tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post6761116535187096803..comments2024-03-28T16:11:36.465+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: haste makes waste / more haste, less speedlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71855137414297032402012-01-17T10:43:30.212+00:002012-01-17T10:43:30.212+00:00Anonymous: It's not really a command, more a &...Anonymous: It's not really a command, more a "piece of folk wisdom" and -- more often than not -- a rueful reflection on events. To give you an example of this that I heard just this morning: the man in front of me at the car park was trying to insert his coins into the ticket machine as quickly as he could, but ended up dropping all his change on the floor while only halfway through the transaction. As he bent down to pick up the scattered coins he sighed and said "More haste, less speed".<br /><br />djw: Yes, "A stitch in time..." is well known in BrE too -- although its meaning is "Deal with it now before it becomes a much bigger job later" rather than "Trying to rush things now will only make more work later". <br /><br />It's a characteristic of proverbs, I think, the way they so often negate, even sometimes flatly contradict, each other: "Many hands make light work" v. "Too many cooks spoil the broth"; "Look before you leap" v. "He who hesitates is lost".Kevinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15790067918593816022012-01-16T14:49:59.859+00:002012-01-16T14:49:59.859+00:00Are you Brits familiar with and do you use the pro...Are you Brits familiar with and do you use the proverb 'A stitch in time saves nine'? Maybe this is a phrase we can all rally behind.djweaverbeaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01296480866583272802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46509287909299146212012-01-15T15:42:35.509+00:002012-01-15T15:42:35.509+00:00Anonymous: See my comment of a week ago. My grandm...Anonymous: See my comment of a week ago. My grandmother was not Pennsylvania Dutch, but my grandfather was.Øhttp://voidplay.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51370266290485266822012-01-13T18:42:51.214+00:002012-01-13T18:42:51.214+00:00Argh, posted too fast and forgot to point out that...Argh, posted too fast and forgot to point out that this phrase is considered to be local (Pennsylvania Dutch) in origin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36972396968000266082012-01-13T18:39:27.537+00:002012-01-13T18:39:27.537+00:00I've never heard of "more haste, less spe...I've never heard of "more haste, less speed," and in fact it came across to me as a nonsensical command to go faster, but slower.<br /><br />Here in South Central PA, we have a (somewhat) related phrase: "The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15413871015105645342012-01-12T23:01:12.598+00:002012-01-12T23:01:12.598+00:00Kevin: That would be "senior citizen discount...Kevin: That would be "senior citizen discount", I think. The old in the U.S. get no more than the rest of us for nothing at all, but many things at a reduced price. As for whether something is or is not British English, there are three questions to ask: (a) is it commonly used in Britain today? (b) is it used by a minority in Britain today? (c) was it first used in Britain? Lynneguist is saying that <i>haste makes waste</i> is (b) and (c), though not (a).<br /><br />Amanda: To save Lynne's time: the article you link to is the usual ignorant and preposterous rubbish spewed out by someone who doesn't know and doesn't care about the difference between his own prejudices and the way in which the English language is spoken in various places. I read only a few of the comments, but most of them are no better. Don't waste a single second of your precious time on it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, to be sure, but not to their own facts.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9473945601202737672012-01-11T22:57:45.692+00:002012-01-11T22:57:45.692+00:00Scripsit Lynne: I didn't say many British peop...Scripsit Lynne: <i>I didn't say many British people say it, though. I said it is 'not unknown'. This doesn't mean that you know it, it only means that someone does--since there's certainly available evidence of that!</i><br /><br />That's a fair enough point, L. It's just that sometimes I feel as if I'm part of a "hidden majority" when I'm told that something I never say -- and have never even HEARD anyone in my country say -- is a part of my country's language. It is, after all, very easy to demonstrate that someONE uses all kinds of foreign phrases in their English -- I don't think these corpora specifically filter out foreign-born or foreign-aping speakers/writers, do they? -- but how many "someONEs" do there have to be before their contribution is truly significant?<br /><br />All the same: sorry if I over-reacted!Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51590001173075028652012-01-11T21:38:43.619+00:002012-01-11T21:38:43.619+00:00Sorry, my first comment was to your first comment,...Sorry, my first comment was to your first comment, Kevin. We seem to have been typing at the same time!