tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post7830109432198201006..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: zee and zedlynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger81125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-85426149223328188042020-08-23T16:59:40.224+01:002020-08-23T16:59:40.224+01:00BrE (Scot, 60+). Re-reading this post, I’m feeling...BrE (Scot, 60+). Re-reading this post, I’m feeling very deprived: I never learned the alphabet song. I started primary school when I was five, with no kindergarten/nursery school/pre-school. I remember in that first year learning the Lord’s Prayer, and counting slowly from 1 to 100. I don’t rememember not knowing the alphabet, I just don’t remember learning it. Weird. But ir was always aitch and zed. Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90839019686036532352020-05-17T15:24:05.553+01:002020-05-17T15:24:05.553+01:00But it isn't, because it comes at the very end...But it isn't, because it comes at the very end, so a nice emphatic finish: Double-you, ecks, why, zed! whereas double-you, ecks, why, zee doesn't work....Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52523459376335465512020-05-17T07:28:33.225+01:002020-05-17T07:28:33.225+01:00those spellings of "Z" don't follow ...those spellings of "Z" don't follow the pattern either...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8249067436294190622020-05-17T07:27:17.705+01:002020-05-17T07:27:17.705+01:00the more consistent your ruleset is, the easier it...the more consistent your ruleset is, the easier it is to learn, the harder it is to forget, the more intuitive it is, and the more your mind can make sense of it or use it to make sense of other things<br /><br />zed does not follow the spelling/pronunciation schema of any other letter. It is completely inconsistent, none of the other letters work like that. It should sound out of place, because it is. If it does not, you have been conditioned to accept it. Because it is inconsistent, its not about subjective bias, its about pattern recognition<br /><br />zed is worse than zee for the same reason that metric is better than imperial:consistencyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3225749891427258762020-05-06T20:28:31.284+01:002020-05-06T20:28:31.284+01:00In other languages using the Latin alphabet, the p...In other languages using the Latin alphabet, the pronunciation of z is essentially consistent with British English, e.g. In German, it is pronounced "zet" and Italian, "zeta". It is the American pronunciation that is the novelty. Also, it is particularly illogical in English to pronounce z as "zee", as it sounds very similar to c, unlike "zed", which sounds like no other letter. There is Nothing wrong with having linguistic diversity across the whole Anglosphere- it has enriched English language; but this is a bad Americanism.Piemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466642382058470421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42492826580294432132019-06-02T17:17:15.899+01:002019-06-02T17:17:15.899+01:00BrE, Scot, mid 60s. To me, err has the DRESS vowel...BrE, Scot, mid 60s. To me, err has the DRESS vowel. And I would pronounce the letter R like a rhotic pirate: aaarrrrrrr.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44823507675236398082017-03-20T06:17:09.225+00:002017-03-20T06:17:09.225+00:00Yes "fi-yive"(5) and "ny-ine"(...Yes "fi-yive"(5) and "ny-ine"(9) were actually used by American telephone operators for clarification due to the limitations of the old carbon transmitters. (only slightly exaggerated on "Laugh In") My stepmother worked for Bell Telephone Co. (AT&T).James in USAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08767182210079420199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89304672740680479912017-02-02T00:50:17.501+00:002017-02-02T00:50:17.501+00:00My BrE version, from London late 1940s, was
