this, but in my one trip to the UK, I actually got a fiarly standard US Hot Dog. (again, not sure if they are ACTUALLY hard to come by over there, but from some of the posts, it seems like they are)<BR/><BR/>I was visiting Aberdeen and went to Codona's Amusement park, which looked to me to be a fairly decent replica of a US Boardwalk. (though the number of Statue of Liberty pictures was a bit much)<BR/>One of the options for admission was ticket price plus lunch, which could be a hamburger or a hot dog, both with French Fries/Chips (though they called them French Fries. I assume to keep up the US theme.)<BR/>I got the Hot Dog and it was just like the ones back home...of course, at this point, it never occurred to me that it might be different.<BR/><BR/>So any Expats who can't find a good US dog, you could give them a shot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80959893542075742552008-06-05T15:56:00.000+01:002008-06-05T15:56:00.000+01:00> now that is a can of worms.You can worms in the ...> now that is a can of worms.<BR/><BR/>You can <B>worms</B> in the States?!!!<BR/><BR/>Even Princes Food Company (see tonil's reference above) doesn't do that! :-) :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76431219764985131972008-06-05T15:25:00.000+01:002008-06-05T15:25:00.000+01:00Dan, brat is very common in (at least parts of) th...Dan, <I>brat</I> is very common in (at least parts of) the Midwest. It was what they were called when I lived in Illinois. Note (for those who don't know) that it is pronounced differently from the child kind of <I>brat</I>. The sausage's 'a' is more like the 'a' in <I>father</I>.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34530088083172026582008-06-05T02:00:00.000+01:002008-06-05T02:00:00.000+01:00I'm a bit late to the dance, but...I'm 49 and from...I'm a bit late to the dance, but...<BR/><BR/>I'm 49 and from Michigan and I have heard of the term "red hot" for "hot dog", but have never used it. I have gone to lots of baseball games, so that may be where I picked it up.<BR/><BR/>When I was young and visiting family in North Carolina, we had hot dogs that were actually red on the outside. They were also longer and skinnier, and didn't taste anything like we were used to.<BR/><BR/>I have not seen any red-colored hot dogs since./Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03047791442047645832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-895731134427684642008-06-05T01:03:00.000+01:002008-06-05T01:03:00.000+01:00Anne:The annual celebration in New Braunfels is ca...Anne:<BR/><BR/>The annual celebration in New Braunfels is called Wurstfest, not Brat Fest. It always begins with "the biting of the wurst."<BR/><BR/>In nearly two decades of stories from the San Antonio Express-News and San Antonio Light, I can't find any use of the word "brat." <BR/><BR/>In New Braunfels, they serve various kinds of wurst, and I guess bratwurst is among them, but I don't think the word "brat" is all that common.<BR/><BR/>Dan Puckett<BR/>San Antonio, TexasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13503603309048108892008-06-04T13:15:00.000+01:002008-06-04T13:15:00.000+01:00The link below will take you to some photos, if yo...The link below will take you to some photos, if you dare to look!<BR/>http://www.girlalive.com/food/011.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22743546500356821852008-06-04T12:53:00.000+01:002008-06-04T12:53:00.000+01:00Indeed, and I was totally unapologetic about my to...Indeed, and I was totally unapologetic about my toast opinions! <BR/><BR/>There is a bit of a difference, I think, between food and dialect 'intolerance'. People's judg(e)ments about each other's language frequently imply judg(e)ments about their intelligence and character. For instance, as we've mentioned before here, talking like a 'hick' in the US leads some people to judge you to be stupid. Talking like urban youth brings other assumptions. Food mockery, to me, seems more benign--particularly when it's clearly a matter of tastes rather than, say, economics. (I think, for instance, that judg(e)ments about people who eat squirrel are founded on different kinds of socio-economic assumptions than judg(e)ments about pizza or popcorn toppings.) I hope that any such mockery here is in the vein of friendly ribbing, rather than nasty accusation.<BR/><BR/>That all said, I think may not have been super clear in the post that 'red hots' are not spicy. They're just hot dogs. Hence, it's strange to (sort of) name a pepperoni/jalapeño pizza after them. I think that's become more clear through the subsequent discussion...but thought I'd say it anyhow.<BR/><BR/>(not often I get to be 'young Lynne'! Can't imagine I'll be able to carry that off much longer!)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80538480051239563022008-06-04T04:50:00.000+01:002008-06-04T04:50:00.000+01:00I used to possess a record by the American ragtime...I used to possess a record by the American ragtime/blues guitarist Stefan Grossman. One track, a medley of instrumental tunes with a tune titled "Hot Dogs" at the beginning, started with Stefan calling out, "Hot dogs, hot dogs! Get 'em while they're red hot!", in imitation of an open-air vendor. This seems to me to suggest that Stefan -- or the <BR/>vendor whose street-call he was imitating -- considered 'red hot' to refer to the sausages' temperature, rather than any other quality.<BR/><BR/><BR/>It's so easy to be sneering about what other people like to eat,isn't it? Thus: 'Krauts', 'Frogs', 'Cheese-eating surrender-monkeys', 'Spaghetti westerns', 'Rosbifs', and so forth.<BR/><BR/>Also, what one nation calls a thing is not necessarily the same as the thing in the nation of its origin. As I understand it, 'French dressing' in America is not something you'd easily find in France, nor is 'Italian sausage' necessarily anything like any sausage you'd find in Italy. Nor are pizze in either the U.K or U.S. like pizze from their original home, Naples.<BR/><BR/>Earlier in your blog, Lynne, when one of your countrymen mocked corn and pineapple as pizza toppings (as if it matters what people like to eat, for Heaven's sake!), I pointed him via Google to recipes and restaurants in America that had just those pizza toppings. If your American family are so horrified (though there are far greater things to be horrified in <BR/>this world) by sausages in a jar, perhaps you ought to get them to google 'wieners jar'. Such things seem not to be unknown in America.<BR/><BR/>Isn't it funny how when talking about what we eat, academic dispassionateness flies out of the window? Consider your own comments about toast, young Lynne!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-82126536413473107112008-06-03T21:44:00.000+01:002008-06-03T21:44:00.000+01:00Of course...not at all...And the answer is probabl...Of course...not at all...<BR/><BR/>And the answer is probably the latter...<BR/><BR/>Just ask anyone about whether they prefer Chicago style pizza or New York...now that is a can of worms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78440755228818611082008-06-03T19:08:00.000+01:002008-06-03T19:08:00.000+01:00Bill - I was aware of quite a bit of that. There ...Bill - I was aware of quite a bit of that. <BR/><BR/>There is a whole different post potentially (again not for this blog) on whether America is a country with a single outlook on things - or half a continent with 50 different outlooks on things :)<BR/><BR/>It doesn't change the fact that from most Britons a hotdog is a sausage in a bun.JohnBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17557412116309148129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3469440809791111652008-06-03T18:59:00.000+01:002008-06-03T18:59:00.000+01:00I clearly offended you, Ellen. My apologies. I t...I clearly offended you, Ellen. My apologies. I tend to be responding while breast-feeding a sleeping baby...sorry to not have had my eye completely on the ball.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-84435146796085371422008-06-03T18:58:00.000+01:002008-06-03T18:58:00.000+01:00(Oops... sorry for the missmatched grammar in that...(Oops... sorry for the missmatched grammar in that last sentence. That's what I get for editing while I write.)Ellen Kozisekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16856539181411664278noreply@blogger.com