<br /><br />I don't think I have done 'red state'/'blue state', but 'red' itself also means 'communist in US, most often heard (in my experience) in 'better dead than red'.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46182991826056173062012-01-11T21:33:46.790+00:002012-01-11T21:33:46.790+00:00I didn't say many British people say it, thoug...I didn't say many British people say it, though. I said it is 'not unknown'. This doesn't mean that you know it, it only means that someone does--since there's certainly available evidence of that!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26188656286177549602012-01-11T21:32:26.005+00:002012-01-11T21:32:26.005+00:00Mrs Redboots:
>> ice-skating coaches tell o...Mrs Redboots:<br /><br />>> <i>ice-skating coaches tell one not to rush, not to rush "You're not Russian!"....</i><br /><br />Reminds me of the old, cold-war era riddle: "Q. Why are fire engines [AmE: fire trucks] painted red? / A. Because they're always rushin'"<br /><br />And <b>that</b> reminds me in turn of the paradox whereby in Europe "red" means "left-wing/socialist/ communist", whilst it seems that in the USA "red" stands for the (right-wing) Republican Party. (I expect, though, that you must have dealt with this already, Lynne.)Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40601364185380229092012-01-11T21:16:18.810+00:002012-01-11T21:16:18.810+00:00Yet another interesting case of your saying, Lynne...Yet another interesting case of your saying, Lynne, that a phrase (in this case, "haste makes waste") does exist in UK English, and yet this (free-bus-pass* holding) UK citizen had never heard of it before your post!<br /><br />"More haste, less speed", on the other hand, is a saying that I can remember being in common usage amongst all ages even when I was still in primary school (i.e. well over half a century ago), and I've never had any feeling that it was no longer understood.<br /><br />* I wonder: is there an American-English equivalent of the attribute "free bus pass" as an indicator of an individual's age of three score years and counting? :-)Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10718209592445394736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58054664693491366262012-01-11T14:49:07.444+00:002012-01-11T14:49:07.444+00:00I know you're really busy, but someone shared ...I know you're really busy, but someone shared the following blog post and I would like to read your take on it - http://www.primermagazine.com/2008/learn/10-words-you-mispronounce-that-make-people-think-youre-an-idiotCosmic Sirenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15360375868447564020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73636691352240200842012-01-11T12:56:31.716+00:002012-01-11T12:56:31.716+00:00As I translator I always think of how I would say ...As I translator I always think of how I would say it in my mother tongue. So here's a literary translation of it: The hasty queen made blind kittens. In the sence that if you do things quickly, you get poor results. No reference to wasting time though.queenliviahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06612342760278424780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33429729546925350112012-01-11T01:05:01.893+00:002012-01-11T01:05:01.893+00:00Also related is:
"Slow is smooth. Smooth is ...Also related is:<br /><br />"Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast."<br /><br />This usually seems to be associated with a military context or a shooting context.<br /><br />I don't know whether it's more common in one dialect (other than military).Doug Sundsethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01848091504066560951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83960705262149772642012-01-10T12:19:57.072+00:002012-01-10T12:19:57.072+00:00Amanda P
Make haste slowly
Closer than the othe...Amanda P<br /><br /><i> Make haste slowly</i><br /><br />Closer than the other two expressions to the Latin <i>festina lente</i> which seems to be the origin of all three.<br /><br /> According to <i>Wikipedia</i> it was in turn a translation from Greek, but it's the Latin phrase that's (relatively) widely known.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32527435251015571862012-01-09T19:11:18.039+00:002012-01-09T19:11:18.039+00:00I don't know why it sticks in my head, but the...I don't know why it sticks in my head, but the phrase More haste, Less speed pops up in the 1932 Hollywood movie "Jewel Robbery" in which a hairdresser refuses to be hurried by Kay Francis' character.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-33015565711244739632012-01-09T18:33:44.095+00:002012-01-09T18:33:44.095+00:00I (AmE) have never heard 'more haste, less spe...I (AmE) have never heard 'more haste, less speed", but I have heard and used "Make haste slowly", which always seemed to me to mean "be quick, but be careful, so you don't have to re-do it".<br /><br />Haste makes waste, on the other hand, is a fairly common phrase in my experience.Amanda P.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8493614075896067992012-01-09T02:03:50.786+00:002012-01-09T02:03:50.786+00:00Speed the plough
