tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post5010286796160808066..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: burgers and hot dogslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29148231651557599382022-10-20T14:10:06.466+01:002022-10-20T14:10:06.466+01:00Having just seen the "Mexican" episode o...Having just seen the "Mexican" episode of Bake Off, that's another lexical difference that Lynne hasn't covered on the blog (not sure about Twitter): taco is the entire dish, tortilla is the wrap, in AmE. Probably because a lot of other foods based on tortillas are common here? (And you have to say Spanish tortilla to mean the egg-and-potato dish, to head that one off at the pass.) <br /><br />What I'd expect from a "taco dog" would vary, probably based on whether it was a primarily-hot-dog-serving place or a primarily-taco-serving place -- the hot dog place I'd expect it to indicate taco-inspired flavorings (whether that's meat or just salsa/cheese/guacamole) piled on top of a standard hot dog, because that's mostly what the various "specialty" dogs are at places like that. The taco place I'd expect a taco (tortilla, filling, some sort of slaw/lettuce/pico de gallo/cheese) that was substituting the correct type of sausage, possibly sliced up, for the meat. <br /><br />Although if the hot dog place was trying to suit special diets, I wouldn't be surprised to see a "taco dog" that was a gluten-free alternative with a 100% corn tortilla. antimonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35608177769975800802022-02-20T12:37:48.079+00:002022-02-20T12:37:48.079+00:00I know I'm late to the party, but the burger t...I know I'm late to the party, but the burger thing is by far my biggest pet peeve with British English. To describe a sandwich based on the bread makes no sense. The filling is where it's at. If I ordered a pastrami sandwich on rye and I got home and opened it and it was on whole wheat, I'd be mildly annoyed. But if I got tuna on rye, I'd get my coat back on and walk back to the restaurant for a new sandwich. <br /><br />There is just so much ambiguity in the way Brits use the word. What is a veggie burger? Is it some fried onions and peppers on a bun or is it a veggie patty on a bun? Is a chicken burger a ground chicken patty on a bun or a a chicken thigh or breast? Is a cheeseburger a slice of cheese on a bun? All this does is lead to confusion. At best, you need overly long names to describe what you're actually getting and you have to read all the description or ask, so it makes the whole process harder.<br /><br />And for the Americans up above who said there are no "chicken burgers" in the US, there are. I don't know if they're common any more, but when the turkey burger became a thing, a chicken burger made a go at it too. They even made it to chain restaurant menus and everything. There's also salmon burgers, tuna burgers etc etc etc. You might never have seen these on a menu or tried them, but they are all a patty of meat, on a bun. A burger. The only possible confusion is that you can also buy a chicken patty (in the freezer section), that is a patty of chicken that's breaded. The single fly in the ointment, compared to the British way of doing it that seems all fly and no ointment. Sorry if I sound rude, but like I said, this is my biggest pet peeve. Rebeccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01590734471045160949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25620388173306101092020-10-26T19:19:30.704+00:002020-10-26T19:19:30.704+00:00I don't know whether this goes here or on the ...I don't know whether this goes here or on the even older post about baked goods, but on Facebook yesterday, an American friend posted a photo of what she called a "taco dog". The picture showed something in an ordinary bridge roll with something on top - my friend elaborated that the topping was called "taco meat", whatever that is. I (BrE) would have expected, had I ordered such a thing, that it would be a sausage served in a taco, so the type of bread (or wrap, in this case) rather than the contents!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9129093256282405522020-08-26T17:04:20.919+01:002020-08-26T17:04:20.919+01:00I would refer to the type of roll from which a hot...I would refer to the type of roll from which a hot dog is made as a "bridge roll", which probably dates me! (Elderly Southern BrE).<br />Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42809657638786287642020-08-26T17:03:05.260+01:002020-08-26T17:03:05.260+01:00Most of the more upmarket chains - GBK, Byron, etc...Most of the more upmarket chains - GBK, Byron, etc, (although not, I think, Honest Burgers) will happily sell you a burger without a roll, often with extra salad. And in the kind of pubs that sell really good burgers, as so many do, you can often get a "naked burger", being just a burger, with or without a bun, without any toppings.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17321687103616842902020-08-26T11:54:47.386+01:002020-08-26T11:54:47.386+01:00BrE (Scot, 60+). I’m a bit surprised that none of ...BrE (Scot, 60+). I’m a bit surprised that none of the BrE commenters have mentioned the British fairground (AmE carnival?) hamburger. Usually larger and flatter than a McDonalds, and served in a larger (but still round) roll, these patties come with or without fried onions. You add the tomato sauce (ketchup) and/or mustard yourself. From a plastic squeezy bottle. Anything salads like lettuce or sliced tomato is not available. Often described as tasting like cardboard.