tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post533256195121361201..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: hire and rentlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76355907588264840092019-06-13T17:25:41.881+01:002019-06-13T17:25:41.881+01:00BrE, Scot, mid 60s. In “Diary of a Nobody” (publis...BrE, Scot, mid 60s. In “Diary of a Nobody” (published in book form 1892) the Pooters bought their piano on “the three years’ plan”. For all of my life, the term “housing schemes” has been used all over Scotland. “Schemie” I only started to hear in the 1990s, although I have lived and worked in England for over 40 years, so it could have been common for longer. The term is used as a perjorative by those who don’t live on schemes, and with wry pride by those who do. I have also heard daytime tv called “scemie telly” (also reality shows).Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13016236639229522092018-12-25T03:31:52.694+00:002018-12-25T03:31:52.694+00:00Michael Palin on the Monty Python Search For The H...Michael Palin on the Monty Python Search For The Holy Grail home video, well in the extras he goes to Doune Castle. That was the castle they used for Camelot. It's a tourist trap now. If you go there and forget to bring some hollowed out coconut halves to pretend you have are riding a horse, they have a set under the counter that you can rent. So Michael says "So you can hire these coconuts!" This was my first exposure to this term. Then a British guy on an Area 51 discussion board, of all places, describes his trek out to a mountain top to see Area 51 in Nevada. He rented a car and drove it all the way out to the dusty unpaved wilderness. He said, "I wonder what the gentleman at the car hire firm would say if he saw me all the way out here!" Car hire firm sounds so much more posh than the humble car rental agency!Rev_Sysyphushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07696821061891045677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5253610601924081812015-04-13T17:59:25.433+01:002015-04-13T17:59:25.433+01:00I wonder if there was a shift in the US from hirin...I wonder if there was a shift in the US from hiring things to renting them. In a bank I frequent near Atlantic City there is a mural of an old Atlantic City (I presume) beach which, I somehow only noticed today, has a sign that reads "Bathing suits for hire, 25 cents". Aside from the language, I find it strange that people used to rent (or hire) bathing suits. I hope they washed them well.Boris Zakharinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560756640621720539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54121574884223850662014-05-16T20:16:29.577+01:002014-05-16T20:16:29.577+01:00US law loves to use "schemes" and "...US law loves to use "schemes" and "devices" to refer to bad things. <a href="http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=scheme&f=treesort&fq=true&num=52&hl=true&edition=prelim&granuleId=USC-prelim-title18-section1001" rel="nofollow">For example</a>:<br /><br />Whoever ... falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact ... shall be fined or imprisoned.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26459068981645195762014-05-16T01:07:49.475+01:002014-05-16T01:07:49.475+01:00John Cowan
The more general sense of scheme is hi...John Cowan<br /><br /><i>The more general sense of scheme is highly pejorative in NAmE: it means plot, not plan.</i><br /><br />And yet there's this verse from <b>Can't Get Started</b>:<br /><br /><i>You're so supreme, lyrics I write of you<br /><b>Scheme</b> just for a sight of you<br />Dream both day and night of you<br />And what good does it do?</i><br /><br />And from the Taft Blues Concordance:<br /><br /><i>I got to find me a <b>scheme</b> : to get my gal all to herself<br />Because I'm a fool about that woman : don't want nobody else<br /><br />For everything : he's got a <b>scheme</b><br />I like the way : he whips my cream<br />My man is : such a handy man</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65889806032722836412014-05-15T06:22:17.548+01:002014-05-15T06:22:17.548+01:00The more general sense of scheme is highly pejorat...The more general sense of <i>scheme</i> is highly pejorative in NAmE: it means plot, not plan. <i>Government schemes</i> are generally about licensing something or taking away benefits/rights.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83485563356317798822014-04-20T18:50:44.171+01:002014-04-20T18:50:44.171+01:00Two BrE usages: the hired hand - temporary help on...Two BrE usages: the hired hand - temporary help on the land or perhaps as a garden labourer. Could have been taken on at a 'hiring fair' as described earlier - also known as 'mop fairs' since servants might take with them an indication of their trade, such as a mop, shepherd's crook, etc.<br />And 'lay-away' is still used in Britain when buying knitting wool; the shop will retain a few balls of wool for you so that your garment is all of the same dye batch.biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7231991889708422792014-04-17T19:46:13.854+01:002014-04-17T19:46:13.854+01:00"Scheme" for housing estate or project:
..."<i>Scheme</i>" for housing estate or project:<br />I came across this usage in County Durham in 1965.Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11118633454482039622014-04-17T14:27:44.648+01:002014-04-17T14:27:44.648+01:00In Scottish English you also get the perjorative &...In Scottish English you also get the perjorative "schemie"/"scheme-y" (I'm not sure how to write it) meaning a person from a scheme (with the implication being youths of limited prospects out to cause trouble/up to no good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7522763672486363952014-04-16T18:13:55.842+01:002014-04-16T18:13:55.842+01:00Dru - that's still the primary meaning of the ...Dru - that's still the primary meaning of the word in American English, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42727764340125923592014-04-15T23:15:36.471+01:002014-04-15T23:15:36.471+01:00I'm not familiar with 'scheme' to mean...I'm not familiar with 'scheme' to mean a housing estate, but would regard 'project' to describe an estate of public or housing association housing as a definite North American marker. In English-English usage a project is something that you, an organisation or whatever has in mind to do, 'we've got a project to open a chain of shops in the West Midlands', 'the University has a project to develop courses for foreign students', or even, 'my pet project for this year is to get a new car'.Drunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-19991083855165321612014-04-15T14:47:21.605+01:002014-04-15T14:47:21.605+01:00David,
my experience was mainly 30 years ago on th...David,<br />my experience was mainly 30 years ago on the West side of the country, but Wikipedia confirms it in the second headline paragraph here:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house<br /><br />So someone else is obviously familiar with this usage. <br />I can hear it in my head now as a very curt word that takes about half the time to say as the English word "scheme".Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01628722112979043156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47042847011563935812014-04-15T12:35:21.882+01:002014-04-15T12:35:21.882+01:00Sorry! My spellchecker is merciless.
Two serious...Sorry! My spellchecker is merciless.<br /><br /> Two serious corrections:<br /><br /><i>my instinct was confined = my instinct was <b>confirmed</b></i><br /><br /><i>ale ring the power structure = <b>altering</b> the power structure</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31064230360417488272014-04-15T12:19:07.245+01:002014-04-15T12:19:07.245+01:00Simon
I've heard talk of schemes in Glasgow, ...Simon<br /><br />I've heard talk of <b>schemes</b> in Glasgow, but never in Edinburgh.<br /><br />My instincts are not reliable since I'm English and only in recent decades have I lived in Edinburgh. So I searched the online archive of the Edinburgh Evening Post. Almost till the end, my instinct was confined. <b>Scheme</b> was used:<br /><br />• as pretty much a synonym of <b>project</b> — often collocated with <b>pilot</b>. Some of these <b>schemes/projects</b> were for future housing, which is presumably how the words came to mean actual housing in the US and Glasgow.<br /><br />• as a new regulated arrangement, generally ale ring the power structure between some authority and the people it deals with. Some such schemes give added powered to the authority, some to the punter.<br /><br />• The very last article in the search wrote of <b>Trainspotting</b> being set in <i>grim, gritty and grotesque schemes, deprived dens awash with crime, abuse and poverty which until then, no-one had really cared to write about.</i><br /><br />Could it be that <b>scheme</b> has become a pejorative term outside (ScE outwith) some but not all cities.? That's what seems to have happened to <i>tenement</i>, which is a perfectly respectable term here is Edinburgh.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64973793090762392242014-04-15T10:55:14.644+01:002014-04-15T10:55:14.644+01:00There are some tangents on this discussion thread,...There are some tangents on this discussion thread, but Ted's remarks about "estates" remind me that England and Scotland are also "separated by a common language": what is a "(housing) estate" in England, is a "(housing) scheme" in Scotland, where you will hear phrases like "she stays on the scheme" meaning "she lives in that estate". Both of them could be renting, of course.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01628722112979043156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4625410842917002862014-04-15T10:53:11.916+01:002014-04-15T10:53:11.916+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01628722112979043156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59865152118545811952014-04-15T01:17:58.638+01:002014-04-15T01:17:58.638+01:00John Cowan
Thanks for the clear exposition.
