tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post7808432138547875769..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: might of, would of, could of, should oflynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24718588067834269972018-04-18T21:30:32.878+01:002018-04-18T21:30:32.878+01:00Misinterpreted?
Reanalyzed.Misinterpreted?<br />Reanalyzed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34410271838056727162016-08-16T18:01:57.382+01:002016-08-16T18:01:57.382+01:00We'd better be careful how we write about shou...We'd better be careful how we write about <i>should have</i> from now on. <br /><br /><b>Specsavers</b> are reducing their <a href="https://www.specsavers.co.uk/news-and-information/latest-news/shouldve-gone-to-specsavers-ads" rel="nofollow">advertising slogan</a> from <i> should've gone to Specsavers </i> to the single word <i>should've</i>.<br /><br />So far so reasonable, but Supersavers are in the process of making this spelling <b>copyright</b>!<br /><br />See <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37092366" rel="nofollow">here.</a>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83373191939010479002016-06-10T00:35:25.607+01:002016-06-10T00:35:25.607+01:00That's more a matter of taste, rather than fac...That's more a matter of taste, rather than fact. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22777610869143013862016-06-09T18:46:36.085+01:002016-06-09T18:46:36.085+01:00I've been trying to find a source to help answ...I've been trying to find a source to help answer this question (which is how I came across your article): can "could of/would of" etc. be considered a colloquialism, or is it just an error? Personally my sentiment is falls with the latter. Uncle Staplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03410312467764725425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69263864649425332402016-02-22T17:42:47.222+00:002016-02-22T17:42:47.222+00:00But then, of course, "They got it right the s...But then, of course, "They got it right the second time" is a different sort of "got" to "I've got a secret" or "I've got a pink umbrella". It was the latter that we were taught not to use. I'm not quite sure what the difference actually <i>is</i>, but I do percieve one!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-28149395142371191022016-02-22T00:18:30.043+00:002016-02-22T00:18:30.043+00:00Annabel
"They were right the second time&quo...Annabel<br /><br /><i>"They were right the second time"<br />"They had it right the second time"</i><br /><br />Both of these mean something entirely different.<br /><br /><i>They got it right the second time</i> was the cynical judgement of those who regard the EU Commission as a bunch of unelected anti-democratic tyrants who will never accept any answer from a referendum other than the one they want.<br /><br />Your two sentences express the un-ironic opposite. The people I have in mind would howll either utterance to scorn.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14005767235769268082016-02-22T00:09:11.388+00:002016-02-22T00:09:11.388+00:00quote: "There is absolutely no feasible alter...quote: "There is absolutely no feasible alternative to<br /><br />They got it right the second time."<br /><br />"They were right the second time"<br />"They had it right the second time"<br />Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90601484916247508132016-02-21T23:23:11.904+00:002016-02-21T23:23:11.904+00:00Well, Dick, I suppose it's of some interest to...Well, Dick, I suppose it's of some interest to learn the scale of this mindless prejudice — or is it some fundamentalist superstition? Either way, there's no need to celebrate it.<br /><br />As for GBS, the OED quotes him (in his own voice, not that of a character) in one of his letters<br /><br /><i>I should muddle at it until I got it right.</i><br /><br />In British English there is virtually no alternative in common use to express the meaning 'calculate the correct arithmetical answer'. And we use it by extension for 'come up with the desired answer or result'. <br /><br />When the Irish failed in a referendum to support ratification of the (European Union) Treaty of Lisbon, a second referendum was held with tiny cosmetic changes. Every body, but everybody said <br /><br /><i>'The Irish will have to keep on voting until they get it right.'</i> <br /><br />There is absolutely no feasible alternative to <br /><br /><i>They got it right the second time</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-25032824329039516552016-02-21T21:54:05.485+00:002016-02-21T21:54:05.485+00:00The word got may be perfectly serviceable, but wha...The word <i>got</i> may be perfectly serviceable, but what a willingness to use it implies about the speaker is nowhere better illustrated than in George Bernard Shaw's <i>Pygmalion</i>, to wit:<br /><br />MRS. HIGGINS [at last, conversationally] Will it rain, do you think?