tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post7006782996076052748..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: stammering and stutteringlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55436717232808442522020-07-09T21:07:29.300+01:002020-07-09T21:07:29.300+01:00I suspect those who argue the two words mean diffe...I suspect those who argue the two words mean different things are likely not Speech – Language Pathologists. I think it’s perfectly fine for them to use different meanings - as long as they realize they’re using the words in a different way than the professionals who actually treat people with this speech disorder. <br /><br />As a Speech – Language Pathology grad student in LA, it’s a distinction without a difference. The two words mean the same thing in my field, “Stutter“ is the preferred term in the US — as is “stammer“ in the UK. If I were speaking to a British SLP, who said “stammer,“ and I said “stutter,“ we would understand each other perfectly.Sallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07542078679468712108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89913073149214306532017-06-07T18:40:03.570+01:002017-06-07T18:40:03.570+01:00I live in the Midwest USA. The speech phenomenon k...I live in the Midwest USA. The speech phenomenon known here as "stuttering" is uncommon and the word "stammer" is never used. The most prevalent form of speech dysfunction around here I would say is mumbling. However, when I listen to British radio talk shows, in-studio as well as call-in guests stutter like mad. I find it so frustrating to listen to that I often turn it off. This has led me to ask why do the British stutter so much? There appears to be some denial concerning this. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16767916429843974602017-02-15T14:36:18.854+00:002017-02-15T14:36:18.854+00:00Born in London in 1944, I was told I had a stutter...Born in London in 1944, I was told I had a stutter, not a stammer. I remember being aware of both words and assuming there had to be a difference between them, but I didn't know what it might be.<br /><br />Interestingly, <a href="http://www.stammering.org/speaking-out/article/let-me-speak" rel="nofollow">in a 2006 article</a> the author David Mitchell states he became aware of his stammer when he was 7 or 8, and continues to stammer as an adult. I assume he finds it helpful to distinguish between part-word repetition (his stuttering) and blocking (his stammering). If it is useful for him then he is not wrong, but he is overstating the case when claiming that the difference is universally valid.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7636426259285959892016-06-15T21:13:56.852+01:002016-06-15T21:13:56.852+01:00Plain as day! Thanks a lot Dr Lynne Murphy!
Plain as day! Thanks a lot Dr Lynne Murphy!<br />plebt2011https://www.blogger.com/profile/12110381954401979004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35393666264560854382011-02-04T16:25:31.583+00:002011-02-04T16:25:31.583+00:00"The US National Stuttering Association seems..."<i>The US National Stuttering Association seems to be silent on the matter.</i>"<br />Could it be they couldn't get their words out?<br /><br />Sorry, I'll get my coat...AndyJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-29989433039952926202011-02-04T10:29:38.441+00:002011-02-04T10:29:38.441+00:00BrE stammer = AmE stutter? But there's local d...BrE stammer = AmE stutter? But there's local dialects and preferences to take into account. My parents originate from North Midlands UK, and in our family we've always used the word stutter, not stammer, and with no awareness that there was a difference in meaning.Sean Skiptonhttp://www.selectaskip.co.uk/skip-hire-in-staffordnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68306695430954519772011-02-02T16:29:32.362+00:002011-02-02T16:29:32.362+00:00A link to some explanation of what a Ngram is and ...A link to some explanation of what a Ngram is and does might be helpful here.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60580002098428793032011-02-02T00:59:58.852+00:002011-02-02T00:59:58.852+00:00@Layah: didn't I cover that in the paragraph w...@Layah: didn't I cover that in the paragraph where I said:<br /><br />"The BrE Ngram is unsurprising: it shows just <i>has a stammer</i>."<br /><br />(There's a link to the Ngram when you read it in the context of the post.)lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56834673015444597482011-02-01T22:57:45.522+00:002011-02-01T22:57:45.522+00:00He has a stammer sound fine to this British speake...