tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post8650908242822459462..comments2024-03-16T00:21:43.240+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: icing and frostinglynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-89004760157893538902015-04-17T12:30:33.847+01:002015-04-17T12:30:33.847+01:00Christian
You used to be able to subscribe to Blo...Christian<br /><br />You used to be able to subscribe to Blogger posts, but Google scrapped that facility. There are apps which allow you to subscribe to various things including Blogger postings. I use one called on called <b>Leaf</b>. It works fine for me, so i can recommend it. But there again you might find something that suits you better.<br /><br />I think what lies at the heart of all this is that <i>icing</i> and <i>frosting</i> have become semantically divorced from <i>ice</i> and <i>frost</i>. <br /><br />When I hear the word <i>icing</i> I think of a sugar-based cake topping at room temperature. Only if I hear <i>icing on the wings</i> do I connect the word with actual ice.<br /><br />As far as I can tell, the same obtains for this who use the word <i>frosting</i>. Some think of what i call icing. Some think of what I call sort-of butter icing. Some think of both.<br /><br />Confusion comes if you hear a word you're <i><b>not</b></i> used to. Until recently I was completely unused to the word <i>frosting</i> so when I heard it I associated it with <i>frost</i>. I guessed that it must be something thinner and less opaque than <i>icing</i> — even when it obviously referred to some sort of cake topping.<br /><br />I think there must be other British English speakers like me and that some suppliers of cakes an cake recipes are aware of us. So they don't use the American term <i>frosting</i> but they don't use the single word <i>icing</i> either for that thick stuff which is similar to but probably not the same as our <i>butter icing</i>.<br /><br />I think the position on the cake of the <i>icing/frosting</i> has become irrelevant. You keep the name even when when you put it somewhere other than the top. When i was a little boy my favourite of my mother;'s cakes was a chocolate sandwich sponge with the same chocolate butter icing (?=frosting) covering the top and also (spread more thinly together with a spread of jam) between the slices.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-31087712114313623002015-04-17T06:10:32.389+01:002015-04-17T06:10:32.389+01:00@lynnguist and @David_Crosbie, thanks for the repl...@lynnguist and @David_Crosbie, thanks for the replies! (I still don't know how to configure blogger to follow individual posts and replies, so sorry for the delay). <br /><br />Both explanations make sense to me, and I would imagine that both occur. What doesn't -- entirely -- work is using "frosting" or "icing" to describe what's going on with that yogurt cake. I'm realizing that for me at least, both words imply that that the top *and sides* of the cake are covered. The delightfully misnamed Boston Cream Pie is naked on the sides, but its topping is a glaze, not a frosting/icing. Seems weirdly out of proportion to have a very thick buttery-cream-cheesy-slab atop a single layer of cake....Christian Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561529462675001889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55501707834098928572015-04-16T10:22:16.392+01:002015-04-16T10:22:16.392+01:00David--that person's use may have been idiosyn...David--that person's use may have been idiosyncratic. I'm still with you on the meaning of 'frost'. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-81780022650629816452015-04-16T10:22:15.369+01:002015-04-16T10:22:15.369+01:00David--that person's use may have been idiosyn...David--that person's use may have been idiosyncratic. I'm still with you on the meaning of 'frost'. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71350244884335972442015-04-15T19:49:56.327+01:002015-04-15T19:49:56.327+01:00Lynne
OK, I was misled by a google hit which I th...Lynne<br /><br />OK, I was misled by a google hit which I thought was describing the stuff on the <b>side</b> of tree trunks as frost. It looked like frozen snow to me.<br /><br />My basic problem is that I see <i>frost</i> as something no thicker than a millimetre. This may be a generational thing.<br /><br />I don't really have a word to describe the thick white stuff that accumulates in parts of a fridge. It doesn't feel like <i>frost</i> to me, but I suppose that's what you call it.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-69561679366080591152015-04-14T22:19:45.272+01:002015-04-14T22:19:45.272+01:00David--that's exactly how I'd use 'fro...David--that's exactly how I'd use 'frost' in AmE. Frozen snow is just snow. Or ice. lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56314553631214441162015-04-14T18:18:28.517+01:002015-04-14T18:18:28.517+01:00I think frosted icing is a way of getting across t...I think <i>frosted icing</i> is a way of getting across the idea of American <b>frosting</b> to Brits who don't really know what it means, but do understand the word <i>icing</i>.