<br /> Years ago I watched Roseanne (the US sitcom) regularly. I seem to remember a story arc where Roseanne and her sister went into business selling “loose meat sandwiches”. At the time, I assumed that loose meat was another synonym for ground meat or mince. It almost is, but only if the word sandwich is included, apparently.<br /> As others gave said, at home, I would usually steve my burger on a plate with no roll (to me, a bun is sweet), with something like chips. I have never managed to order this in a U.K. restaurant: the roll is obligatory, and it’s also really difficult not to have salad and/or mayo. Leaving the roll and fillings to one side is not an option. My generation don’t waste food.<br /> Finally, have Americans always talked about burger buns, or is this terminology an invention of the big burger chains, as it is I the U.K. (IMO).Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16820814179823530452020-02-28T19:11:24.571+00:002020-02-28T19:11:24.571+00:00I'm 71, grew up in Missouri and California. Wh...I'm 71, grew up in Missouri and California. When I was a child, stores advertised hamburger BUNS and hot dog ROLLS. And hot dog referred to the sandwich, not the susage. Hamburger was the ground meat, and some restaurants had "hamburger sandwiches" on the menu, meaning what we call burgers today.<br /><br />There was also a technical difference between wieners and frankfurters, but I was never clear on that. Apparently, wieners contained beef and frankfurters did not. "Red Hots" were either cinnamon candies, or tamales, or (in movies) hot dogs sold at a sporting event.Joyce Meltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74301759440738759602018-11-12T08:27:37.944+00:002018-11-12T08:27:37.944+00:00Late-breaking burger-y US evidence, courtesy Ameri...Late-breaking burger-y US evidence, courtesy <a href="https://www.americastestkitchen.com/" rel="nofollow">America's Test Kitchen</a>.<br /><br />For the uninitiated, ATK is a cooking show on US public broadcasting. It's part of the larger <a href="https://www.cooksillustrated.com/" rel="nofollow">Cook's Illustrated</a> empire, with the same shtick: trying to find "the perfect recipe."<br /><br />I recently filled out a survey for them. My reward? A free copy of <i>Ultimate Burgers.</i> Crucial point for the burger debate, as <a href="https://oxymoron.smugmug.com/Other/SmugShots/i-crQ97jT/A" rel="nofollow">illustrated on the back cover</a>: every blessed one of the 23 "perfected" recipes is made from ground-up stuff. Ground beef, ground pork with chopped-up andouille, ground turkey, ground shrimp, ground black beans, ground lentil-mushroom-onion-bulgur. (Which means that every blessed recipe also calls for a food processor, but that's a separate problem.)<br /><br />On the other hand, take <a href="https://oxymoron.smugmug.com/Other/SmugShots/i-crQ97jT/A" rel="nofollow">a second look</a> at that photo. I've highlighted two of the squares showing that a "burger" doesn't need to be on a <a href="https://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2006/07/baked-goods.html" rel="nofollow">bun</a>. One of photos shows a burger on a salad, and another illustrates the recipe for Patty Melts, which are served <a href="https://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2014/05/sandwiches-more-particularly-bacon.html" rel="nofollow">on toast</a>.<br /><br />Very American source, very American answer to "what makes a burger a burger?" It's what's in the middle, not what it's served on. And what's in the middle is ground-up stuff, not a solid mass of something.Christian Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561529462675001889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14233169720985047832017-08-11T19:47:37.390+01:002017-08-11T19:47:37.390+01:00And to really add to the confusion, a concoction o...And to really add to the confusion, a concoction of a fried, or broiled cooked blue crab meat, is called a crab cake. Like a cod fish cake, or salmon cake. We don't have fish pie in the US that I know of. Sounds tasty though. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88208960418772336582017-02-13T00:34:30.478+00:002017-02-13T00:34:30.478+00:00Yes, this would be understood as thr primary meani...Yes, this would be understood as thr primary meaning in North America. Tofu, mushroom, mixed bean/lentil/etc, and "veggie burger" are all commonly used vegetarian alternatives to a meat patty. <br /><br />In contrast, if they meant a beef hamburger covered in mixed bean topping, they'd probably give it some sort of name and then describe it (e.g. "The Spicy Greek: a tender beef patty topped with spiced mixed beans and tzatziki") to avoid confusion with a bean-based veggie burgerLauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65454782508158862842017-02-13T00:29:20.860+00:002017-02-13T00:29:20.860+00:00Part of the problem is that in AmE (and my native...Part of the problem is that in AmE (and my native CanE), both of those constructions are used.