<i>He has a stammer</i> sound fine to this British speaker. But I'd find it even more familiar to hear <i>He has a terrible stammer</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72764494417408106952011-02-01T21:27:38.100+00:002011-02-01T21:27:38.100+00:00You explained that BrE stammer = AmE stutter, but ...You explained that BrE stammer = AmE stutter, but does BrE stutter = AmE stammer? In my AmE dialect stutter can be a verb ("He stuttered over the word") or a noun ("He has a stutter") but stammer is only a verb, it can not be a noun, so "having a stammer" sounds very wrong to me. Is it the same in BrE for stutter?Layahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77037916727220341202011-02-01T17:31:54.912+00:002011-02-01T17:31:54.912+00:00Definitions aside, I think one of the strengths of...Definitions aside, I think one of the strengths of The King's Speech is that it covers the many overlappings of language: the mechanical, the emotional, the social....<br /><br />I loved that movie. No car crashes, no guns, and still got an audience.Shelleyhttp://dustbowlpoetry.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90586460294308578952011-02-01T00:22:37.871+00:002011-02-01T00:22:37.871+00:00I was interested to see the increase in the use of...I was interested to see the increase in the use of "stutter" in BrE in the 1980s. It reminded me of the 1988 UK novelty hit "stutter rap".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67312942860813968462011-01-31T20:24:24.259+00:002011-01-31T20:24:24.259+00:00"stutter" has transf. and fig. uses, e.g..."stutter" has transf. and fig. uses, e.g. of a car engine. "stammer" doesn't -- or at least, not nearly as readily.mollymoolynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86668374077794263752011-01-31T13:28:12.203+00:002011-01-31T13:28:12.203+00:00people look for a distinction because different wo...<i>people look for a distinction because different words exist</i><br /><br />But <b>why</b> do they exist?<br /><br />The OED feels the need to justify the recent appearance of <b>stutter</b>:<br /><br /><i>The late date of the appearance of the word in English is remarkable; possibly the frequentative formation was suggested by the Dutch form.</i><br /><br />Before that we had <b>stut</b>, of which <b>stutter</b> is <i>the frequentive formation</i>. But even this seems to be an innovation in Middle English, when we already had <b>stammer</b> from Old English.<br /><br />OK, there's a reference to cuckoos <b>stammering</b> in the south and <b>stutting</b> in the north. But other quotes — one of them as early as 1500 — use both words in the same phrase.<br /><br />It looks as if <b>stut</b> had its meaning transferred in part to be (at the very least) a stylistic variant of <b>stammer</b>. But why?<br /><br />I've just been listening to a David Crystal podcast citing stylistic variant sets like <b>kingly, royal, regal</b>. One can see why English welcomed the latter two, and why we assigned distinctions to the differences. But reinterpreting <b>stut</b> seems pretty pointless — unless there was some distinction waiting to be realised by a difference.<br /><br />[This is not an attack — just a question to which I can't see an answer, but I hope you might.]David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73490476002917050412011-01-31T12:16:46.072+00:002011-01-31T12:16:46.072+00:00Martin J
What you say is interesting, and I would...Martin J<br /><br />What you say is interesting, and I wouldn't dispute it for a moment. Nevertheless, I still see Ronnie Barker's Arkwright as <i>realistic</i> in the sense of 'believable' — giving an <b>illusion</b> of reality. Nobody could say that of <i>The Stuttering Lovers</i>, or of another example I've remembered: Willie Dixon's <i>Nervous</i>.<br /><br />PS I forgot to say I'm British speaker. It may also be relevant that I'm <b>senior</b> British speaker.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-64774190815126406352011-01-31T10:58:46.334+00:002011-01-31T10:58:46.334+00:00I work with voice localisation. One of the items I...I work with voice localisation. One of the items I deal with are network locales, a.k.a. call progress tones, or (more incorrectly) dial tones. One of these is affectionately known as the "stutter dial tone"; a tone that is played to the calling party's receiver when there is unheard voice mail waiting. <br /><br />Initially I'd say that the tone is a true stutter, the audio properties do reflect a human stutter. However, as a USA-centric term "stutter dial" does not localise very well because in several countries the tone' cadence does not stutter, but stammers instead, i.e. there is a longer pause after the first frequenc(y|ies) before playing the next frequency combination.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13667139464173662523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30315499917682259242011-01-31T09:37:52.680+00:002011-01-31T09:37:52.680+00:00@displayname: That was the point I was trying to m...@displayname: That was the point I was trying to make with the mention of languages avoiding synonymy--people look for a distinction because different words exist. But the other points I was trying to make (and perhaps was not explicit enough in doing so are): a) these distinctions do not reflect clinical use of the terms (but people often imply that they do--e.g. 'technically, they're not the same'), b) people from another dialect aren't wrong to call stuttering <i>stammering</i> and vice versa.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36787153789069918982011-01-31T05:11:49.247+00:002011-01-31T05:11:49.247+00:00@displayname