A B C ...My BrE version, from London late 1940s, was<br />A B C D E F G<br />H I J K LMNOP<br />LMNOP Q R S T<br />U V W X Y Zed<br /><br />The melody for the first two lines was repeated for the last two. The Z is sung on the tonic/root so resolution is achieved and no supplementary lines are needed. This is why (some) Brits just sing the bare alphabet, as shown. (Resolution means roughly that the melody sounds complete; a listener is not left hanging, expecting more.)<br /><br />The US version I've heard has a different melody for the two lines Q R S T U V / W X Y and Zee, a falling cadence from 5th to an unresolved 2nd, which is then resolved by singing fifth and sixth lines to the tune of the first two.<br /><br />What I find strange is that LBS (using his PC initialism) in India learned the song in the same way as I did but with <b>four</b> added lines. I assume those lines were sung to the melody of the US third to sixth lines. Mollymooly seems to have learned something similar in Ireland.<br /><br />Of course young schoolchildren aren't thrown by the failure of zed to rhyme with G, P, T. Firstly, they have no expectations when learning and will just absorb what is given to them, and secondly, they face so much illogical irregularity that zee/zed wouldn't even register as strange. Compare, for example, being taught to say the letter C in the early phonic readers' way of kuh (hard c), taught to sing it in the alphabet song as cee (soft c), and shown it in picture books exemplified by a cat (hard c) alongside a large letter C (soft c).KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51998135114752913032017-02-01T23:53:27.323+00:002017-02-01T23:53:27.323+00:00vp below identifies 5 and 9 as a potentially confu...vp below identifies 5 and 9 as a potentially confused pair. My mother,s a (British) telephonist during (BrE?) The War, was taught to say 5 as 'fife' to prevent confusion with nine. Of course, microphones weren't anywhere near as good in those days so they could sound similar.<br /><br />Off topic: she was also taught to say a group of three numbers as eg 'fife double-fife', never 'double-fife fife' since the third fife might get missed, and never to say 'treble' ('triple' wouldn't have even been considered) which might be misheard as 'double'.<br /><br />Lily Tomlinson's Ernestine on 'Laugh In' used to say 'fi-yive'. I used to wonder whether that was just her being humorous or whether that was how US telephonists really pronounced it.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12262411978301374922017-02-01T23:43:24.600+00:002017-02-01T23:43:24.600+00:00I thought that was Glaswegian. They also say Dezem...I thought that was Glaswegian. They also say Dezember. Off topic, I know; just another difference I have noticed.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27393556903709087272015-10-01T09:09:34.411+01:002015-10-01T09:09:34.411+01:00My grandfather used to say things like "every...My grandfather used to say things like "everything from Ay to Izzard." That was in Wayne County, Kentucky, right on the border with Tennessee and only about 70 miles west of Virginia.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01362017120398037503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-7062293941692677372015-05-12T12:50:51.831+01:002015-05-12T12:50:51.831+01:00Creative Painting
One of these things does not be...Creative Painting<br /><br /><i>One of these things does not belong.</i><br /><br />Only under two very restrictive conditions:<br /><br />1. You speak English.<br /><br />2. You're American.<br /><br />Outside that little box consider:<br /><br />French<br />B - bé<br />C - sé<br />D - dé<br />G - gé<br />P - pe<br />T - té<br />V - vé<br />Z - zed<br /><br />Italian<br />B - bi<br />C - chi<br />D - di<br />G - ji<br />P - pi<br />T - ti<br />V - vi<br />Z - zeta<br /><br />Spanish<br />French<br />B - be<br />C - the/se<br />D - de<br />G - ge<br />P - pe<br />T - te<br />V - ve<br />Z - theta/seta<br /><br />German<br />B - be<br />C - tse<br />D - de<br />G - ye<br />P - pe<br />T - te<br />V - vau<br />W - ve<br />Z - tsed<br /><br />Czech<br />B - bé<br />C - tsé<br />D - cé<br />G - gé<br />P - pé<br />T - té<br />V - ve<br />Z - zetDavid Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31634051413208873382015-05-12T11:16:38.663+01:002015-05-12T11:16:38.663+01:00B - bee
C - cee
D - dee
G - gee
P - pee
T - tee
V ...B - bee<br />C - cee<br />D - dee<br />G - gee<br />P - pee<br />T - tee<br />V - vee<br />Z - zed<br /><br />One of these things does not belong.<br /><br />Creative Paintinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13908550078598434725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-22655326879305722632015-01-27T21:57:29.985+00:002015-01-27T21:57:29.985+00:00It took me a minute to realize what you meant by &...It took me a minute to realize what you meant by 'haitch.' I'm American, and I've never heard 'h' pronounced 'haitch' before. So no :)<br /><br />P.S. The single quotation marks are on purpose, as well as the fact that it is outside the period. I know BrE uses double and single quotation marks differently and put them before punctuation - and that you call it a 'full stop.