tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post738335769156573044..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: sandwiches, more particularly bacon sandwicheslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger136125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-361011894330967402023-04-15T00:08:52.124+01:002023-04-15T00:08:52.124+01:00A sarnie made with two slices of bread and butty m...A sarnie made with two slices of bread and butty made with one slice of bread folded over.BillShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12285501179397724529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16848876823266952172021-12-29T10:19:51.715+00:002021-12-29T10:19:51.715+00:00Is an American hamburger a sandwich? Yes. I'm ...Is an American hamburger a sandwich? Yes. I'm old enough to remember when they were listed on restaurant menus that way. Hamburger Sandwich - 20 cents, with cheese 25 cents. In some places, hamburgers were still served on (or in) sliced (untoasted) bread, in others they were in (or on) a roll or bun that might or might not be what is now called a hamburger bun. Such a sandwich had lettuce and tomato and, optionally, onion and/or pickles. Usually with mayonaise, possibly with mustard or ketchup.<br /><br />Down the street at the drive-in, it still might be called a Hamburger Sandwich on the menu but more likely a Hamburger with its variation, the Cheeseburger. This would be on a hamburger bun with pickles, mustard and ketchup. You had to order a deluxe hamburger to get the lettuce and tomato.<br /><br />The language has changed, just in my lifetime, but in America, a hamburger is still a sandwich. Since BrE evolves faster than American, I suspect that it is the BrE definition that has changed.Joyce Meltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90555445197306380032020-08-27T12:33:13.971+01:002020-08-27T12:33:13.971+01:00BrE (Scot, 60+). Lynne, you have my coblete sympat...BrE (Scot, 60+). Lynne, you have my coblete sympathy. You are experiencing several corollaries of Murphy’s law.<br /> If a waiter/waitress CAN misunderstand your order, they WILL.<br /> If kitchen staff CAN misunderstand waitstaff, they WILL.<br /> If there are 3 possible ways to understand your order, someone will find a fourth.<br /> In the days when I had a bigger appetite, I used to order a bacon sandwich and a sausage sandwich. I would carefully explain that they were both for me, and that I would like them both on the same plate. They nearly always arrived on two separate plates. I think the real problem is that, while the waitstaff understand what you want, they cannot work out how to write down what you wand in a way that the kitchen staff will understand.<br /> I have come across this very phenomenon in this piast. When people talk about a toasty, are they expecting the bread to be toasted on both sides, or just on one side. A lot of commenters have spoken about panini and panini makers. The context implies (to me) that a panini is just another name for a toasted sandwich. Now, in my neck of the woods (Wiltshire) I can buy panino in cafes, and they are a type of toasted sandwich, but always with a particular type of bread (longish rectangular “roll” of Italian-style bread). As I can buy both panini rolls and ciabatta rolls in the same supermarket, I have always taken these to be different.<br />Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71372057165503211742019-07-03T02:14:03.209+01:002019-07-03T02:14:03.209+01:00The best use of bacon in a sandwich is something m...The best use of bacon in a sandwich is something my parents served me when I was a child and I've loved it ever since.<br /><br />Toasted bread with peanut butter and bacon inside. Works the best with peanut butter like Jiff or Peter Pan, etc., that has some added sugar to sweeten it a bit. The slight sweetness of the creamy peanut butter combined with the crunchy saltiness of the bacon is pure heaven.<br /><br />It will change your life. Shall we share a toast to celebrate?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77703073423848586212017-02-26T19:48:46.114+00:002017-02-26T19:48:46.114+00:00Perhaps you're just frequenting the wrong cafe...Perhaps you're just frequenting the wrong cafes! A bacon sandwich made with toast, or rye bread or sourdough or any other kind of bread, roll, bap, baguette or cob you like, with or without butter, sauce, or salad can be ordered at any of several of my local delis, cafes, or bakeries here in the English Midlands. David Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17128294858466975896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-15920309480849542592017-01-25T23:51:07.909+00:002017-01-25T23:51:07.909+00:00Wow! Too many comments to read them all, though I ...Wow! Too many comments to read them all, though I did note that some of them are extremely prescriptive ('the only way', 'the best way') and some are extremely literalist, so I'll just say that for me in London, who has been eating sandwiches for many years, a <i>bacon toastie</i>, should such a thing exist, would be a bacon sandwich, made and then toasted (or often and more tastily buttered on the outside and fried!) while for me a <i>toasted bacon sandwich</i> is a bacon sandwich made with toasted bread (no, literalists, not an untoasted sandwich made with bacon that has been toasted). I have the concept, I even eat the thing, so I have an expression for it, and that expression is 'toasted sandwich', and its existence is to my mind the reason someone invented the word 'toastie'.