tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post8439519601426973678..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: Are these British expressions British?lynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger206125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-70398517212226500922020-08-30T11:21:57.795+01:002020-08-30T11:21:57.795+01:00BrE(Scot, 60+). Re “you can’t bake in a pan”. In S...BrE(Scot, 60+). Re “you can’t bake in a pan”. In Scotland, the two most common varieties of shop-bought bread are “plain” and “pan”. Scots do talk about a pan loaf. However, I’m not sure if anyone other than the baker makes the connection between what it’s called and what container it’s baked in.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16676887074266758502020-08-29T22:27:34.428+01:002020-08-29T22:27:34.428+01:00BrE (Scot, 60+). In the 1950-60s, the village I gr...BrE (Scot, 60+). In the 1950-60s, the village I grew up I wasn’t on the gas mains, and everyone I new had an electric cooker, with electric oven and electric hob. The hob, in fact, had two round hot plates and a rectangular griddle (girdle in Scots dialect). With the advent of North Sea oil and gas (late 70s onwards), the Scottish Nationalists made a big deal that it was “our” gas, but FAR more English people than Scots gad mains gas. I know times change, but it’s quite easy to find online maps showing the percentage of homes with access to mains gas. Surprisingly, there are large areas (not necessarily large numbers of homes) with fewer than 65% of homes on the gas mains. So it’s actually not true that every cooker in the UK has a gas hob. It surprised me how many still don’t.Shy-replyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01891566073375322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66257061425535751072017-01-09T16:08:20.133+00:002017-01-09T16:08:20.133+00:00(Revisiting this thread) The 2016 TV drama about t...(Revisiting this thread) The 2016 TV drama about the young Queen Victoria talked about "Lord Mel-bun" - incorrectly, since the Derbyshire town from which he took his title is definitely "Mel-borne".Kate Buntinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17223976536411967222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32759368652257569552016-04-01T05:05:19.228+01:002016-04-01T05:05:19.228+01:00wicked to mean 'good, cool' is something t...<i>wicked to mean 'good, cool' is something that may have been re-invented in the UK (negative words have a way of being made positive in slangs), but it was certainly something I said in the 1980s in the US, <b>earlier than it was being used in UK</b>.</i><br /><br />I don't know where you got your data on British usage from, but I distinctly remember "wicked" being the "cool" word of choice when I was in junior school in the UK, (between 1982 and 1986), vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12741755308240158682015-09-17T12:09:57.332+01:002015-09-17T12:09:57.332+01:00Renee Descartes apparently coauthored a book in La...Renee Descartes apparently coauthored a book in Latin in the 1600s subtitled "de formatione foetus".<br /><br />Presumably this misspelling is older than the English language, if it even is a true misspelling. I wouldnt be surprised if medieval latin used the same spelling.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16784298034112057543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-87292210291510255742015-07-29T13:31:25.430+01:002015-07-29T13:31:25.430+01:00"Uni" was definitely used in Merseyside ..."Uni" was definitely used in Merseyside in the 70's, along with "poly" for polytechnics. When I moved to NZ in the mid 80's, the slang for university was "varsity". I would have thought NZ would be influenced by Aussie slang before the UK!<br /><br />stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07348817693141540409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-30860319958548371162015-07-24T23:07:03.020+01:002015-07-24T23:07:03.020+01:00Click here for today's Woman's Hour with a...Click here for <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b062ncyl" rel="nofollow">today's Woman's Hour</a> with an explanation of how cups became the norm in American recipes. Start at <b>23.28/42:26</b> — or simply click on the <b>Cooking measures</b> tab. <br /><br />Apparently it's all down to one woman, Fannie Farmer, and her incredibly popular 1896 <b>Boston Cooking-School Cook Book</b>. (Both she and it have Wikipedia entries.)David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-59453138968396961772015-06-25T16:28:29.850+01:002015-06-25T16:28:29.850+01:00Paul, Mrs Redboots
