tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post7853963676348898634..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: the Stateslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-58534538838308695222021-05-25T18:31:07.050+01:002021-05-25T18:31:07.050+01:00Same here, we say United Statians.Same here, we say United Statians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24521123194586009242021-02-04T22:49:10.431+00:002021-02-04T22:49:10.431+00:00I spent many years in American countries from the ...I spent many years in American countries from the Center and Southern part of the continent. There we used to say "the US", and we called the US people gringos or United Statians.Adrihttps://adrianchifu.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42944211517710552482020-08-13T13:27:12.760+01:002020-08-13T13:27:12.760+01:00BrE (Scot, 60+) I have been collaborating professi...BrE (Scot, 60+) I have been collaborating professionally with US citizens for nearly 30 years. In written communications, I nearly always use “the US”: it’s just SO much easier to type. I will also say things like “US colleagues”, which seems to work, even although the full “United States colleague” sounds strange to me.<br /> I am re-visiting this post. Since reading it about a year ago, I’ve become convinced that it’s ok to use “America(n)” here. I know that I also use this when talking to my wife, usually to share something that I’ve read on this blog. I have no idea what I use in general speech. Most of the Americans I meet I already know in advance to be American, so “where are you from?” expects a state or city name as an answer. Mind you, one very dead-pan individual tried to persuade me that New England is a state name.<br /> Having lived in England for 40 odd years, I don’t even react to being called Scotch (or even English by the uninitiated). These days, very few people try to take the p*** out of my accent, although 40 years ago it felt incessant. I find myself wondering why I ever did get upset. But I’m no saint. I still have a peeve with those who correct how I pronounce “bath” and I have been known to refer to the RP mafia.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-65957198332625080612020-08-13T12:16:04.987+01:002020-08-13T12:16:04.987+01:00BrE. I have no issue with anything you say. Most o...BrE. I have no issue with anything you say. Most of us in the UK would hear “Boston”, and assume that the large city in the USA is meant, even although there is a Boston in Lincolnshire. Here I have assumed that Lincolnshire is well enough known internationally to stand on its own. But I do have a (small) peeve regarding Americans who use terms like Paris, France.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86718799491974906322019-01-03T22:22:18.611+00:002019-01-03T22:22:18.611+00:00I can only tell you that I lived in Buenos Aires, ...I can only tell you that I lived in Buenos Aires, Argentina, from 1946 to 1952, as a child of an <br />"American" (ie US passport. "and when we spoke in English to other US citizens/"Americans, we always referred to " the States" and only with that term.<br />I think it had been used all along by US colonials and ex-pats. Interesting to know when it started.Beedy Parkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-338240089930309542018-02-08T14:29:45.296+00:002018-02-08T14:29:45.296+00:00On reflection, there are contexts in which it can ...On reflection, there are contexts in which it can be legitimate to use a word such as <i>American</i> to express identity.<br /><br />For politicians — and, indeed, ordinary patriots — sense-of-identity use is appropriate and effective when addressing their fellow countrymen. Indeed, it can be positively desirable — invoking a sense of solidarity. Friction arises when speakers use the identity connotations when <b>criticising</b> their country. But then friction may what the speaker is choosing to provoke.<br /><br />It's a two-edged sword, though. People who object to <b>some</b> aspects of US government policy or US-based culture are apt to use <i>American</i> as a term of opprobrium — thus extending their prejudice to all things and people connected with the US, including nice guys like you.<br /><br />When talking to people who are not your fellow countrymen, I suggest, the communication should be frictionless if you say <i>American</i> to convey where you come from. OK the odd Australian may be momentarily thrown, being more used to hearing <i>'from the States'</i>, but any awkwardness is easily repaired. However, if you want to express your identity, some hearers/readers may feel more sympathetic if you say something explicit such as <i>I regard myself as an American</i> or <i>My country, America ...</i><br /><br />I'm afraid the wording<br /><br /><i>people from the USA (aka Americans)</i><br /><br />can come across as confrontational. It seems to muddle origin with identity in a context where readers may see the two as distinct. <br />David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-82853706222874950992018-02-08T12:46:23.367+00:002018-02-08T12:46:23.367+00:00I'm saddened by the tone of your comment, Anon...I'm saddened by the tone of your comment, Anonymous. Language, I firmly believe, should be used to communicate — not to express identity. This is difficult when a word <b>can</b> be used that way. All the more reason to avoid any insistence on the link.