tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post6628035605702875105..comments2024-03-28T16:11:36.465+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: black()currantslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger106125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66178131011522123412017-08-05T03:13:40.427+01:002017-08-05T03:13:40.427+01:00New Haven is a total shibboleth for Connecticutian...New Haven is a total shibboleth for Connecticutians. While I generally try not to be a prescriptivist, it's our city, and everyone else is saying it wrong. It's New HAVen.CChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09668474441900682619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-48438168752930578182017-01-16T19:12:56.308+00:002017-01-16T19:12:56.308+00:00Well, in the case of Newcastle (one word), the ori...Well, in the case of Newcastle (one word), the original is a city in the north-east of England, but understand that it was new about a thousand years ago. Plenty time for the adjective "new" to sink into the name and lose its value as a descriptor. It's pronounced nyerCASSel by us locals.JohnUKnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-18518633496511168952016-11-18T13:41:22.806+00:002016-11-18T13:41:22.806+00:00Also available are chilli marmalade and bacon marm...Also available are chilli marmalade and bacon marmalade, also called jam in both cases. Bacon jam is essentially onion marmalade with the headline ingredient added.<br /><br />I love ginger marmalade! It is made not from stem but root ginger, which is so strong that very little is needed. Sainsbury's, which calls it ginger 'preserve' and describes it as a jam, has just 19% ginger (and no other fruit or fruit juice), compared to 30-40% orange for marmalade and anything upward of that for other fruit jams and preserves. I have definitely bought ginger marmalade in the past; maybe not after the 1981 diktat mentioned in David's next comment. I have always accepted it as a marmalade because its tang makes it closer to breakfast marmalade than to the sweet jams served at teatime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72137156393472884192016-11-18T12:12:07.499+00:002016-11-18T12:12:07.499+00:00Forgot to specify that those were British recipes....Forgot to specify that those were British recipes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76755951312748801412016-11-18T12:11:13.387+00:002016-11-18T12:11:13.387+00:00I still have some of my mother's (born 1922) r...I still have some of my mother's (born 1922) recipes cut from magazines that specify a breakfast cup or a teacup of flour etc. I just guess that people drank more tea at breakfast than at other times.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3140095684224558382016-10-24T21:53:38.115+01:002016-10-24T21:53:38.115+01:00I think this is right, my Grandmother from Suffolk...I think this is right, my Grandmother from Suffolk, was too poor to own scales so she baked using a teacup for measuring. Hilltophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12744481968971493234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35154275723645034422016-10-24T21:51:33.633+01:002016-10-24T21:51:33.633+01:00The jelly version of jam in BrE is where it is cle...The jelly version of jam in BrE is where it is clear with no bits of the fruit.Hilltophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12744481968971493234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80120575189666075442016-10-24T21:49:45.647+01:002016-10-24T21:49:45.647+01:00My Father in Law ate sausages with marmalade, but ...My Father in Law ate sausages with marmalade, but that was a criticism of the bread content of the sausages he ate at boarding school.Hilltophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12744481968971493234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4897701815956378822016-10-19T02:39:27.141+01:002016-10-19T02:39:27.141+01:00Saw a jar of Black Currant jam at Safeway in Washi...Saw a jar of Black Currant jam at Safeway in Washington, DC this week. It was Hero brand which I think is Swiss and it was definitely two words. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-792415874181961862016-10-14T00:36:23.680+01:002016-10-14T00:36:23.680+01:00See my retraction below dated 20 September.See my retraction below dated 20 September.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7632930946118901002016-10-13T21:21:55.395+01:002016-10-13T21:21:55.395+01:00As a rule of thumb, a US cup is roughly 250 ml, wh...As a rule of thumb, a US cup is roughly 250 ml, which helps.Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27751073045960951542016-10-13T21:20:46.778+01:002016-10-13T21:20:46.778+01:00My kitchen scales will discount the weight of any ...My kitchen scales will discount the weight of any container, from a saucepan to a saucer, so you can weigh things as you are going to use them.... and put them in the dishwasher afterwards! To get back to topic, something delicious to make with red- and blackcurrants is summer pudding.....Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-43596002675048729732016-10-13T21:15:36.333+01:002016-10-13T21:15:36.333+01:00NOOOO, David Crosbie, you do NOT make redcurrant j...NOOOO, David Crosbie, you do NOT make redcurrant jelly with gelatine, any more than jam is made with it. "Jelly" in this context is made similarly to jam, but the fruit is boiled up first with no sugar and then strained through muslin overnight before the resulting juice is measured, and sugar added in judicious proportion. After this, it is made exactly like jam. Redcurrant jelly is a classic with lamb, but blackberry-and-apple is as nice....Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78306343878631111802016-10-11T19:45:21.193+01:002016-10-11T19:45:21.193+01:00I think saying "white currants are from redcu...I think saying "white currants are from redcurrant bushes" is a bit of a stretch. Red- and whitecurrants may be more closely related to each other than to blackcurrants, but no matter how long you leave a whitecurrant on the bush it won't turn red, or vice versa.<br /><br />The bushes are, however, similar enough when not fruiting that garden centres may sell you the wrong plant by mistake. Wikipedia tells me the whitecurrant is actually an "albino cultivar" of the redcurrant, but I don't plan on calling them "white redcurrants" any time soon.Rowan Tomminshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11501625256059457499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26405936391750952202016-10-07T13:38:30.311+01:002016-10-07T13:38:30.311+01:00Technical
This is not a reply to myself on the et...Technical<br /><br />This is not a reply to myself on the etymology of <i>marmalade</i>. It's a test to see where its notification comes from my old subscription or my new one.<br /><br />[Posted through <b>Reply</b>]David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40218175195077779912016-10-07T13:25:06.741+01:002016-10-07T13:25:06.741+01:00Technical
This has nothing to do with blackcurran...Technical<br /><br />This has nothing to do with blackcurrants. It's a test to see where its notification comes from: my old subscription or my new one.<br /><br />[Posted through <b>Add a comment</b>]David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-1954646396191998782016-10-02T10:32:00.218+01:002016-10-02T10:32:00.218+01:00I love rhubarb and ginger jam, despite not liking ...I love rhubarb and ginger jam, despite not liking rhubarb as a dessert. The ginger hides the taste of the rhubarb and the rhubarb gives the jam body.<br /><br />Not quite kippers and marmalade, but last year I was staying in an hotel in Spokane, WA. If you ordered the American breakfast in the restaurant, it came with two identical white porcelain pots. One contained strawberry jam and the other tomato ketchup. They were identical shades of red. If you looked very carefully, you could just about make out the shape of a strawberry in one of them.Paul Dormerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611343972547300193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-82270477710826544682016-10-02T01:11:52.508+01:002016-10-02T01:11:52.508+01:00The true etymology as outlined in the OED seems be...The true etymology as outlined in the OED seems beyond doubt. <br /><br />Ancient Greek had the words <br />• μῆλον (mēlon) 'apple or similar fruit'<br />• μέλι (meli) 'honey<br /><br />Hellenistic Greek compounded them variously<br />• μηλόμελι (mēlomeli) 'variety of sweet apple'<br />• μελίμηλον (melimēlon) 'summer apple' or 'apple grafted onto quince'<br /><br />Classical Latin used the Greek words to form<br />• <i>mēlomeli</i> 'honey flavoured with quinces'<br />• <i>melimēla</i> Latinised plural form of the 'summer apple' Greek word<br /><br />Post-classical Latin<br />• <i>malomellum</i> 'quince' or 'sweet apple'<br /><br />Portuguese<br />• <i>marmelo</i> 'quince'<br />• <i> marmelada</i> 'quince marmalade'David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68783131422540371172016-10-01T09:55:36.060+01:002016-10-01T09:55:36.060+01:00I've heard it alleged that marmalade got its n...I've heard it alleged that marmalade got its name because it was used to mitigate sea sickness!<br /><br />Quince jam is sharp like marmalade and so goes well for breakfast.<br /><br />I've never heard of ginger marmalade, but ginger does of course go very well with rhubarb as a jam.<br /><br />I'm sure you can't cook kippers in marmalade as a substitute for butter, but it might work on the side of ones plate once they are cooked. Marmalade goes well with sausages used that way.Drunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12615932595917596662016-09-30T16:09:29.379+01:002016-09-30T16:09:29.379+01:00A character in Anthony Burgess's Earthly Power...A character in Anthony Burgess's Earthly Powers gives a delightful cod etymology for marmalade.<br /><br />It appears Mary, Queen of Scots had a French cook. Whenever she had a stomach upset, she found that having her favourite dish of stewed quinces settled things. So, whenever this happened, her servant would tell the cook, "Marie est malade."Paul Dormerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611343972547300193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83444142517234485782016-09-30T13:59:08.231+01:002016-09-30T13:59:08.231+01:00The OED definition of marmaladeis historically tho...The OED definition of <i>marmalade</i>is historically thorough and, in this case, recently updated<br /><br />1 a. Originally: †a preserve consisting of a sweet, solid, quince jelly resembling chare de quince (see CHARE <i>n.4</i>) but with the spices replaced by flavourings of rose water and musk or ambergris, and cut into squares for eating; (in the 17th cent., occas.) a thick, apple-based jelly containing shredded citrus peel (<i> obs</i>.). Subsequently: a conserve made by boiling fruits (now usually oranges and other citrus fruits) in water to release the pectin around the seeds, then reboiling the liquid and fruit with sugar to form a consistent mass, typically containing embedded shreds of rind. Also: a preparation of similar consistency made with other ingredients, such as a sweet preserve of diced ginger in a jelly set with apple pectin, or a relish made by cooking vegetables with sugar and vinegar.