<br /><br />LIZA: The shallow depression in the west of these islands is likely to move slowly in an easterly direction. There are no indications of any great change in the barometrical situation.<br /><br />FREDDY: Ha! ha! how awfully funny!<br /><br />LIZA: What is wrong with that, young man? I bet I got it right.<br /><br />Not much doubt that Shaw meant that last line, a little uncouth despite being shorn of Liza's cockney accent, to get a laugh.<br /><br />Indeed, the unceasing angst surrounding use of this word can also be found in the <a href="http://bit.ly/M-Wgot" rel="nofollow">comments about it</a> following its definition in the online Merriam-Webster's Dictionary. They include "When did this stupid word hit the dictionary! Why can we not speak correctly?!?!", "You never need to use the word got!", and "GOT should NOT be a word! Which would you prefer? "I got it!" or "I have it!"? I just heard another disc jockey say "Got!" I cringe everytime I hear it!"<br /><br />Personally, I cringe every time I see someone who thinks every time is one word. But that's just me.Dick Hartzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065924271517452841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78866991727985067332016-02-21T19:52:17.452+00:002016-02-21T19:52:17.452+00:00Annabel, I'll forgive your grandmother. But yo...Annabel, I'll forgive your grandmother. But your teachers were telling you a pack of lies.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69456751748438541952016-02-21T19:41:27.375+00:002016-02-21T19:41:27.375+00:00David Crosbie - you try telling my grandmother, or...David Crosbie - you try telling my grandmother, or my English teachers at school, for that matter, that "got was never wrong". We were never allowed to use "got", or "nice" for that matter, and were required to observe the distinction between "can" and "may"!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60602709531860960822016-02-21T19:39:46.703+00:002016-02-21T19:39:46.703+00:00I searched the blog for have got but there doesn&...I searched the blog for <i>have got</i> but there doesn't seem to be a single focus of discussion; it's all over the bog enmeshed in different discussions. <br /><br />So this is as good a place as any to report what they say in the <b>Longman Grammat of Spoken and Written English</b><br /><br /><i>has/have</i> as a main verb is <b>much</b> more common in the American Conversation corpus<br /><br />AmE 4,900 instances per million words<br />BrE 2,600<br /><br /><i>has/have got</i> is <b>vastly</b> more common in the BrE CONVERSATION corpus<br /><br />AmE 1,000 per million<br />BrE 2,600 per million<br /><br /><i>has/have gotten</i> is less common than one might expect in AmE and rare to the point of insignificance in BrE<br /><br />AmE 1,000 per million<br />BrE effectively zero<br /><br />Single word <i>got</i> <br /><br />AmE 1,800 per million<br />BrE 1,800 per million<br /><br />The last figures presumably include both sentences like <i>I got it yesterday</i> and sentences like <i>I got rhythm</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-81630943669278568942016-02-21T14:25:51.285+00:002016-02-21T14:25:51.285+00:00The OED entry for get is, naturally, endless. Use ...The OED entry for <i>get</i> is, naturally, endless. Use <b>I. 24.a</b> covers <i>have got</i> as the equivalent of <i>have </i> ('possess') and simultaneously <i>have got to</i> as the equivalent of <i>have to</i>.<br /><br />Some impressive quotees<br /><br />SHAKESPEARE<br />What a beard hast thou got; thou hast got more haire on thy chinne, then Dobbin my philhorse hase on his tail.<br />Fie, th' art a churle, ye haue got a humour there Does not become a man.<br /><br />SWIFT<br />Miss, you have got my Handkerchief; pray, let me have it.<br /><br />JOHNSON<br />I have just now got a cough, but it has never yet hindered me from sleeping.<br /><br />THACKERAY<br /> He has..got C. R. in blue upon his right arm.<br /><br />LEWIS CARROLL<br /> He has..got C. R. in blue upon his right arm.<br />The first thing I've got to do..is to grow to my right size again.<br /><br />RUSKIN<br />Quite ‘from the heart’—such hearts as the people have got.<br />I am very doubtful..whether you have wit enough to understand a word more of what I have got to say this month.<br /><br />MARK TWAIN<br />As a general rule the banker has not got in his possession the money which he owes to his customers.<br /><br />.. . and other writers who are not so renowned — at least not to me.<br /><br />Clearly, these two related uses have long been a normal feature of written Standard English — albeit in styles the OED classes as <i>'familiar language'</i>. <br /><br />On the other hand, this OED entry has (unsurprisingly) not been fully revised since 1889. I wonder whether the eventual Third Edition will observe was much stylistic restriction.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-67997710521048829732016-02-21T14:04:04.062+00:002016-02-21T14:04:04.062+00:00Got was never wrong.