<br /><br />As long as it's clear to speaker and hearer (or writer and reader) that the US is what both sides have in mind, then <i>America</i> and <i>American</i> make for easy, efficient, frictionless communication.<br /><br />But is the hearer/readers live in or identify with some other country or region in the Americas, the context of communication may be utterly changed.<br /><br /><i>Who put Canadians in charge of Americans?</i><br /><br />There's a difference between choosing a word to communicate a concept and forcing the world to accept that word. None of the Canadian posters demanded that you should change your language.<br /><br /><i> Or Australians who openly admit to badgering Americans, regardless of their answer? </i><br /><br />Again, I think you've misread something. Australians use whatever word or phrase they feel comfortable with in communicating. For many of them, at least some of the time, that phrase is <i>the States</i>.<br /><br />OK, there are people in the world who say that you and your countrymen shouldn't use the word <i>American</i> to identify yourself. But I don't think any of the posters here are saying that.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34564415575565096482018-02-08T03:30:01.981+00:002018-02-08T03:30:01.981+00:00I find it super arrogant of so many of you who see...I find it super arrogant of so many of you who seem to believe that people from the USA (aka Americans) are somehow the only people who aren't allowed to determine what to call themselves. Above, someone said Canada's identity involves NOT being American (which is fairly sad), and that they've led the way by using a clear and consistent alternative. Who put Canadians in charge of Americans? Or Australians who openly admit to badgering Americans, regardless of their answer? You people have Americans afraid and embarrassed to have to identify themselves! And yet it is Americans that are seen as the bullies on the world stage?!<br /><br />Sheesh.<br /><br />And I'm from New York, so I say New York, since the inevitable follow-up question to the country is where, specifically.<br /><br />And I've met plenty of Europeans and Asians in the US who tell me what city they're from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-14248580543058486192017-05-06T06:07:19.487+01:002017-05-06T06:07:19.487+01:00I, a Californian now living in the Northeast, have...I, a Californian now living in the Northeast, have never heard an American say "the States." It's the US or America. Only cheesy patriotic sorts say "the USA." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57530113559993832972017-01-24T14:44:06.044+00:002017-01-24T14:44:06.044+00:00Surely Americans come from America, same as Austra...Surely Americans come from America, same as Australians come from Australia and Peruvians from Peruvia. Someone from 'The States' would surely be called a Statian or some such, much as someone from The Gambia is called a Gambian (in English). Since 'American' is surely overwhelmingly the adjective and the noun for a person (in English), I hazard that this could make Brits likely to use 'America' for where American people and things come from, as some US commenters have experienced.<br /><br />Although I sometimes use the shorthand 'the States' (and sometimes refer to the European mainland as 'the Continent'), in the mouth of an American it sounds false - I think because I don't believe they would refer to 'the States' in the States: Trump didn't trumpet "Make the States great again!" and I don't believe I've come across it in US films or on TV.<br /><br />Looking at Lynne's first table, I suspect that awareness (surely there is) of its informal status would lead to 'the States' appearing less frequently in writing than in speech. Regarding Brits using US and USA, which lead the way in the table, I did wonder whether they have been seduced by the more official UK versus Britain, EU versus Europe, and historically USSR versus Russia, into thinking that initialisms are more formal and possibly more correct. But then I realised they are also much shorter and easier to type! So I wouldn't be surprised if US/USA was more likely in writing but America in speech.KeithDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451059429340892054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-52658581748919603142015-06-08T17:30:21.323+01:002015-06-08T17:30:21.323+01:00Let me add another point of view. I myself use &qu...Let me add another point of view. I myself use "the States" frequently when referring to the US and I think I prefer this due to the fact that it "rolls off the tongue" better than saying (as you pointed out in the post) "the-ewe-ess" or "the-ewe-ess-a". Too many vowels mushed together. However the reason for preferring "the States" to "America" is a different matter. I am Swedish, and in Sweden the common names for the USA is "U.S.A." (pronounced "uvesaa" with a v, in order to break up the vowels) or "Amerika", but saying "Amerika" in Swedish makes you sound as if you were emigrating to America from Småland in the nineteenth century. Few people under the age of fifty would use it. For me this connotation survives when I switch to English, so instead I use "the States". So that's a "second language" point of view.