<br /><br />For the little that it's worth, in a cafe I generally prefer sandwiches with a hot filling to be made with toasted bread, partly because a hot filling will reduce sliced white cafe bread to a greasy thickness of about 1mm, while I like sandwiches with a cold filling to be untoasted. Club sandwiches are an exception and for me are always toasted. BLT - I will take whatever is offered.<br /><br />The things in bags, anything called a <i>toastie</i>, and panini(s- unfortunately; we can manage Latin pairs such as cactus and cacti but stumble at Italian panino and cappuccini) are all assembled first and then toasted, while a <i>toasted [insert filling] sandwich</i> ought to produce either a sandwich made with toasted bread or a request for clarification.<br /><br />The use (polysemic in my lexicon) of <i>on</i>, which like many other Americanisms I have adopted somewhere along the way for its utility, should seldom if ever generate a single slice of toast because the word <i>sandwich</i> requires two. <i>In toast</i> is an abomination; <i>(in) between toast</i> is just silly. If you don't want to use <i>on</i> try <i>with</i>, and if that produces toast and bacon separately take your custom elsewhere. Likewise desert any smart-arse cafe that produces an untoasted sandwich sitting on a piece of toast. And tell all your friends too.<br /><br />All that said, the usual response in a cafe to a sandwich order of the form "A(n) <i>[insert filling]</i> sandwich please" should be a variant of "White or brown?", to which you can reply "White, toasted, please", sidestepping any preposition difficulty. "Any sauce?"KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55194497268720234942017-01-07T14:20:12.594+00:002017-01-07T14:20:12.594+00:00I am from South West England, Bristol to be exact....I am from South West England, Bristol to be exact. Here it is quite common to have a sandwich in a cafe made with toasted bread. If asking for one however I'd probably phrase it along the lines of "please can I have a bacon sandwich, and can the bread please be toasted"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62732268589101925192015-06-24T07:17:04.279+01:002015-06-24T07:17:04.279+01:00I agree with David and Scott P. A sandwich has sli...I agree with David and Scott P. A sandwich has slices of bread as its top and bottom layers, and so has top-bottom symmetry. A burger in a bun isn't a sandwich. I have just had to pretend that this isn't true, in order to solve a captcha which made me tick whichever of the proffered 9 pictures was of sandwiches. None of them were, but I ticked the pics of burgers in buns as being the nearest approach. I passed the test, so /someone/ thinks burgers in buns are sandwiches!<br />Rosienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28491394582930171192015-01-04T16:29:39.997+00:002015-01-04T16:29:39.997+00:00Regarding 'rounds', for toast I would prob...Regarding 'rounds', for toast I would probably say it corresponds to a toaster-full. <br /><br />For sandwiches, I feel like it refers to sandwiches made with two whole slices of bread. Particularly if the sandwich has been cut in half or quarters. I suppose formally, once cut into four, a sandwich becomes four sandwiches, but remains one round of sandwiches. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62049211025136319982014-11-28T08:59:15.462+00:002014-11-28T08:59:15.462+00:00Canadian here - and one who adores bacon sandwiche...Canadian here - and one who adores bacon sandwiches/sarnies, but not when made with back bacon (CanE)/Canadian bacon (AmE)/peameal bacon (my late mother).<br /><br />In your situation, to avoid any ambiguity (not to mention the possibility that the waiting/kitchen staff might helpfully "correct" my order en route), I would request:<br /><br />* Two pieces of toast (ideally to be delivered while/st still hot!)<br />* A side order of bacon <br />* Some butter<br /><br />...and assemble the whole thing myself :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6531620377943761322014-11-22T23:15:54.576+00:002014-11-22T23:15:54.576+00:00Jane
Have you not read any of the postings by Bri...Jane<br /><br />Have you not read any of the postings by Brits?<br /><br />To a British English speaker, a bacon sandwich on toast can only be a couple of rashers bacon of between two slices of white bread served — for no conceivable reason — on a slice of toast.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7374906748749668362014-11-22T02:40:55.448+00:002014-11-22T02:40:55.448+00:00Lynn,