right, these do indeed exist, along w...@displayname<br />right, these do indeed exist, along with other characteristics such as cluttering. However, in speech pathology these are all subsumed under stuttering (US) or stammering (UK). It seems some British speakers have assigned the two words to different characteristics of fluency disorders (I had never heard of this distinction and am a British English speaker now in the US).<br />@David Crosbie<br />Actually, my fluency expert colleagues from Britain tell me that however comic Ronnie Barker's speech was in Open All Hours (and I'm a fan), it wasn't very realistic in terms of being like that of an actual stammerer/stutterer.Martin J Ballnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2398166740601077392011-01-31T04:28:29.625+00:002011-01-31T04:28:29.625+00:00What you seem to have shown (and what you claimed)...What you seem to have shown (and what you claimed) is that BrE stammer = AmE stutter.<br /><br />But this does not mean that BrE stammer = BrE stutter, and it is possible that some people (like David Mitchell) do maintain that distinction in BrE — after all, as Martin said, there <i>do</i> exist two distinct concepts, 'part word repetition' and 'blocking'. Right?displaynamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09068351772472305473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57278116055749395332011-01-31T02:30:16.264+00:002011-01-31T02:30:16.264+00:00I use stutter and stammer with the distinction you...I use stutter and stammer with the distinction you describe — plus one other. A stammer is always an involuntary affliction. A stutter is when you <i><b>don't</b> stop saying it over and over again</i> — either because you <b>can't</b> stop, or for some other reason, generally comic.<br /><br />Of course, such jokes can be unintentionally, or even intentionally cruel. But frequently they are entirely good natured. The stutter is a device allowing the non-stutter to make wild guesses at what the stuttering speaker means. The humour lies in the contrast between guesses and the final revelation of the intended word. The character of the stutterer is not part of the joke. When I was boy, the comedian Al Reed had a stutter routine every week (or so it seemed) on his radio show.<br /><br />Equally good natured are stuttering songs such as <i>The Stuttering Lovers</i> and <i>K-K-K-Katie</i>.<br /><br />A slightly different tack in this exchange form <i>Travesties</i><br /><br />BENNET: He did not vouchsafe his business, sir. He left his card.<br />CARR: 'Tristan Tsara. Dada Dada Dada.' Did he have a stutter?<br /><br />It's not at all necessary for these comic stutters to sound like a genuine affliction.<br /><br />Comic stammers are very different. Only a brilliant comic performer can bring it off —Michael Palin in <i>A Fish Called Wanda</i>, Ronnie Barker in <i>Open All Hours</i>. These stammers are realistic imitations of afflictions that would be truly distressing but for the quality of the comic script and acting.<br /><br />As you demonstrate, the distinction has no clinical basis. But it's one I recognise in my own speech and expectations of the speech of others.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69578838771672299612011-01-31T02:23:40.094+00:002011-01-31T02:23:40.094+00:00I wonder if there is an onomatopoeic aspect to &qu...I wonder if there is an onomatopoeic aspect to "stutter," which would be missing from "stammer." If so, does the former emphasize symptom over stigma? We are in the realm of shear speculation here, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15613045771953497642011-01-31T01:32:42.958+00:002011-01-31T01:32:42.958+00:00A true expert's observation. Thanks, Martin!A true expert's observation. Thanks, Martin!lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58286327326881519632011-01-31T01:30:57.788+00:002011-01-31T01:30:57.788+00:00The novelist David Mitchell's distinction is t...The novelist David Mitchell's distinction is termed 'part word repetitions' versus 'blocking' in the trade. One of my friends, John Tetnowski, is a leading expert in fluency disorders in the US, and confirms that stammering versus stuttering is not used in academic circles in the Mitchell senses!Martin Ballnoreply@blogger.com