Even written English has gra...<i>Got</i> was never wrong.<br /><br />Even written English has gradations of formality. And only in the most formal of styles is <i>got</i> inappropriate. And even then I'm sure there are acceptable uses.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-46270747776352691162016-02-21T04:42:05.114+00:002016-02-21T04:42:05.114+00:00Kate, I can totally get why someone would say it w...Kate, I can totally get why someone would say it was, like, you know, a weed.<br /><br />"Got" is a great rock'n'roll word though - a nice solid, punchy sound that drives the rhythm forward, and to my ears it also does the same for speech!<br /><br />And unfortunately (says you) since social networking arrived I've become more and more inclined to write as I speak and not as I write. So to speak. <br /><br />But just now, I think for the first time in my life (I'm a bit slow on the uptake) I've properly realised just <i>how</i> ridiculous it is to say it all the time the way we do! <br /><br />To say "I've got a feeling" is to say that at some point in the past I acquired a feeling. Whereas in actual everyday common speech the usage suggests a very distinct sense of immediacy, of the present moment. <br /><br />I wonder if anyone smarter than me (all of you!) has an idea of whether this slangish use of the word "got" is becoming more acceptable in "correct" written English? Or is it still just plain wrong? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04714495241234439852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44046162716088522632016-02-21T02:23:58.909+00:002016-02-21T02:23:58.909+00:00Fats Waller's song I've Got A Feeling I...Fats Waller's song <i>I've Got A Feeling I'm Falling</i> rather knocks on the head the idea of <i>'got a feeling'</i> as a Britishism. The lyrics are credited to Billy Rose, who was no less American than Fats.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87101413040034438552016-02-20T15:22:47.611+00:002016-02-20T15:22:47.611+00:00D C Cardwell:
Yes, I (English Midlands) would say ...D C Cardwell:<br />Yes, I (English Midlands) would say "I've got a feeling" in informal speech.<br /><br />I remember years ago reading a humorous grammar book for children which taught that the word 'got' is a weed which grows in sentences, i.e. you should say "I have a book" rather than "I have got a book".Kate Buntinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17223976536411967222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57002507808037730702016-02-17T20:13:30.999+00:002016-02-17T20:13:30.999+00:00So interesting! Completely coincidental lone data ...So interesting! Completely coincidental lone data point: I just read a 1938 adventure novel by Phoebe Atwood Taylor, one of a series (she appears to have been quite popular) set on Cape Cod, where the opposition between the locals and those from Away is part of the context. Our hero, Asey Mayo, is the consummate local, and Taylor gives him the "might of"/ "could of" construction as an aspect of his characterization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16670604410958460632016-02-16T10:12:20.475+00:002016-02-16T10:12:20.475+00:00If you click on the 'contractions' tag at ...If you click on the 'contractions' tag at the bottom of the post, you will find some of these issue already discussed.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83406707320259263442016-02-16T05:48:14.276+00:002016-02-16T05:48:14.276+00:00I suppose we're heading off topic here, but I ...I suppose we're heading off topic here, but I felt I might respond to your comment, Dick, to the effect that:<br /><br /><b>"Paul McCartney probably had similar reasons for placing got into his lyrics for the song "I've Got a Feeling"."</b><br /><br />The thing is... I would almost <i>always</i> say (in speech) "I've got a feeling" or, "I've got a headache", or "I've got an idea". Not "I have an idea" or even "I've an idea".<br /><br />It seems so perfectly normal to me that I wonder why you feel that McCartney added the word "got" for musical reasons! <br /><br />Maybe it's because I'm from Northern Ireland and he's from Liverpool. Does it sound wrong to Southern English people? <br /><br />(Although, as a songwriter myself, I wholeheartedly agree that "I have a feeling" would have sounded terrible - so terrible that McCartney would never have considered it for even a moment! I also couldn't really imagine Ray Charles singing "I have a woman, way 'cross town, she's good to me!" <br /><br />On a similar note, I've often noticed that many English (and Australian) people say "I've not heard of that" or "I've not been to the bank today", whereas we N. Irish people would say "I <i>haven't</i> heard of that" or "I <i>haven't</i> been to the bank today". <br /><br />Ever since leaving NI I've gone through life wondering what things I'm saying that other people find odd! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04714495241234439852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38370752718147969972016-02-15T17:05:27.822+00:002016-02-15T17:05:27.822+00:00I guess we can, Dick.I guess we can, Dick.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-76462016213952752792016-02-14T20:02:18.816+00:002016-02-14T20:02:18.816+00:00Dick, I'm underwhelmed by your discoveries.