American here...If you ordered a bacon sandw...Lynn,<br />American here...If you ordered a bacon sandwich on toast and were not served a bacon sandwich on toast why not just refuse it and tell them again more specifically what you had requested. Isn't it the restaurant's job to give you what you order? Are the British really so inflexible? Ridiculous!Janenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86392991477003526742014-10-05T12:09:07.226+01:002014-10-05T12:09:07.226+01:00Leaving aside the fact that a sandwich made with t...Leaving aside the fact that a sandwich made with toast and containing bacon has to be one of the signs of the Apocalypse (is there anything you colonial chaps won't eat?), the correct term for such an abomination would be a bacon toast sandwich. Asking for anything "on toast" means placing the thing you asked for on toast. It's one of the few areas where British English has no room for ambiguity. <br /><br />However, bacon is best served (without butter) between fairly thin slices of bread. Also, bacon should be soft and succulent, not crispy and brittle.Helen Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06558086636647169260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21995539134765288372014-09-02T13:23:47.302+01:002014-09-02T13:23:47.302+01:00Of course there are exceptions to national general...Of course there are exceptions to national generalisations, but it's broadly true that Brits like the taste of malt vinegar.<br /><br />Traditionally, home pickles are steeped in vinegar and a mixture of <i>pickling spices</i> which are (or were) actually sold as such. Fish and chip shops provide (probably diluted) malt vinegar to sprinkle on food deep-fried in batter.<br /><br />What we don't like about vinegar is its sharpness and its strength. That's why we like the taste of vinegar modified by spices, sugar and a touch of fruit. Brown sauce gives us this taste combined with the texture that we like in condiments — the texture of English mustard and our version of tomato ketchup.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74062796524102922272014-09-01T03:27:34.755+01:002014-09-01T03:27:34.755+01:00AmE and BrE nomenclature are FAR apart in sandwich...<i>AmE and BrE nomenclature are FAR apart in sandwich-making, clearly. But what is this 'brown sauce' that keeps coming up. Even Wikipedia did not help much.</i><br /><br />As wikipedia explains, its roughly similar to American steak sauce, or Australian barbecue sauce (Indeed HP Sauce is sold as a type of barbecue sauce in Australia). Its not at all similar to American barbecue sauce though.<br /><br />If thats still no help, its like ketchup/tomato sauce in consistency, but tangier and with a fruity taste. And a dark brown colour.<br /><br />If your looking for consistency between the languages; food, and especially condiments, is not the place to find it! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38411353496782766492014-08-30T18:42:49.209+01:002014-08-30T18:42:49.209+01:00HP sauce can provoke a torrent of nostalgia. In Bi...<b>HP sauce</b> can provoke a torrent of nostalgia. In Birmingham, it's a 'lost' treasure that can't be enjoyed anymore since it was grabbed by a foreign firm. Others write of travelling from B&B to B&B and finding the same sauce bottles on the table. Many — myself included — remember the quaint blurb in French on the side of the bottle. To remind us, there's <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHj3CQ5XLmA" rel="nofollow">this posting on YouTube</a>.<br /><br />The text seems to have changed over the years. This wording claims to be from 1917<br /><br /><i>Cette sauce de premier choix possède les plus hautes qualités digestives.<br />C'est un assortiment de fruits d'Orient, d'épices et de Vinaigre de 'Malt' pur.<br />Elle est absolument pure, appétissante et délicieuse avec les viandes chaudes ou froides: POISSON, JAMBON, FROMAGE, SALADE, &c, et pour relever le goût des SOUPES, HACHIS, RAGOÛTS, &c.<br />SEULS FABRICANTS Midland Vinegar Co. Ltd<br />BIRMINGHAM, ANGLETERRE<br /><br />Cette sauce de haute qualité est un mélange de fruits orientaux, d’épices et de vinaigre. Elle est absolument pur et ne contient aucune matiere colouratif ni preservatif.</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-23817376342377523972014-08-30T18:08:02.586+01:002014-08-30T18:08:02.586+01:00Here's a survey of brown sauces. All called &#...Here's a <a href="http://www.supermarketownbrandguide.co.uk/search.php?SearchString=Brown+Sauce" rel="nofollow">survey of brown sauces</a>. All called <i>'brown sauce'</i> except for <b>HP</b> and <b>Daddies</b> (I'd forgotten about that one.)David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4413660477053131382014-08-30T17:06:27.933+01:002014-08-30T17:06:27.933+01:00The most popular brand of brown sauce is probably ...The most popular brand of brown sauce is probably <a href="http://www.heinz.co.uk/Products/HP-Sauce/Our-Story" rel="nofollow">HP Sauce</a>.<br /><br /> A similar sauce was invented by William Brand, a cook employed by George IV. He calmed that when he served it at the royal table, the King exclaimed <i>'Brand, this sauce is A1!'</i>. <br /><br />I remember it from my boyhood, but nowadays the sauce has disappeared from the British market — except as an expensive import. In America, you call it a <i>steak sauce</i>. <a href="http://www.cooksinfo.com/a1-steak-sauce" rel="nofollow">This link</a> reports that, from a British perspective, <i>'A.1. Steak Sauce is a brown sauce that is runnier and fruitier than other brown sauces</i>. The name seems to gives away its British origin — A1 was the top category of ships registered for insurance at Lloyds of London.<br /><br />There are various own-brand and unbranded substitutes for HP sauce. The commodity name is <i>brown sauce</i>.<br /><br />To complicate matters, some cookery writers use the term to mean something quote different: a sort of gravy made with browned fat and flour. <br /><br />Journalists were amused some years ago when some customers complained that a new-fangled coating on cookware by the French firm Le Creuset made it impossible to make a decent <i>brown sauce</i>. What a nation, to make a fuss about some poor fellow's bottled condiment!