tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post54249308047725803..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: zwieback, rusks--and more on biscuitslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87302523578233717572022-01-30T19:23:49.788+00:002022-01-30T19:23:49.788+00:00Enlightening stuff, to be sure, but to me it feels...Enlightening stuff, to be sure, but to me it feels incomplete without any mention of the word ‘cracker.’Franz Reichsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01379841710408146405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58479914308611003212022-01-30T19:16:44.990+00:002022-01-30T19:16:44.990+00:00Short for cellophane packaging.Short for cellophane packaging.Franz Reichsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01379841710408146405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34566106020421757072022-01-30T19:15:18.635+00:002022-01-30T19:15:18.635+00:00Keep fighting the good fight! Brusketta forever! (...Keep fighting the good fight! Brusketta forever! (Spoken, not written.)Franz Reichsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01379841710408146405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24073842189709925282022-01-30T19:11:19.434+00:002022-01-30T19:11:19.434+00:00Perhaps it’s worth adding that the ‘ie’ in zwie is...Perhaps it’s worth adding that the ‘ie’ in zwie is pronounced like ‘ei’ in German, or so says my oracle, the Internet. (Do you think the problem at Delphi was that the oracle gave too much information?)Franz Reichsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01379841710408146405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14196226112649473342021-12-28T10:54:57.054+00:002021-12-28T10:54:57.054+00:00As far as I am concerned, crouton is French and re...As far as I am concerned, crouton is French and restaurant- speak for sippet - i.e stale bread cut in dice and fried, preferably in dripping from the roast. Added to improve home-made soup. Must be done just before serving soup.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01165312677357974536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16682514107450453582013-10-30T13:42:21.957+00:002013-10-30T13:42:21.957+00:00Like Canadian, to me Zwieback is a type of roll (s...Like Canadian, to me Zwieback is a type of roll (see http://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/zwieback-rolls) from the Mennonite tradition. It's something my grandparents would always make for family gatherings. I first heard of the hard biscuit/cracker kind when our family hosted an exchange student from Germany. I'm curious how the name came to represent two different types of bread - did they derive from the same original recipe? Or were there two recipes that were created independently?c_janaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01462920003341696563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58598197636877647772008-09-02T09:21:00.000+01:002008-09-02T09:21:00.000+01:00Speaking of apogees (and I entirely agree about th...Speaking of apogees (and I entirely agree about the plain chocolate-coated digestive biccie, even more so the plain choc KitKat), here's a lovely British site that that tells you more than you may want to know about the variety of biscuits in the UK and Europe<BR/>http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/<BR/>The title of the site reflects the housewife's cry halfway through the afternoon - 'Let's have a nice cup of tea and a sit down' - and a biscuit....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46604282367491928682008-09-02T06:47:00.000+01:002008-09-02T06:47:00.000+01:00@lynneguist: Thank you for explaining where to fin...@lynneguist: Thank you for explaining where to find the link. Sorry about that, I'm still getting the lay of the land here. Really enjoying your posts.Treginahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17729808687939596424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-264819561140518272008-09-01T07:36:00.000+01:002008-09-01T07:36:00.000+01:00Please read the comments policy for the blog. (Se...Please read the comments policy for the blog. (See the left margin for the link.)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88003302697539578872008-09-01T04:44:00.000+01:002008-09-01T04:44:00.000+01:00In a completely random and unrelated manner, I'd l...In a completely random and unrelated manner, I'd like to ask a question of the many readers of this blog. What is the derivation of the phrase "alas and alack"? I've been searching for a few days to no avail. <BR/><BR/>Please forgive me for bringing this into the comments of this blog... I often enjoy the stimulating discussion in the comments section.Andrew Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05737835930734082493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59570682516167961872008-08-31T01:17:00.000+01:002008-08-31T01:17:00.000+01:00Dummy has already been discussed elsewhere--click ...<I>Dummy</I> has already been discussed elsewhere--click on the 'baby paraphernalia' link in the first paragraph. It would be nice if the discussion of that and related terms could stay at that post so that people interested in the issue could find the discussion.