C...<i>Dick, I'm underwhelmed by your discoveries.<br /><br />Consistently accurate, conventional spelling is achieved only in print media, where there are people employed to edit and correct.<br /><br />In Applied Linguistics we make a distinction between errors and mistakes. All of your examples are likely to be the result of typos, tiredness, inattention, a wilful spellchecker — in short, mistakes (or 'gaffes' as you call them).</i><br /><br />Really, David? Have you ever tried googling <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=a+hred&rlz=1C1LEND_enUS475US475&oq=a+hred&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64l3&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8#q=then+vs+than" rel="nofollow">"then vs than"</a> or <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=then+vs+than&rlz=1C1LEND_enUS475US475&oq=then+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.7011j0j4&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8#q=lead+vs+led" rel="nofollow">"lead vs led"</a>?<br /><br />I guess we can chalk up this proliferation of needless explanations to supercilious self-important grammar blowhards who fail to realize that confusing <i>then</i> and <i>than</i> or <i>lead</i> and <i>led</i> are just the mundane result of typos, tiredness, inattention, or a wilful spellchecker.Dick Hartzellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07065924271517452841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73910218538711682302016-02-14T03:26:41.388+00:002016-02-14T03:26:41.388+00:00Oh that spellchecker!
The part was played by Dann...Oh that spellchecker!<br /><br />The part was played by <b>Danny's</b> son.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9212019451671874852016-02-14T03:24:56.288+00:002016-02-14T03:24:56.288+00:00Rosemary
The other night there was a subtitle seq...Rosemary<br /><br />The other night there was a subtitle sequence on <b>Death in Paradise</b><br /><br /><i>Let's just say that someday once did the same thing for me <br /><br />when I was your age.<br /><br />And if they hadn't of done it,<br /><br />I wouldn't be around today doing the job I love.</i><br /><br />The speaker is supposed to be a policeman on a fictional British Island surrounded by the (mostly) French Antilles. The actor Danny John-Jules (famous as Cat in <b>Red Dwarf</b>) is English and ultimately of Ghanaian descent , but his parents were from Dominica — a real 'British' island with a French past. So the accent he uses could well be a calculated approximation to Dominican — polished somewhat for British and French TV viewers.<br /><br />What he says really does sound like <i>hadn't of</i>. And the programme is filmed, so the subtitler had time to consider and choose between <i>hadn't 've, hadn't have</i> and <i>hadn't of</i>.<br /><br />Interestingly, the subtitler did go for the 'correct' spelling earlier in the sequence with <i>thing</i>, although the character clearly says <i>ting</i>.<br /><br />(Incidentally, the performance was memorable for the fact that the part of the young urchin he was lecturing was being played by daunt's son.)David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66604804335285626372016-02-14T02:52:37.218+00:002016-02-14T02:52:37.218+00:00Dick, I'm underwhelmed by your discoveries.
C...Dick, I'm underwhelmed by your discoveries.<br /><br />Consistently accurate, conventional spelling is achieved only in <b>print</b> media, where there are people employed to edit and correct.<br /><br />In Applied Linguistics we make a distinction between <b>errors</b> and <b>mistakes</b>. All of your examples are likely to be the result of typos, tiredness, inattention, a wilful spellchecker — in short, mistakes (or <i>'gaffes'</i> as you call them).<br /><br />What is probably — I'm not yet 100% sure — happening in BrE is that <i>would of</i> is developing into a regular, systematic error. An error, that is, for someone trying to speak/write Standard English.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.com