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32891830425273801842014-10-21T22:46:29.600+01:002014-10-21T22:46:29.600+01:00This is such a non-issue. America is the name of ...This is such a non-issue. America is the name of the country. There is only one America, and many United States, such as the United States of Brazil, or the United States of Mexico.Steven W. Rodgershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01612426916664664855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72014446866998531562014-08-23T09:07:25.942+01:002014-08-23T09:07:25.942+01:00In addition to the other AusE responses here ill j...In addition to the other AusE responses here ill just add that when "the states" is used here to refer to the US, its usually prefaced with "'over in' the states".<br /><br />This is as others have mentioned due to the fact that Australia also has states, it is occasionally necessary to specifically discuss the states (to the exclusion of the territories), or the states as entities separate from the federal government.<br /><br />All this being said, most will still know what is meant by context relatively quickly. Other terms for the states (eg. the US) are preferred as they rid the conversation of ambiguity quicker.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69635434740505109722014-07-23T20:54:06.849+01:002014-07-23T20:54:06.849+01:00This is interesting because I used to always call ...This is interesting because I used to always call it 'the States' when I lived in Canada, but I've since unlearned that phrase since I moved to the UK. I almost never hear it here, and when I do it's generally said by an American or Canadian. 99% of the time, the people around me say 'America'. Brynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01331398392683415023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34929551038221106662014-04-15T10:28:07.393+01:002014-04-15T10:28:07.393+01:00I'm beginning to think this question is moot (...I'm beginning to think this question is moot (AmE) as well as moot (BrE).<br /><br />As such I shall now list my originating location as Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha.<br /><br />Alternatively I might say "I'm from the internet"<br /><br />Or perhaps more evasively, "It's where I'm going that really matters."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02138260302522477243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-9763999905835590712014-03-01T04:54:48.494+00:002014-03-01T04:54:48.494+00:00Both my (American-living-in-Canada) mother and I (...Both my (American-living-in-Canada) mother and I (a full-fledged Canuck) use "The States." Like other posters have noted, I had it drilled into my head in school that "America" was improper because any North or South American is technically from "America". As such, it always rubs me the wrong way to hear "America" used for the country below us. Like the other, I use "the US" most for general use, but I think I'd be more inclined to use "the States" if referring to a visit (e.g. "I was in the States over the weekend.").Another Canadian Perspectivenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-73075639070787065332012-10-29T16:34:58.034+00:002012-10-29T16:34:58.034+00:00@Anonymous:
Maybe Australians would also find it ...@Anonymous:<br /><br />Maybe Australians would also find it "inappropriate" to use "The States" to refer to the USA!<br /><br />The US isn't the only country in the world with states, you know.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10899400906921173402012-10-29T14:16:41.397+00:002012-10-29T14:16:41.397+00:00Hi I am an American and I live in Australia. I hav...Hi I am an American and I live in Australia. I have on several occasions been confronted by Australians speaking to me about The United States or United States of America and referring to it as "The States". Frankly I am always a bit put off when I hear this. My experience has been that a typical and appropriate usage for this phrase is when One American is relating to another American in a casual conversation occurring outside the boarders of the United States of America. Also it is usually making reference to the continental United States and would exclude reference to Alaska and Hawaii. I don't know when it started however I know it was particularly prominent between military service personal stationed abroad and the phrase imparts a feeling of brotherhood and patriotism. At least that's how I see it. If you're a foreigner us this phrase to speak to Americans you should know many of them would find this inappropriate even if they are too polite to tell you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-62121262510564094502012-09-15T19:23:33.902+01:002012-09-15T19:23:33.902+01:00An overwhelming majority of the Twitter friends I ...An overwhelming majority of the Twitter friends I connect with daily are tweeting to me in dialects of English other than Am. English (which I colloquially call 'Yanklish' when my lovely friends and I enjoy interesting dialect discussions.) <br /><br />As a US citizen, I don't have any great difficulty with the term 'The States', and I have also found myself using this term since living for brief periods in the UK and also seeing many UK/Irish/European Twitter friends using it. (I studied for 2 short summer terms in the UK [London] in 2009 and 2011.)