<br /><br />The OED is deficient, but Oxford Dictionaries Online supply both definitions<br /><br /><i>1 A savoury sauce made with fat and flour cooked to a brown colour.<br />2. A commercially prepared relish containing vinegar and spices.</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11845523882692398672014-08-30T04:06:14.451+01:002014-08-30T04:06:14.451+01:00AmE and BrE nomenclature are FAR apart in sandwich...AmE and BrE nomenclature are FAR apart in sandwich-making, clearly. But what is this 'brown sauce' that keeps coming up. Even Wikipedia did not help much.n0aaahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08020996948408839877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24188608516203359162014-08-23T08:10:59.543+01:002014-08-23T08:10:59.543+01:00Australian here, but I believe our naming is close...Australian here, but I believe our naming is close to the UK.<br /><br />An XYZ Sandwich: something served between two slices of untoasted bread.<br /><br />XYZ on Toast: Something served on a toasted slice of bread. <br /><br />An XYZ Toasted Sandwich: Something served between two slices of bread toasted in a sandwich toaster (aka. sandwich maker)<br /><br />Asking for "bacon on toast" will get you bacon on toasted bread. If you want it in sandwich form just get the two halves and their associated bacon topping and create it yourself. :)<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52570483116740598822014-08-09T13:06:50.294+01:002014-08-09T13:06:50.294+01:00I am British, and although I am not from Liverpool...I am British, and although I am not from Liverpool I also like my bacon between two slices of toast, although I have never tried doing this outside home (I would order a bacon roll in a café).<br />As you note, in BrE sandwich means a specific thing (something between two slices of untoasted bread). Therefore a 'toasted sandwich' is naturally that whole thing toasted, not individual parts of it toasted. Everything else has a different name: bacon in a roll is a 'bacon roll'; bacon in a baguette is a 'bacon baguette'. The problem is that what you want isn't in a thing, it's between two things, so it has to be 'bacon in/between two slices of toast. If some English idiot can't understand this simple instruction, what can we say?!<br />In BrE, 'on' means 'on top of', not 'in' or 'between', it's just that US-style deli sandwich bars are so endemic that everyone knows what 'on wholemeal' etc means. Outside (of) sandwich bars, I believe most Brits would naturally say 'with' not 'on'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-19607650037484669392014-07-17T23:07:29.125+01:002014-07-17T23:07:29.125+01:00Re your point on "rounds" of toast, I...Re your point on "rounds" of toast, I've always treated a round of toast as being based on the capacity of the toaster, e.g. a two slice toaster gives a two slice round. However I think more generally a round just equates to a serving, so if you just ate three sandwiches another round would be another three.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-26047443168177195752014-07-14T15:15:14.696+01:002014-07-14T15:15:14.696+01:00I'm so happy to have found this! I came across...I'm so happy to have found this! I came across your blog while searching for the British equivalent for summer squash, but stumbled upon this excellent article about bacon sandwiches. I'm English but lived in New Jersey for 8 years, during which time I became accustomed to my favourite (lunchtime!) sandwich of BLT on toasted white bread. I do also like the classic British bacon buttie but fancied my old favourite this weekend and so ordered a 'BLT with mayo on toasted white bread' at a sandwich shop. A specialty sandwich shop! I didn't think it was too hard a request, until I got my sandwich and realised to my horror that they had made a BLT on normal white bread then toasted in a panini grill. Not only was it flattened by the panini grill, better suited for sturdier ciabatta than flimsy sliced white bread, but the lettuce, as you can imagine, had been rendered a soggy green film. The whole thing was dripping from the hot (hot!?) mayo. Seriously?! Good to know after your blog that I'm not the only person to have experienced such ineptitude, and that it can actually be explained by a mere cultural difference (ahem). Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-68800447896777104672014-07-02T22:39:48.639+01:002014-07-02T22:39:48.639+01:00I admit, I am mostly shocked that none of your pos...I admit, I am mostly shocked that none of your post was given over to explaining the differences between bacon(AmE) and bacon (BrE). Roshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02669423378438380019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10012245552814106712014-06-18T19:20:46.066+01:002014-06-18T19:20:46.066+01:00Sandwiches made with toast make me think of the ep...Sandwiches made with toast make me think of the episode of Old Bear, presumably based on a book by Jane Hissey, where the toys decide to go for a last picnic of the year when it's pretty cold. Bramwell Brown comes up with the (novel! surprising! innovative!) idea of making the sandwiches with toast, and wrapping them in teatowels to keep warm, so the toys can have warm sandwiches with their picnic.<br /><br />As a child, this seemed as outlandish as using Little Bear's trousers as a double piping bag for icing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com