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73198147319648632882012-05-28T22:57:35.255+01:002012-05-28T22:57:35.255+01:00Regarding shreevatsa's comment on the rhythms ...Regarding shreevatsa's comment on the rhythms of the Alphabet Song, the BrE version I've always known goes like this:<br /><br />ABCD EFG /<br />HIJK LMNOP /<br />QRST UVW /<br />X, Y, Zed!<br /><br />Note no attempt at all to rhyme the Z, you just sing the last three letters as a kind of emphatic staccato finale.Stavronhttp://rwec.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91366485939172610322012-05-25T12:47:47.679+01:002012-05-25T12:47:47.679+01:00In the military life we overcame this problem with...In the military life we overcame this problem with code-words for each letter. And those codes are known and used NATO-wide. At least I thought so till I met a German officer spelling D as "Dolly", instead of "Delta". :-)Military Englishhttp://www.stanag6001.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72292989641892980082012-05-17T15:44:41.130+01:002012-05-17T15:44:41.130+01:00I've just deleted a comment with lots of infor...I've just deleted a comment with lots of information presented in an abusive way. So, commenter, if you'd like to try again without the put-downs and rudeness, I'd be happy to let it through the gates.lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8054439619973956232012-02-28T14:00:26.875+00:002012-02-28T14:00:26.875+00:00Zulu is used in american military as well!Zulu is used in american military as well!Mark Wilsonhttp://taylorswiftalbums.net/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-39606937162527859692012-01-12T23:03:48.077+00:002012-01-12T23:03:48.077+00:00David Crosbie: With hair and fur, to be sure.David Crosbie: With <i>hair</i> and <i>fur</i>, to be sure.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59583272937787048872012-01-12T02:30:04.655+00:002012-01-12T02:30:04.655+00:00Phil Collins sings "zee" in the Genesis ...Phil Collins sings "zee" in the Genesis song "Who Dunnit?" from their 1981 Abacab album. It's rather weird because Collins sings the song in an exaggerated Cockney accent and then uses "zee" just in order to rhyme some of the lyrics.Andy JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819413906544791899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-898366803965280592012-01-05T18:33:26.761+00:002012-01-05T18:33:26.761+00:00@ Biochemist - yes indeed, we had a folding Zed Be...@ Biochemist - yes indeed, we had a folding Zed Bed in my childhood. In fact, I think it is still stored in a corner of my father's dressing-room, but I could be wrong....Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35140789177120500642012-01-05T12:54:07.785+00:002012-01-05T12:54:07.785+00:00Maybe we should all just switch to the NATO phonet...Maybe we should all just switch to the NATO phonetic alphabet ?Svetlin Simeonovhttp://www.careltranslations.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55256986436908289792012-01-05T10:58:35.245+00:002012-01-05T10:58:35.245+00:00Mrs Redboots - did you ever sleep on a Zed-bed? Of...Mrs Redboots - did you ever sleep on a Zed-bed? Of course that was a camp bed (BrE) that folded up into a Z-shape, but that name may contribute to the La-Z-Boy confusion (which I shared).<br /><br />I know an elderly preacher who was bemused that the most recent President Bush was apparently known as 'doo-bye-ah' (Dubya). He is very deaf so it took a while to explain....biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-17661784251175398552012-01-05T01:28:25.754+00:002012-01-05T01:28:25.754+00:00Zed's dead, Baby.
Zed's dead.Zed's dead, Baby.<br />Zed's dead.Solstihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13800947447598130594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-75311868842569362152012-01-04T01:51:05.976+00:002012-01-04T01:51:05.976+00:00I don't have the most recent edition of John W...I don't have the most recent edition of John Wells's <i>Longman Pronunciation Dictionary</i> but I don't suppose <i>err</i> has changed all that much.<br /><br />JW gives <br /><b>ɜ:</b> (rhymes with <i>fur</i>) for RP (relatively posh standard British)<br /><b>eə</b> (rhymes with <i>hair</i>) for British but not RP<br />[Other British accents with some sort of <b>r</b> sound in the word are not included]<br /><br /><b>eᵊr</b> and <b>ɜʴ:</b> for General American (I'll leave it to Americans to say what these rhyme with)David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.com