That...John Cowan<br /><br />Thanks for the clear exposition.<br /><br />That <b>lien</b> in an instalment plan renders it practically the same in effect as a hire purchase agreement, despite the theoretical difference.<br /><br />In all the <b>Furniture Man</b> songs, the villain was sent to enforce that lien.<br /><br />It's not a word I've heard in BrE, even in law reports, but I do know the striking verse — in these close variants:<br /><br /><i>I ain't going to state no color : but her front teeth crowned with gold<br />She got a mortgage on my body : and a lien on my soul<br /><br />Now I got a brownskin girl : with her front tooth crowned with gold<br />She got a lien on my body : and a mortgage on my soul<br /><br />She ain't good-looking : she got two teeth crowned with gold<br /> Got a lien on her body : got a mortgage on her soul</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2694605374665047332014-04-15T00:38:19.463+01:002014-04-15T00:38:19.463+01:00Hire purchase, the installment plan, rent-to-own a...Hire purchase, the installment plan, rent-to-own and layaway may be distinguished thus:<br /><br />In hire purchase, the ownership remains with the seller until the purchase price is fully paid.<br /><br />In the installment plan, the ownership transfers immediately, but the seller has a lien whereby they can repossess the object if the installments are not paid. There are a number of things you can still get on the installment plan, notably college tuition; you can also pay your back taxes in installments if the tax people agree.<br /><br />In rent to own, ownership does not pass to the buyer until a fixed time elapses and the buyer decides to do so: the object may be returned to the seller at any time before that without penalty. (There is no reason to fear buying something by accident.) What the buyer gets is basically a right to buy at a fixed price in the future, which fixed price is covered by installments.<br /><br />In layaway, both ownership and physical possession remain with the seller until the price is paid. This is is least risk for the seller, maximum risk for the buyer, because the buyer loses their money if they default.<br /><br />I live in cooperative housing, which is rather unusual in the U.S. but pretty common in NYC. This means that my apartment building is owned by a corporation in which I and the other inhabitants own shares. I don't pay rent as such; I pay a monthly maintenance fee for upkeep of the building, taxes, insurance, and prudent reserve. Most coop owners also pay their share of the building mortgage, but my building happens not to be mortgaged (it was formerly owned by the NYC government, from whom I rented my apartment). It is also a rule of my particular building that I can only sell my shares back to the corporation and not to any third party.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28619850011760428922014-04-14T20:13:15.159+01:002014-04-14T20:13:15.159+01:00@Dru: Even in the USA, I wouldn't expect to h...@Dru: Even in the USA, I wouldn't expect to hear "decedent" anywhere outside the context of inheritance law.<br /><br />vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-82622282144758451872014-04-14T14:21:11.920+01:002014-04-14T14:21:11.920+01:00@Dru: I don't know where I picked it up, but ...@Dru: I don't know where I picked it up, but nobody in my family used it. I was posting from home before, but at work I have OED access, and it says gives pungle < Spanish póngale put it (sc. the money) down, and all the early citations (going back to 1851) are American. It appears in <i>The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn</i>, so that may be where I learned it.Buzzhttp://unrealisticdialogue.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59743825462320241162014-04-14T09:00:41.484+01:002014-04-14T09:00:41.484+01:00I've never heard 'pungle up'. Is it an...I've never heard 'pungle up'. Is it an idiolect or familiolect?Drunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31525703682985304282014-04-14T01:56:22.671+01:002014-04-14T01:56:22.671+01:00My blues records are full of references to room re...My blues records are full of references to <b>room rent</b> and <b>house rent</b>. Is that general AmE, or a feature of Black English present or past?David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78703340075057856072014-04-13T23:24:11.288+01:002014-04-13T23:24:11.288+01:00@Mrs. Redboots: Yes, the money you pay your landl...@Mrs. Redboots: Yes, the money you pay your landlord is "rent."<br /><br />@John Burgess: There is a key difference between lay-away purchases and those made on the installment plant (or rent to own). For the former, the buyer only gets possession of their purchase once they have paid the full amount. The store sets aside (or "lays away," which sounds rather British to me, although I suppose it isn't) the item so that they won't sell out before the buyer has pungled up the total amount. (Is "pungle up" more common in British than American usage? The phrase comes naturally to me, but I don't think I know anyone else who uses it.)Buzzhttp://unrealisticdialogue.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80488462013813098032014-04-13T18:30:16.310+01:002014-04-13T18:30:16.310+01:00@ Lynne - but is the money one pays for one's ...@ Lynne - but is the money one pays for one's accommodation known as "rent" or "the rent" in the USA, as it is here, or is a different term used?Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16046621565190538372014-04-13T16:00:53.959+01:002014-04-13T16:00:53.959+01:00Annabel, Dru
I had much the same assumption as yo...Annabel, Dru<br /><br />I had much the same assumption as you, Annabel, but the OED case is persuasive. <b>Rent</b> in this sense seems to be older than <b>rent boy</b>.<br /><br />The tabloid, Dru, use the term <b>rent boy</b> quite extensively. But not, I think, as a more pejorative wording that the alternatives. Rather it's short and direct. Any prejudice conveyed by the reference is not down to the words used.<br /><br />The only objective term I can think of is <i>young male sex worker</i>. That's just not how tabloids write.<br /><br />The term used to conjure up a picture of a teenage runaway surviving on the streets, but usage seems to have broadened out.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.com