<br /><br />When I was a boy what my mother put on cakes was either <i>icing</i> or <i>butter icing</i>. I suppose what she she actually used was margarine until the end of butter rationing in the fifties.<br /><br />Too me, that recipe in Lynne's link uses 'butter icing with cream cheese instead of butter'.<br /><br />I'd guess that the reason <i>frosting</i> hasn't caught on more here is that <i><b>frost</b></i> in Britain is a word used for frozen condensation on a surface, not for frozen snow. I suspect wasn't alone in expecting (until told otherwise) that <i>frosting</i> was something <b>thinner</b> than icing.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-90407295069803074072015-04-14T11:51:18.030+01:002015-04-14T11:51:18.030+01:00It might mean that it's applied with a knife, ...It might mean that it's applied with a knife, in the style of American frosting, rather than being rolled on (like royal icing) or a glaze. <br /><br /><a href="https://www.tv3.ie/food_article.php?article=487" rel="nofollow">I found another example (from Ireland) here with a photo.</a>lynneguisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-74701551633092871072015-04-14T05:22:39.011+01:002015-04-14T05:22:39.011+01:00If anyone still notices these older posts anymore ...If anyone still notices these older posts anymore -- a question. I'm an American, booked on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway's "Pullman Dining Service" for the end of May. We *may* be celebrating my partner's birthday then so I looked into the railway's "<a href="http://www.nymr.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2015-Pullman-Gifts-Treats.pdf" rel="nofollow">Gifts and Treats</a>" menu, which includes this description:<br /><br /><b>Homemade Carrot Cake with <i>Frosted Icing</i> - £17.50</b>. <br /><br />Um, what?! I'm one of those Americans for whom frosting and icing are interchangeable (what New Englanders distinguish as "icing" I would call a "heavy glaze"). Any guesses on what the combination might mean?<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Oh, and PS on cooked frosting/icing. My grandmother was inordinately fond of something called "7-minute icing/frosting," which I remember as too toothachingly sweet even for my 8-year-old self. It's very much like a meringue. Martha Stewart provides a version <a href="http://www.marthastewart.com/344305/seven-minute-frosting" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Christian Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17561529462675001889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-47353775860553321362013-11-02T19:37:46.150+00:002013-11-02T19:37:46.150+00:00In Canada, the term "frosting" is unders...In Canada, the term "frosting" is understood, but never spoken of as such. This is due mainly to US-based canned frosting that's been on the market for about the past 30 years. However, one "ices" a cake with this tinned "frosting", and the finished product, either home-made or store-bought, is called icing.<br /><br />My Canadian-born mother of Eastern European extraction never called it "frosting". It's always been called icing in my extended family.<br /><br />Incidentally, in Canada there's also no such thing as confectioner's sugar. It's always been marketed as icing sugar, as it is in the UK and Australia. It's likely a Commonwealth thing. I had to Google it to find out what it was.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13337889266374584132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-10426622814576173472013-11-02T19:36:07.889+00:002013-11-02T19:36:07.889+00:00In Canada, the term "frosting" is unders...In Canada, the term "frosting" is understood, but never spoken of as such. This is due mainly to US-based canned frosting that's been on the market for about the past 30 years. However, one "ices" a cake with this tinned "frosting", and the finished product, either home-made or store-bought, is called icing.<br /><br />My Canadian-born mother of Eastern European extraction never called it "frosting". It's always been called icing in my extended family.<br /><br />Incidentally, in Canada there's also no such thing as confectioner's sugar. It's always been marketed as icing sugar, as it is in the UK and Australia. It's likely a Commonwealth thing. I had to Google it to find out what it was.