It was different for our mothe...Paul, Mrs Redboots<br /><br />It was different for our mothers. My mother was a terrific baker, but everything was based on a tiny number of pastry, cake and sponge recipes. So when she measured she could trust her instincts. <br /><br />They were in the first place <b>visual</b> i.e. she knew exactly what an ounce of flour or caster sugar <i><b>looked like</b></i> on a particular spoon. And, of course, she knew exactly what an ounce of margarine or butter or cooking fat looked like. Then she could trust her sense of <b>feel</b> as she incorporated the wet ingredients.<br /><br />Whether her ounces weighed exactly (or even approximately) an ounce or not is irrelevant. They were <b>consistent</b> measures.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-86425114490127327652015-06-24T21:47:22.053+01:002015-06-24T21:47:22.053+01:00We were taught that in school cookery classes, and...We were taught that in school cookery classes, and a level tablespoonful was supposed to be an ounce of sugar, but when I dish it out like that into a bowl on the scales, it never is! Alas....Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69066490452766865212015-06-24T21:18:15.568+01:002015-06-24T21:18:15.568+01:00I am reminded that my mother claimed to be able to...I am reminded that my mother claimed to be able to judge how rounded a tablespoon of various stuffs corresponded to an ounce. So, if the recipe required four ounces of flour she'd spoon in four tablespoons, each one the bulge of the flour above the level of the spoon was, she reckoned, just right to be one ounce.Paul Dormerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611343972547300193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-70671547902152832822015-06-23T13:45:31.177+01:002015-06-23T13:45:31.177+01:00A couple of notes on food stuff:
I don't think...A couple of notes on food stuff:<br />I don't think anyone has mentioned that US liquid measuring cups and dry measuring cups have slightly different volumes. I don't think that comes into play with the "Customary" and "legal" definitions mentioned above, since I think the difference is greater than that. <br /><br />Referring to pizza as "pie" is definitely an East Coast thing. It's heard elsewhere but is rare.<br /><br /> Kirk Poorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-8487510539181444842015-06-23T08:31:04.817+01:002015-06-23T08:31:04.817+01:00I have seen old-fashioned British recipes (probabl...I have seen old-fashioned British recipes (probably contributed by home cooks) which call for such things as "a breakfast-cup of flour", obviously meaning an ordinary cup pressed into service as a measure. Which reminds me of a story my father used to tell of his aunt saying "I know this cup holds x ounces" regardless of what ingredient she was measuring!Kate Buntinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17223976536411967222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-32635902359016956002015-06-23T02:30:37.087+01:002015-06-23T02:30:37.087+01:00"But I do use my teaspoon for sweetening and ..."But I do use my teaspoon for sweetening and stirring tea." "And tablespoons (here in the UK) are also known as serving spoons. Which is what you use them for."<br /><br />Although the quantities are the same, in North America these usually aren't the same things. I have actual spoons for eating (a tablespoon is the size of what I'd call a soup spoon; to me a serving spoon is larger and occasionally--though certainly not always--slotted), but the measuring spoons are a set unto themselves.<br /><br />Most commonly, measuring spoons are a nesting set (often circular) of various subsets of each kind (e.g. teaspoon, 1/2 tsp, 1/4 tsp), and you'd never use them for eating (unless you're really desperate :P). I'm sure traditionally people measured with actual spoons, but it's easier to get a consistent amount when you just have to level off the flat top of the little circle rather than eyeballing it on a slightly rounded regular spoon.<br /><br />Example 1: http://www.amazon.com/CIA-Masters-Collection-Piece-Measuring/dp/B000HV9HHY<br />Example 2: http://dopepicz.com/17279698-tupperware-measuring-cups-and-spoons.htmlLauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57786348154700670942015-06-22T23:36:43.773+01:002015-06-22T23:36:43.773+01:00Mrs Redboots