<br /><br />FOOTNOTES IN SMALLER TYPE<br />Often with the name of the fruit or other dominant ingredient prefixed, as<i> apricot, ginger, lemon, onion, orange, quince marmalade </i>. When none is specified, orange marmalade is now usually meant; this may then be prefixed by a word denoting the style or type of orange marmalade, as<i> diabetic, Dundee, Scotch marmalade. Oxford marmalade</i>: see OXFORD <i>n. 1a.</i><br /> <br />Since 1981, European Community regulations have restricted commercial use of the term to preserves made with citrus fruit.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64088771520927368292016-09-30T13:33:06.172+01:002016-09-30T13:33:06.172+01:00Rachel, that raises the question of what we mean b...Rachel, that raises the question of what we mean by <i>juice.</i><br /><br />For me, juice is the liquid extracted from <b>uncooked</b> fruit. I don't think the sort of <i>jellies</i> we're talking about use that sort of liquid. Surely the trick is to extract as much flavour from the fruit by boiling/stewing it, and then to strain off a clear liquid.<br /><br />I've never encountered ginger marmalade —— although it's easy to imagine what it would be like. Think stem ginger in syrup and add gelatine. Actually, it would be easier to make a ginger-flavoured citrus marmalade and substitute shreds of stem ginger for the the peel.<br /><br />Strangely, the only non-citrus <i>marmalade</i> that seems to be at all popular is <b>onion marmalade</b>.<br /><br />Quince marmalade is, I think, no more. But quince makes a delicious spreadable when turned into Russian <i>varenye </i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10805527350132342682016-09-29T12:49:04.315+01:002016-09-29T12:49:04.315+01:00My division between jellies, jams and marmalades (...My division between jellies, jams and marmalades (that come in jars) is that jellies are the set juice. There are stiff jellies which are a component of puddings, and spreadable jellies, such as redcurrant jelly. But I think they are pretty nearly only made from redcurrant and blackcurrants because normal soft fruit jams use the fruit rather than the juice. Marmalades are generally made from citrus fruit peel. I put generally because I have a memory of giner marmalade, but this may be totally wrong.<br /><br />Preserrves, in my mind, would be solid fruit rather then fruit suspended in a sugar/water/juice mix.Rachel Ganzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512329333010333925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58130532098439326542016-09-29T12:32:10.357+01:002016-09-29T12:32:10.357+01:00Marmalade was, I believe, originally more a paste ...Marmalade was, I believe, originally more a <b>paste</b> the what we'd call a <i>jam</i> , and made with quinces rather than Seville oranges.<br /><br />What happened in Britain is that the Seville orange version became an industrial product in the nineteenth century and clever marketing fixed it in our heads and our hearts as an essential component of<b> breakfast</b>. This, I believe, puts it in a different mental category to <i>jams</i>, which are firmly associated with afternoon <b> tea</b>.<br /><br />The initial marketing was a little odd. My grandfather told a joke that must have been old when he was a boy. Marmalade was being promoted as a delicious alternative to butter, and a woman wrote to Keillors of Dundee to complain of the result when she fried her kippers in it.<br /><br />Nowadays there's a range of products made from different citrus fruits. Some resemble jams but others are more like jellies, or something close to pastes. And the jam-like ones vary in thickness. The only features that unite them are the fact that they're made of citrus and — in almost every case — the inclusion of cooked peel.<br /><br />The word <i>orange</i> is famously a mishearing of <i>a norange</i>, and the <i>naranja</i> that we originally encountered from Spain was presumably the bitter fruit we now call a <i>Seville orange</i>, which is pretty well inedible unless shredded boiled with sugar and water. When we lived in Egypt, we learned two words: <i>naring</i> for Seville orange and <i>burtu'an</i> (derived from 'Portuguese') for sweet oranges.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26210153490943699782016-09-29T09:33:57.535+01:002016-09-29T09:33:57.535+01:00Reminds me of an essay I read by the Dutch physici...Reminds me of an essay I read by the Dutch physicist Hendrik Casimir, actually part of a speech about the difference between science and technology.<br /><br />He claimed that he was at breakfast in an hotel in Istanbul and overheard an English lady asking the waiter for marmalade. She was brought a tray of fruit preserves which she dismissed. "Oh, no, those are jam, not marmalade." This amused Casimir, because to a Dutchman, marmalade was a type of jam. It's made by boiling crushed or cut up fruit with sugar. An Englishman will explain jam and marmalade are totally different things.Paul Dormerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611343972547300193noreply@blogger.com