<br /><br /><br /> I do have a bit of a problem with our country being called 'America'. Here's why. This was actually never the intended name of the country. And though they have likely come to loathe it (as it gets them confused with "us") Canadians and Mexicans are every bit as much Americans as we are. It was the entire 'New World', prior to the national boundaries that exist today that was named for Amerigo Vespucci, not we in the modern United States (including now also Hawiians, who aren't even on the continent at all.) The 'America' in the long name of our country (The United States of America) describes location (the United States of/on the American continent.) It was never originally meant to suggest The United States <i>called</i> America. The nation's original name (if you look it up) was The United States of <i>North</i> America. We are not the entire continent of North America, so this clearly described geographic location. We are simply a nation made up of a union of states called the United States. And it is [found on the continent] 'of North America'--only one of the countries located there. To refer to us as 'Americans' constitutes claiming the entire continent for ourselves, which I feel is wrong. Granted, 'United States' is a horrible name! What is one to call a citizen of a country called The United States? A United Statesian? Statesman? Statesperson? It's rather like calling someone a UKian or United Kingdomite. People in the UK have the same problem, and must reach for other more specific location descriptors like 'British' or 'English', or 'Norn Irish' (a favorite!) to describe themselves. Or simply say 'UK <i>citizen</i>' as I would say US citizen, but that sounds more like it belongs in a serious news broadcast. It's just not as smooth as saying Scottish, or Japanese. A citizen of the [then] British Empire could refer to 'the American colonies/ists' and be reasonably understood as meaning those belonging to the British Empire. This was not excluding the other colonies there (French, Spanish, &c.) as also being part of 'The Americas'; it was simply being used specific to Great Britain's interests. The Spanish may have referred to their own colonies/ists in 'The Americas', in the same way as also 'American colonies'. It didn't have to mean just us back then. Once we became an independent republic with this difficult, impersonal name of 'United States', located in N. America, things became a bit foggy and our continental location became our name. I think is wrong, as I said. We're not the only N. American country, and for that matter there are other 'Americas', as well, i.e. Central and South America. All are part of Amerigo's 'New World'. To call us 'The States' is more correct than to call us 'America'. I'm definitely an American (by location) but so are other people who now no longer use that continental identity, due to its coming to mean only people of the 'US'ofA. But then, they also have better country names, and can refer to themselves as Canadians and Mexicans, whereas we citizens of the US are at a loss to make any such lyrical thing out of our country's name.<br />curiouSolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03900232353431787602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55986660891455900852012-08-24T17:02:46.694+01:002012-08-24T17:02:46.694+01:00As I live on an offshore island, I could argue tha...As I live on an offshore island, I could argue that I live in England but not in Great Britain, as this is technically correct, although I wouldn't get upset if somebody said I was from Great Britain. If asked which country I live in I say Britain rather than the UK or United Kingdom, which describes a constitutional position but not a geographic location. I'm not that bothered about including or excluding people in Northern Ireland, who are divided into those who regard themselves as British anyway and those who regard themselves as Irish an living in an illegitimate entity.<br />enitharmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829757748223670291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-39408003687844306342012-05-08T02:53:30.856+01:002012-05-08T02:53:30.856+01:00After having this conversation more than once:
Q. ...After having this conversation more than once:<br />Q. Where are you from?<br />A. The United States.<br />Q. (eyeroll) Well, yes, that's obvious. Where in America?<br /><br />I began to respond "the United States, near Washington, DC," which more than once led to: (eyeroll) "Why do Americans always name their town? Everybody else in the world..." <br /><br />When I traveled as a student, I found these occasional responses upsetting enough that I actually dreaded the "where are you from" question. (Yes, kind of pathetic, I know.)<br />I've grown up since then, and realized that those who turn a friendly (at least on one side) encounter into an opportunity to confirm and share their favorite stereotypes about American arrogance and insularity are both rare and sometimes just a touch arrogant and insular themselves.Machanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83123975836538175732012-05-04T10:48:16.814+01:002012-05-04T10:48:16.814+01:00I'm Australian and have lived for extended per...I'm Australian and have lived for extended periods in Malaysia, Sweden and Indonesia. The first time I heard "the States" I was in Malaysia and had no idea what the speaker was talking about as Malaysia has it's own states. I've only ever heard yanks use this term.<br /><br />But what really grinds my gears is when you ask an American where they are from and they simply reply with their state, or in some cases just their city! How arrogant to assume that everyone knows the composition of your country. Unless it's a well-known city like New York or LA, how dare you assume that I know where "Delaware" is or "Maryland". I really appreciate it when Americans first say their country (whether the USA, the States, the US or even America), before saying their state or city. <br /><br />I started noticing this when I was travelling the world back in 2008 and gradually would reply to such arrogant remarks with things like "never heard of that country", or when asked about where I'm from simply say my state, "Victoria" and let them figure out where that is.<br /><br />One woman said "I'm an Indiana girl" when I asked her where she was from when I was in Berlin. I replied, "well you don't look very Indian to me".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78571676917665989712011-11-16T18:13:08.255+00:002011-11-16T18:13:08.255+00:00This question has always been easy for me.