<BR/><BR/>Got our first Farley's rusks today and was surprised to see that they don't look like biscotti (i.e. they don't look like South African rusks). They are round like big (BrE) biscuits/(AmE) cookies (at least the reduced sugar variety that I bought are). So, it should be said (again) that a wider range of things are called 'rusks' in BrE than are called 'zwieback' in AmE.<BR/><BR/>@jonathanbogart: zwieback is the name used on a national brand of teething biscuit, manufactured by Gerber's and it's not marked as regional in AmE dictionaries. So, there's no evidence here that it's regional, except for your lack of experience with it. But <A HREF="http://www.nutribase.com/grains.shtml" REL="nofollow">here it is</A> defined on an Arizona-based site. It's not the type of word that anyone should feel bad about not knowing, since it belongs to the baby-related jargon, and may even be a little old-fashioned there (since the fashion for giving them to teething babies seems to be being frightened out of the new generation of parents). So, moral of the story: just because you don't use a word doesn't mean it's not part of your community's dialect.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for getting all preachy. Must be time for me to start teaching again!<BR/><BR/>Also, just noticed a typo in the comment above where I said I'd been embarrassed by my typos! The UK gov't recommends breastfeeding exclusively for 6 months, but if the baby seems ready you can start them on food at FOUR months (not 7)!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91005118830504589492008-08-30T06:11:00.000+01:002008-08-30T06:11:00.000+01:00Let me toss in another BrE baby accessory name tha...Let me toss in another BrE baby accessory name that stumped me the first time I heard it: dummy, as in "He's acting like a baby who just threw his dummy out the pram." (That was the actual sentence, btw, I was watching Sky Sports Fanzone on Fox Soccer Channel.) It took me several minutes of googling to figure out that a dummy is what we normally call a pacifier in AmE. (I've also heard them called ninnies, nuks and plugs in casual conversation.) I already knew what a pram was, but when I related the story to a friend, they were more mystified by pram than by dummy.<BR/><BR/>I have heard the term cello pack frequently, but only because I am a buyer for a retail store and have to deal with the term when ordering.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for clarifying the word "rusk." I've heard it often but never have found such a thorough explanation before.Treginahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17729808687939596424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60315782011644607322008-08-28T18:37:00.000+01:002008-08-28T18:37:00.000+01:00Sorry, Trinovante39, I don't know of any online et...Sorry, Trinovante39, I don't know of any online etymological dictionaries for German - I use an old fashioned paper version, which tells me that <I>Zwie-</I> and <I>zwei</I> are variations of the same indo-Germanic root. English <I>two</I> is related to it as well. And just as in English <I>zwi-</I> is like <I>twi-</I> the version used for compounds. <BR/><BR/>More about biscuits and the German word Biskuit <A HREF="http://sister-luck.livejournal.com/88829.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2457022893146471702008-08-28T11:34:00.000+01:002008-08-28T11:34:00.000+01:00Biochemist - oh, a HobNob's not a digestive! Far t...Biochemist - oh, a HobNob's not a digestive! Far too knobbly, and I think it's got oats in it whereas digestives are wheatmeal. <BR/><BR/>Plain chocolate digestives are the apogee of the biscuit world. Hobnobs are mere johnny-come-lately pretenders to the throne...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27009657701732314752008-08-28T11:32:00.000+01:002008-08-28T11:32:00.000+01:00So, in fact, we were both saying the same thing!So, in fact, we were both saying the same thing!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17448588842764618002008-08-28T10:31:00.000+01:002008-08-28T10:31:00.000+01:00Mrs Redboots, I think I wasn't quite clear. I mean...Mrs Redboots, I think I wasn't quite clear. I meant to convey that if it's spelled "ie" in German, surely the pronunciation should be "ee". Apparently it is and it should.Ginger Yellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103410278129312943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42965361602928691862008-08-27T20:30:00.000+01:002008-08-27T20:30:00.000+01:00Thank you Sister_Luck for setting me straight. We ...Thank you Sister_Luck for setting me straight. We are here to learn. I presume zwei and zwie have the same root? Do you know of an on-line German etymological dictionary one can consult before hitting the Send button?Trinovante39https://www.blogger.com/profile/02097649637045322001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-39342034797800070962008-08-27T15:05:00.000+01:002008-08-27T15:05:00.000+01:00The biscuit is most definitely called Zwieback in ...The biscuit is most definitely called <I>Zwieback</I> in German and yes, we say it with an "ee". <BR/><BR/>It is babyfood here, too, but also eaten when you've upset your stomach. Nowadays you can also get them chocolate-covered or with desiccated coconut. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.germandeli.com/4000233001122.html" REL="nofollow">This</A> is the best-known German brand but there is also a regional variety which is slightly different.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-63187338495936648202008-08-27T12:54:00.000+01:002008-08-27T12:54:00.000+01:00According to grimm, it's Zwieback, but they say th...According to grimm, it's Zwieback, but they say that a Zweiback/Zwieback alternation existed in earlier forms.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7639202284951308412008-08-27T11:46:00.000+01:002008-08-27T11:46:00.000+01:00Going back to the very first comment from zhoen: d...Going back to the very first comment from zhoen: digestives in the UK are a very different type of biccie - definitely for adults. They can be packed with sugar, also a lot of fibre - reaching their apogee in the HobNob which is a sort of homespun version. Less sugary brands of digestives are excellent when eaten with blue cheese or even a mature cheddar (try it!): the more sugary kind (including HobNobs) are also available half-coated with chocolate; plain or milk varieties.<BR/>Digestives are used, mashed up with butter, as the base for a non-cooked cheesecake (would it be Graham crackers in the US?) and we successfully used small chocolate digestives as the outer layers, with toasted marshmallows, of our UK versions of the campfire favourite... called s'more'ums I believe. Definitely yummy but very incorrect in terms of calories, sugar, fat etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-41268490248318899962008-08-27T10:03:00.000+01:002008-08-27T10:03:00.000+01:00I think it is still called Bearnaise sauce in the ...I think it is still called Bearnaise sauce in the UK, only perhaps without the accent. Croutons are croutons, but I'm not sure what sippets are.<BR/><BR/>As for Melba toast, that's something different again - I didn't know one could buy it; I always make my own.<BR/><BR/>I have just had a thought, though - in French, "biscottes" are also a type of rusk - a pre-toasted white bread which is much nicer than it sounds, although apt to explode in a shower of crumbs. You can find them in this country, usually alongside the oatcakes and other cheese biscuits (I mean, biscuits for cheese - I suppose crackers in AmE?). Quite different from what I know as biscotti!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52210168341154702382008-08-26T23:51:00.000+01:002008-08-26T23:51:00.000+01:00@mrs redboots. >for me, it's just wrong, pl...@mrs redboots. <BR/>>for me, it's just wrong, plain wrong, not to pronounce it "zweeback" cookies<<BR/><BR/>But isn't zwieback a misspelling of zweiback? If so, are we not changing a German word to something that doesn't exist, and then re-applying German pronunciation to our new anglicised word?<BR/><BR/>I know that 'zwie' does exist in German, as in zwielicht, but AFAIK there's no such thing as zwieback. (I could be wrong. My German is Nordrhein-Westfalen Plattdeutsch, but I've come across quite a few unexpected Bavarian, Austrian, and Swiss variations.)<BR/><BR/>In English, esp. AmE, we do tend to create our own versions of other languages, and later imbue them with authority. E.g. Bernaise Sauce. I can find no reason for changing Béarnaise to Bernaise other than laziness; yet it prvails. But the sauce comes from the French province of Béarn, not the Swiss city of Berne.<BR/><BR/>And BTW, since the discussion is about various incarnations of rusks, how about sippets and croûtons.Trinovante39https://www.blogger.com/profile/02097649637045322001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-45648255160591059402008-08-26T23:09:00.000+01:002008-08-26T23:09:00.000+01:00Aha! they're for teething! I always wondered why a...Aha! they're for teething! I always wondered why anyone would buy such bland and boring bread products. <BR/><BR/>Now, where does "melba toast" fit in to this discussion? In American supermarkets it's shelved right next to the zweiback. I've never been able to distinguish between them (but then, I've never really made an effort).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-5291201839695876512008-08-26T15:56:00.000+01:002008-08-26T15:56:00.000+01:00No - in German, "ie" is always pronounced "ee" (fo...No - in German, "ie" is always pronounced "ee" (for me, it's just wrong, plain wrong, not to pronounce it "zweeback" cookies!), and "ei" is always pronounced "eye". As in a stein of beer (pronounced Shtine in German.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34633978926361040442008-08-26T11:46:00.000+01:002008-08-26T11:46:00.000+01:00Even though (or rather because) the letters are tr...Even though (or rather because) the letters are transposed, surely it's pronounced "tsvee..." in German.Ginger Yellowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06103410278129312943noreply@blogger.com