After posting, I remembered the ...<i>Speed the plough</i><br /><br />After posting, I remembered the David Mamet play <b>Speed-the-Plow</b> and looked it up on <i>Wikipedia</i>. The story is that Mamet's source for the expression (an inscription on some old plates and mugs) was probably based ultimately on a rhyme for <b>Plough Monday</b> — which coincidentally is today, Monday 9 January 2012, the Monday after Epiphany.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68901350835079764732012-01-09T01:15:43.182+00:002012-01-09T01:15:43.182+00:00My grandmother had a little wooden plaque hanging ...My grandmother had a little wooden plaque hanging on the wall reading "The hurrider I go the behinder I get." When I google this expression I find websites where people have written "My grandmother had a little wooden plaque hanging on the wall reading 'The hurrider I go the behinder I get.'"<br /><br />Also, "Marry in haste, repent at leisure."Øhttp://voidplay.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-37883847344076082082012-01-08T16:47:27.093+00:002012-01-08T16:47:27.093+00:00And ice-skating coaches tell one not to rush, not ...And ice-skating coaches tell one not to rush, not to rush "You're not Russian!".... same principle.<br /><br />And I have just had to throw away a batch of home-made soap which was ruined as I tried to make it too quickly. "More haste less speed" is often the story of my life.... and my husband's, as he is dreadfully prone to rushing!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-48270676846250595472012-01-08T15:38:31.160+00:002012-01-08T15:38:31.160+00:00The late and much-renowned American basketball coa...The late and much-renowned American basketball coach, teacher, and philosopher John Wooden was fond of telling his players, "Be quick—but don't hurry!"Steve Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14890097586211634385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35578482002602258262012-01-08T14:30:04.646+00:002012-01-08T14:30:04.646+00:00Kerry
I wasn't denying the older senses or sp...Kerry<br /><br />I wasn't denying the older senses or <i>speed</i> — it's just that they don't affect my response to the word as used today.<br /><br />An example to add to your list is the expression <i>Speed the plough</i>, which was attached to songs and tunes in the folk tradition. Until now I never actually analysed what it meant because it doesn't really matter — beyond, of course, being a wish for something desirable. I suppose the same goes for <i>God speed!</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11612070944746536822012-01-08T14:21:18.727+00:002012-01-08T14:21:18.727+00:00Mollymoody
For me in all the haste words, the foc...Mollymoody<br /><br />For me in all the <i>haste</i> words, the focus is on being quick to <b>get started</b>.<br /><br />• With <i>hasty</i> that's a negative thing. <br /><br />• With <i>make haste</i> and <i>hasten</i> it's positive. I could substitute <i>Be quick!</i>, but not <i>Be speedy!</i>.<br /><br />The <i>haste</i> words also seem all to have connotations of <b>effort</b> — which I don't feel in <i>speed</i> words. This would support the American <i>haste~waste</i> association.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59257756667341631582012-01-08T14:05:27.759+00:002012-01-08T14:05:27.759+00:00David,
Of course, your interpretation of the sayi...David,<br /><br />Of course, your interpretation of the saying is a perfectly valid one. My comment that 'haste' and 'speed' mean similar things was perhaps not very well expressed, I meant in comparison to the 19th century and the alternative meaning I then offered.<br />I mis-typed 'spide' earlier, which does have the alternative meaning of 'success' and the interpretation of the saying then being 'more haste, less success' is one that also makes sense to me in terms of its use. <br />I have found an entry in the OED which says (and I'm going to have to abbreviate):<br />'Speed 3. Success, prosperity; good fortune, profit, advancement, furtherance<br />b. With adjs as good, evil etc: Success, fortune, lot<br /><br />1809 MALKIN Gil Blas, v.i p21 You give way to difficulties with more haste than good speed'<br /><br />Apologies - there may be typing errors in that but the dictionary has such small text it comes with a magnifying glass and even that isn't always sufficient.Kerry O'Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08811808188815458653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38607254900944635702012-01-08T13:51:56.246+00:002012-01-08T13:51:56.246+00:00@David Crosbie: "Haste" has negative con...@David Crosbie: "Haste" has negative connotations in "hasty", but not in "hasten" or "make haste".mollymoolynoreply@blogger.com