You only have to eat a pizza to know...Mrs Redboots<br /><br />You only have to <b>eat</b> a pizza to know that it's made from bread dough.<br /><br />I've baked a few pizzas in my time, but nowadays I find it not worth the effort. The crucial variable is the oven, and if you can't have a pizza oven, you're doomed. It can be fun doing the slinging-the-dough-around-your-head thing, but it leads to only moderate success.<br /><br />The Russians go in for dishes using yeast dough where we'd use pastry. My wife wan't to call <b>koulibyaka</b> a 'fish pie'. I'n not sure there's an appropriate BrE term — any more than there's a suitable term for <i>pizza</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-40742212326043160132015-06-22T21:16:04.301+01:002015-06-22T21:16:04.301+01:00And tablespoons (here in the UK) are also known as...And tablespoons (here in the UK) are also known as serving spoons. Which is what you use them for.<br /><br />To Bill: I don't think it's the efficiency that is called into question, but the accuracy - it is all too easy to overload or underload a measuring cup, which might be devastating to the resulting cake. Weighing removes the uncertainty. Plus it can be awkward. I was just reading <a href="http://chocolateandzucchini.com/recipes/cakes-tarts/aerial-chocolate-cake-ganache-glaze-recipe/" rel="nofollow">this delicious-sounding recipe</a>, but you will notice the faff when it comes to measuring the ingredients rather than weighing them. Of course, she could have scaled things up or down to avoid having to remove extraneous tablespoonsful of butter, etc....<br /><br />(N.B. To our American friends - it is not the fact of butter's having marks on the packaging - ours does that, too. It is the fact that a certain amount of butter is deemed a tablespoonful, rather than 25 or 50g which strikes us as peculiar. It wouldn't strike you as that, as you're used to it, but for us, a tablespoon, when not being used for serving vegetables, is used to measure liquids or, at a pinch, powders like sugar or flour, not solids like butter!)Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-44127983938938236402015-06-22T20:43:43.468+01:002015-06-22T20:43:43.468+01:00But I do use my teaspoon for sweetening and stirri...But I do use my teaspoon for sweetening and stirring tea.<br /><br />And for coffee and chocolate too, of course.Paul Dormerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611343972547300193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-78298772891667845632015-06-22T20:31:13.285+01:002015-06-22T20:31:13.285+01:00I just realized my entence above implied that I so...I just realized my entence above implied that I somehow have a drawer labeled 1/4 cup that would only hold my 1/4 cup measuring cups.<br /><br />I figure the intent gets through regardless, however this IS technically a linguistics discussion so I thought I clarified.<br /><br />I meant the CUP is in a drawer and the CUP is labeled 1/4.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-6436405510709623932015-06-22T20:28:18.951+01:002015-06-22T20:28:18.951+01:00In regards to the whole US measuring by volume thi...In regards to the whole US measuring by volume thing, I just think it is more efficient.<br /><br />Please note...a US'er here, so I won't deny a home bias...<br /><br />But for us, when a recipe needs 1/4 of a cup of flour, I just grab the "cup" out of the drawer labeled "1/4 cup" then scoop the flour and put it in the bowl. Same with Teaspoons and tablespoons...<br /><br />There's no pulling out a scale, scooping some flour, then pouring it onto the scale, adding some, maybe removing some then pouring it into the bowl. And that is assuming you are using some sort of digital scale that needs no calibrating or counter-balancing.<br /><br />I understand that there may be differences in the real world use that what I am picturing. And even if I am picturing the most efficient version (which is a large digital scale that you leave the bowl on top of and then just do the math as you add things) it still seems like a whole extra bit of work that could easily be avoided by using the volume version of things.<br /><br />I just wonder (aside from the pet peeve of the naming conventions "Why is it called a teaspoon when it has nothing to do with tea?!") what the positives might be.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-43991802052649626922015-06-22T19:27:28.184+01:002015-06-22T19:27:28.184+01:00David Crosbie:
1. Yes. I've heard of a Birm...David Crosbie:<br /><br />1. Yes. I've heard of a Birmingham screwdriver too.<br /><br />2. I've never heard it called a tart. But you can eat a slice held in the fingers.<br /><br />enitharmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829757748223670291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-27428064170656432292015-06-22T19:25:54.864+01:002015-06-22T19:25:54.864+01:00@David Crosbie:
A pizza is dry and has no lid
You...@David Crosbie:<br /><i>A pizza is dry and has no lid</i><br /><br />You may be unaware of this, but a pizza, although Americans call it a pie, is not made from pastry, but from bread dough. <br /><br />@enitharmon:<br /><br />I would use "Steak and kidney pie" to cover both that dish made at home with a pastry lid and the kind you can buy (which never have enough kidney) with pastry underneath as well. So it may be a regional difference. But I would never refer to pizza as a pie, though; it is a different animal altogether! Elizabeth David classes it with lardy cake as "Things done with left-over bread dough", though how right she is, I don't know. Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42600773271423592152015-06-22T19:14:10.989+01:002015-06-22T19:14:10.989+01:00enitharmon
1. Have you not heard of a top-crust p...enitharmon<br /><br />1. Have you not heard of a <b>top-crust pie</b>?<br /><br />2 I have no difficulty referring to that dessert as a <b>lemon meringue tart</b>. As a <i>'pie'</i> it's just an anomalous exception.<br /><br />Still, we haven't yet found a definition that will take in <b>mud pies</b>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36436472628070183272015-06-22T19:05:25.261+01:002015-06-22T19:05:25.261+01:00Dru: but it's still a pie if it's in a bow...Dru: <i>but it's still a pie if it's in a bowl, dish or whatever, with just a top</i><br /><br />I don't think that this is a regional or transnational difference but it is a contentious point: a stew with a covering of pastry is <i>so</i> not a pie! It's a stew with a covering of pastry. I'd like to think that a pie is something that you can hold in your fingers to eat, though that gets a bit difficult sometimes with some of the messier fillings for the kind of larger pie that is sliced into portions but a steak and kidney pie is still a steak and kidney pie and the individual steak and kidney pies sold round here can be eaten in the fingers even if you need something to catch the drips. <br /><br />I'm not sure where a lemon meringue pie fits in. If it's not a pie I don't know what it is. It can be eaten with the fingers though.<br />enitharmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829757748223670291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-80234108529182360892015-06-22T18:53:35.047+01:002015-06-22T18:53:35.047+01:00Beth, I don't think anybody is saying that mea...Beth, I don't think anybody is saying that measuring dry ingredients by volume is <b><i>wrong</i></b>, but many of us find it 'weird and confusing' — <i><b>to us</b></i>.<br /><br />Many recipes call for balanced quantities of flour, sugar and butter. But we measure those things by weight, so the balance is rather different if you measure them by volume.<br /><br />For example a US cup of sugar weighs 190g or 6.7oz, while a US cup of flour weighs (at the lower end of the range) 120g or 4.2 oz. (At the upper end of the range a cup of flour weighs 140g or 5oz.)<br /><br />So equal cups of flour and sugar produce a different mixture from equal weights — half a pound, for example — of flour and sugar.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83432483795902243822015-06-22T17:45:09.207+01:002015-06-22T17:45:09.207+01:00In the US we measure things in the kitchen (for th...In the US we measure things in the kitchen (for the most part) in cups, teaspoons and tablespoons. It's not weird or confusing or wrong, as some of you claim, it is very straightforward to us because that is the way the our recipes are written and have been written for decades. A "cup" is NOT a teacup but an actual official measurement just like a "teaspoon" isn't a spoon used for tea. Most every kitchen has a set of measuring cups and measuring spoons. Butter usually comes in sticks, 4 to the pound package, with very clear measurement markings on each wrapper. Simply cut off the amount you need for your recipe. It's really very simple, folks. Bethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69702446982576963962015-06-22T16:37:33.952+01:002015-06-22T16:37:33.952+01:00Bliss it was to sing:
the company, the brewer, th...Bliss it was to sing:<br /><br /><i>the company, the brewer, the drayer,<br />the slavey, the daughter, the landlady. the landlord,<br />the barrel, the half-barrel,<br />the gallon, the half-gallon, <br />quart pot, pint pot,<br />half-a-pint, gill pot<br />half-a-gill, quarter-gill,<br />nipperkin anner and bowl</i> (?and a brown bowl)<br /><i>Here's good luck.good luck, good luck to the barley mow</i>David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.com