Where ...This question has always been easy for me.<br /><br />Where am I from? New York. And, as Spalding Gray says, "New York is not America. New York is an island off the coast of America."<br /><br />(I might feel differently if I were from the Bronx. And people from, say, Rochester - or, as we say, "upstate," meaning everything north of the Tappan Zee Bridge - might have the same objection to NY=NYC as Canadians and Brazilians have to America=USA. But I digress.)<br /><br />But I think Molly has it exactly right. It depends on context. When I'm outside the States, I use "the States" frequently, especially with my fellow Americans, and perhaps most often in the phrase "back to" or "back in the States." As in: "I'm going back to the States for Christmas." Or "I was back in the States a couple of weeks ago, and it was strange to hear people talking about the economy without ever mentioning Greece." I think the examples of military and military-influenced usages are based on the same implied understanding.<br /><br />Saying "the US" would seem strangely specific, because the shared context makes the modifier unnecessary, in much the same way that I imagine an Englishman would talk about watching "the football" rather than "an association football match." We're not unaware of the United Mexican States and the Papal States and the states that comprise India and Australia and the existence of matter in liquid and solid and gaseous states, but there's no chance our partners in conversation will understand us as referring to any states other than the United States of America.<br /><br />In the US, though, I would normally understand "the States" to be a particularizing phrase, used only in cases where it's important to distinguish between the nation - the US as a whole - and the states themselves, unless it's clear from context that the relevant distinction is between the States and someplace outside of the States. (I view this as consistent with Canadian usage, in which their national identity as <i>not them</i> establishes a context in which the latter distinction is always clear. "North American" is, to my knowledge, exclusively a Canadian term, meaning "the US and Canada" with a subtext of "forgot about us, eh?")<br /><br />PS to Kelley: If you've never found Canadians to care one way or the other if US citizens claim the entire continent, I can only presume you've never spent any material time in the company of Canadians. You may think Europeans have a chip on their collective shoulder about US cultural imperialism, but they've got nothing on our friends to the North.Tednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-54497255749431878682009-12-31T17:24:28.589+00:002009-12-31T17:24:28.589+00:00I'm an AmE speaker who just wrapped up two yea...I'm an AmE speaker who just wrapped up two years of study abroad in Belgium. I nearly always say "the States" to avoid sounding arrogant to my Latin American friends. I never found Canadians to care one way or the other if US citizens claim the entire continent. <br /><br />I also speak Belgian French (BFr?), and noted that my peer group of Belgian university students referred to the States as either "l'Amérique" or "les States." I think this can be explained by the prevalence of BrE as a second language education in continental Europe. I very rarely, if ever, heard the USA referred to as "les Etats-Unis" and absolutely never as "les Etats-Unis de l'Amérique" when discussing where someone is from. Once or twice, I heard "l'US" which sounds just about as awkward as it does in English, and nearly sounds like the French word for "west."<br /><br />Just an interesting tidbit!Kelleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-38626294183591083522009-10-25T03:22:38.799+00:002009-10-25T03:22:38.799+00:00"America the Beautiful", which I and a l..."America the Beautiful", which I and a lot of my fellow-countrymen think <i>ought</i> to be the national anthem of the United States of Middle North America, Plus The Upper Western Bit And Some Islands Here And There, is actually rather less "patriotic" than many anthems, including by the way "O Canada" -- I yield to no one in my admiration for things Canadian, but the national anthem is not one of those things.<br /><br />The first verse, which is that all most people know, is mostly about the physical country rather than the abstraction. The last four lines of the second verse are my favorite, and I sometimes use them as an email signature, precisely because they are somewhat critical of my country (as am I). I quote them here, patriotically:<br /><br />America! America!<br />God mend thine ev'ry flaw,<br />Confirm thy soul in self-control,<br />Thy liberty in law.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.com