<br /><br />Cheeseburger or bacon burger = hamburger (beef) with cheese or bacon<br />Turkey burger or veggie burger = patty made of turkey or whatever it is vegetarians mash up to make a burger<br /><br />Generally, I'd say it's clear from context: if *burger refers to a topping, it's added<br /> If *burger is naming a meat or commonly used meat alternative (e.g. veggie burger, portobello mushroom), it's what the patty is made of.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63385342161373727322017-02-13T00:20:17.623+00:002017-02-13T00:20:17.623+00:00Interesting. In Canada, it would be called a chick...Interesting. In Canada, it would be called a chicken burger whether it's a breast or a fried breaded patty (and hopefully the description on the menu would clarify which format they meant!).<br /><br />A chicken sandwich might also be served in a kaiser roll or something similar, in which case it's virtually indistinguishable from a chicken burger (except the sandwich is more likely to have mayo/aioli and the burger might have ketchup or BBQ sauce)... I suppose the question is where it shows up on the menu. If it's listed alongside ham sandwiches, wraps, etc, it's a chicken sandwich. If it's with burgers, it's a chicken burger. It's funny how these things seem totally natural until you try to rationalize them to someone else :PLauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87156654962303924062016-10-14T13:54:33.589+01:002016-10-14T13:54:33.589+01:00That's certainly my experience. Nine times out...That's certainly my experience. Nine times out of ten if it says "hot dog" you get a frankfurter in a hot dog roll (bun), with one time out of ten being "WTF is this?" I think "hot dog style" might be permissible for the latter, but it's still weird given that frankfurters and hot dog rolls are widely available in supermarkets.Nick Cooperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14561506170084635898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-483460164094900022015-06-08T02:29:01.937+01:002015-06-08T02:29:01.937+01:00I know this is a bit of a bump but i thought it wo...I know this is a bit of a bump but i thought it would be appropriate to add here there are two things really.<br /><br />The first is about the differences between a hot dog and a frankfurter in the US. A product labeled as hotdogs or franks are any of those thin reddish sausages that have been discused and can be made of chicken pork beef or turkey and any mix of those meats, and the most common makeup is pork chicken and beef. But a frankfurter which i have never seen packaged as a hot dog will be all beef and either have a natural casing or be labeled as skinless. However if someone says hotdog they may be referencing either one.<br /><br />And the second thing which is really why i posted was because where i grew up in East Hampton, New York. Out on the end of Long Island for those who are curious. We referred to ground beef as chop meat, almost never chopped meat (but sometimes), and it was even often labeled that way in the stores. It was always what we would call ground beef never any other meat, and we still referred to other ground or minced meats as 'ground lamb' 'ground veal' etc.<br /><br />Hope this is more informative and interesting as a late comment than it is annoying.<br />thanks for the blog.Kristopher Belhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11425804570417278519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28511832683309766362014-08-01T08:03:06.111+01:002014-08-01T08:03:06.111+01:00After living in England for a year I am still lear...After living in England for a year I am still learning new terms for things. Love it.Big Daddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15945055438225578810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29124400195847315582014-06-09T03:39:08.885+01:002014-06-09T03:39:08.885+01:00I second Colleen's post about chicken burgers ...I second Colleen's post about chicken burgers in Canada. A chicken burger (I would never call it a chicken sandwich--that would require bread instead of a bun) is usually breast if at a restaurant, and usually breaded deep-fried patty at fast food.<br /><br />However, the way that a deep-fried chicken patty is made is different than a beef patty. To me, a beef burger is ground/minced beef molded into a patty shape. A turkey burger would be the same. A chicken burger is not molded minced chicken; it's more the consistency of a large McDonald's chicken nugget.<br /><br />Side note: While studying in England, I discovered a lot of minced chicken in things like spaghetti sauce. I was surprised -- I can't recall EVER having minced chicken in Canada. Beef, absolutely. Lamb, maybe. Turkey is certainly becoming more common. But chicken? Never. Is it just me, or is minced chicken much more common in the UK?Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6348896238819334722013-09-22T01:02:00.803+01:002013-09-22T01:02:00.803+01:00Aren't they called Hamburgers because they are...Aren't they called Hamburgers because they are from Hamburg? Frankfurters are from Frankfurt. Weiners are from Vienna.... Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05494214281021795921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78028889110475984512013-09-03T13:00:13.320+01:002013-09-03T13:00:13.320+01:00Beeing from Germany I'm used to Frikandels (a ...Beeing from Germany I'm used to Frikandels (a long, skinless, dark-coloured meat sausage from the Netherlands- usually deep-fried) in a Hot Dog bun.<br />I consider Wiener or Frankfurter Würstchen not as the real deal, so imagine my disappointment ordering a Hot Dog in the US for the first (and last) time and getting one as sold at Ikea. I felt betrayed ;o)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74704949641723154212013-08-23T20:14:17.160+01:002013-08-23T20:14:17.160+01:00"I didn't see this elsewhere in the comme..."I didn't see this elsewhere in the comments, but to me (in Iowa), a "beefburger" is loose cooked ground beef served on a hamburger bun. "<br /><br />I've heard that called a Coney Island Burger.Scott P.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32059866255228510462013-08-10T08:10:47.242+01:002013-08-10T08:10:47.242+01:00That's the kind of thing that's discussed ...That's the kind of thing that's discussed (in the comments at least) in the 'barbecue' post, so click through if you'd like to be a part of that discussion. It's a very regional word. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-50772108242287670472013-08-10T00:04:58.104+01:002013-08-10T00:04:58.104+01:00I'm sorry, but I feel the need to clear someth...I'm sorry, but I feel the need to clear something up. A COOK OUT involves hamburgers and hot dogs. A BARBEQUE serves barbequed meat--low and slow my friends and certainly no hamburgers. <br /><br />But, maybe that's just a Texas thing?<br />Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17455294407484080572013-08-03T04:44:44.727+01:002013-08-03T04:44:44.727+01:00PS - your original point reminds me of an experien...PS - your original point reminds me of an experience i had in japan. while there are a few non-beef uses of steak in english ("swordfish steak"), i think we can all agree there is a DEFAULT meaning to "steak" alone.<br /><br />so imagine my surprise when i ordered "steak" and got...TOFU! not b/c it was some sort of vegan substitute but just b/c the owner decided "tofu steak" was as good a default as any. in perfect english, she parried my complaint with "OUR steak is tofu - did you want a meat one instead maybe?"<br /><br />LOL. live and learn. what do you expect in a country where hotdogs are made of...FISH?!<br /><br />("wiener" the term to use for a meat one....)<br />charlie tunanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80736791961895740542013-08-03T04:32:38.921+01:002013-08-03T04:32:38.921+01:00yank here. and while i fully understand the issue...yank here. and while i fully understand the issue here, i am puzzled over reader comments about "a mere sausage" vis-à-vis hotdogs. sausage is a major UPGRADE over a hotdog! going to an event expecting (US) "hotdogs" and finding sausages would surprise me as well, but only insofar as i'd be surprised to find filet mignon where hamburgers had been advertised. i'd keep my mouth SHUT and enjoy my good fortune.<br /><br />btw, in my native boston, "hotdog" is the norm, but "frankfurt" sans -er comes next (like hamburg and cheeseburg). i rarely hear the "frankfurter" except in rocky horror discussions.<br /><br />also, "red hot" is a very specific (super spicy and BRIGHT RED) TYPE of hotdog. i don't know anyone who uses that for hotdogs in general -- is that regional?<br />charlie tunanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67923588868702539112013-07-27T06:48:06.473+01:002013-07-27T06:48:06.473+01:00David Crosbie
*blinks* Good grief -- what did I j...David Crosbie<br /><br />*blinks* Good grief -- what did I just listen to? *blinks some more and falls off my chair laughing!* <br /><br />That was beyond awesome!! Thank you for the link!! (Yes, I'm about to use up my allotment of exclamation points.) <br /><br />We actually have two types of hot dogs sold regularly in stores (at least where I live), both kinds of them packaged in the plastic already earlier referred to. One is made from pork and chicken, the other is all beef, both are usually sold under the same brand name and clearly labeled as to which they are, and the all beef usually cost more. They vary in price by brand from very cheap to rather expensive, but as Lynne says, the best are all beef and usually kosher. I've always heard you <i>really don't</i> want to know what goes into the making of hot dogs, but my impression is that they are both from the ... uh, left over excess for lack of a better term? That said, I agree, I had some were kosher beef, hideously expensive (two to three times the price of the ones I usually buy), and insanely wonderful, as in you've-just-died-and-gone-to-heaven better than the usual ones I buy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42297200536516760462013-07-24T14:06:32.042+01:002013-07-24T14:06:32.042+01:00The best American hot dogs are kosher and therefor...The best American hot dogs are kosher and therefore beef. My faves have natural casings. In my experience UK frankfurters are inedibly mushy in the mouth. So it's no wonder most would prefer a Cumberland or Lincolnshire. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.com