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13337889266374584132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-51350884989282715122013-02-03T23:05:24.624+00:002013-02-03T23:05:24.624+00:00As a lifetime inhabitant of the states and fluent ...As a lifetime inhabitant of the states and fluent speaker of AmE, the difference in "frosting" and "icing" has always been as simple as northerners say "frosting" and southerners say "icing" to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-42056368687217532062012-10-20T14:00:59.100+01:002012-10-20T14:00:59.100+01:00I grew up (in New England) with the glaze/icing/fr...I grew up (in New England) with the glaze/icing/frosting distinction, and the stuff you put on cakes generally called frosting. That being said, the idiom was always "that's just icing on the cake," and looking at Google search results on US websites, that seems to be typical. 'Frosting' gets about 42 million hits on US websites, whereas 'icing' gets 45 million - so pretty even (and it's worth remembering that people who use 'frosting' for cakes may still using 'icing' for other purposes, so the 'icing' numbers may be inflated). "Just frosting on the cake" only gets 225,000 hits, however, while "just icing on the cake" gets over 4.7 million. So despite regional differences in terminology, the idiom is largely unaffected.<br /><br />And just to cover what the regional differences are, the American Heritage Dictionary notes, "Although the terms <i>frosting</i> and <i>icing</i> are both in widespread use, people in New England, the Upper Midwest, and the Western United States tend to put <i>frosting</i> on cake. In Pennsylvania, New Jersey, the Lower Midwest, and the South, the preferred term is <i>icing</i>. There is some overlap, especially in upstate New York, Michigan, and California, but the regions in which the two words predominate are surprisingly distinct. Some in the South call it <i>filling</i>, even when it goes on top."<br /><br />@Mo: The term 'frosting' is not a recent invasion. According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, it's been around since 1756. 'Icing' isn't all that much older, having first appeared in 1723.Gracehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14644859183662353936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16929898593111491702012-08-24T17:36:32.396+01:002012-08-24T17:36:32.396+01:00For as long as I can remember I've enjoyed eat...For as long as I can remember I've enjoyed eating and later making cakes topped and filled with butter icing – butter and icing sugar creamed together and flavoured with vanilla essence, coffee or lemon juice – so the idea of a fat-based cake covering isn't a particularly recent introduction. Butter icing isn't the same as buttercream; butter icing is quite firm while buttercream is much softer, although it is also used for embellishing cakes.<br /><br />enitharmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829757748223670291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-88834900807990725132012-04-30T21:17:22.174+01:002012-04-30T21:17:22.174+01:00frosting reminds me of the victoria sponge with a ...frosting reminds me of the victoria sponge with a doily used for the pattern on the top and just icing sugar powder to make the pattern that the doily will produce from the open pattern in the doilyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24956736541800098492011-07-26T21:35:42.632+01:002011-07-26T21:35:42.632+01:00I'm from NY and I've always used the term ...I'm from NY and I've always used the term "icing", while frosting isn't necessarily odd, I've heard both and never assumed "frosting" was used more on the other side of the pond.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-83851504974503087152010-01-04T00:07:37.666+00:002010-01-04T00:07:37.666+00:00I love to bake, so I found this topic very interes...I love to bake, so I found this topic very interesting. I have to disagree with the people who said Americans don't have "icing" or caster sugar.<br /><br />I'm an American and my Mom (who's in her 60s) is from WV, though I grew up in CO. So I don't know if it's a Southern thing, but we called any substance used in or on a cake "icing." (And used the phrase "icing on the cake," which no one's mentioned yet.) Mom only made two kinds of cake when I was growing up, one had what's properly called a ganache I think, made in the blender with (granulated) sugar, a can of evaporated milk, and unsweetened chocolate, which we called "chocolate icing." The other cake had a glaze made of powdered sugar and orange juice, which we called "icing." We also (occasionally) bought cupcakes from the grocery store, which used the icky hydrogenated-oil-and-powdered-sugar icing mentioned by Anonymous (1st comment) and Elizabeth. I only learned to call things "frosting" after being exposed to the Betty Crocker frosting in a plastic container that goes along with cake mixes from a box (which I always thought was gross, because yes, we baked everything from scratch in our house). And when I got older and started baking a lot more, I learned the standard American culinary school definitions already described by Elizabeth. A recipe for a buche de noel I use from a cookbook with an American author calls for a "buttercream frosting" made with egg whites, sugar, butter, and brandy, but I still call it icing and I "ice" cakes, I don't "frost" them.<br /><br />And we do have caster sugar, but we don't call it that. I've seen it packaged as "super-fine sugar" and is granulated sugar, not powdered sugar (which often has an anti-caking agent of some kind in it). I've used it to make spun-sugar decorations and it's also used for making hard candy.Susiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01581886448180938224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-72493297255628004282009-12-31T09:02:55.344+00:002009-12-31T09:02:55.344+00:00@solo:
I'm not sure why "TV" should...@solo:<br /><br />I'm not sure why "TV" should sound American to you. <br /><br />A <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tv+site%3Auk&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=" rel="nofollow">Google search</a> finds more than 100 times as many hits for "TV" in the .uk domain, as <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=telly+site%3Auk&aq=f&oq=&aqi=" rel="nofollow"> for "telly"</a>. <br /><br />It's true that "telly" is, in general, only used in Britain, while "TV" is shared by both British and Americans -- but then so are most words in the English language.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-11742253691960515802009-12-30T02:09:39.018+00:002009-12-30T02:09:39.018+00:00Okay so if it didn't have butter in it at all ...Okay so if it didn't have butter in it at all was it just Italian Meringue or did it have other stuff in it? It must have something else in it since Italian Meringue wouldn't set up like that unless you torched it. Honestly I'm really curious as I spend way too much time thinking about baking. Besides while one could use it to ice a cake, I wouldn't call that icing/frosting of any kind, just meringue.<br /><br />My point was merely that both had a country name attached to them, but Italy and the US, not exactly the same place.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708599658301706496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-57638866392398703562009-12-29T11:23:01.796+00:002009-12-29T11:23:01.796+00:00"Anyway, I'm curious if you put something..."Anyway, I'm curious if you put something like this on plum puddings, those of you, any of you, who have plum pudding, and what you call it. It seems to have many of the same ingredients of various icings frostings that have been mentioned."<br /><br />It's called brandy butter here - you melt a spoonful on to hot Christmas (plum) pudding, but honestly, what is delicious but far too rich is to spread some on a slice of cold Christmas pudding next day - Boxing Day treat, that used to be! It doesn't go on cake, as it has too much butter and not enough sugar to count as an icing rather than a sauce.<br /><br />@biochemist - my sister rather horrified me by producing bought brandy butter, but her family actually prefer custard on theirs (strange people) so perhaps she was pandering to my father's and husband's tastes!Mrs Redboots (Annabel Smyth)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11270027663691257254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-21345813870734743252009-12-29T10:49:55.978+00:002009-12-29T10:49:55.978+00:00Um, Elizabeth, that 'American icing' conta...Um, Elizabeth, that 'American icing' contains no butter - the hot syrup cooks the egg white and so it's a kind of meringue, but since it sets quickly one has to work fast to get it on the cake. I'm almost tempted to try it myself to see what happens!<br />Why would we call it 'American'? Perhaps the profligate use of egg whites ... the mid 20th-C UK diet contained a lot of sugar (to provide energy in a world without central heating) but we were always very careful to use up spare yolks or whites of eggs.biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-41564456738330480602009-12-29T02:55:03.482+00:002009-12-29T02:55:03.482+00:00Growing up (in Sydney, Australia), we always toppe...Growing up (in Sydney, Australia), we always topped our cakes with icing (made with icing sugar and water), but occasionally we were specially allowed to ice a chocolate cake with frosting, which we made with icing sugar (and cocoa) and butter, creamed together.<br /><br />When we moved to the USA in 2003, the term "frosting" applied to what I had always known as frosting, and the term "icing" did not appear to exist!<br /><br />People in my circles do not seem to ice cakes any more - it's all frosting these days!Mrs Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05655632448285928588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-2417482174572249682009-12-29T00:22:49.813+00:002009-12-29T00:22:49.813+00:00@biochemist
That's really funny that it's...@biochemist<br /><br />That's really funny that it's called American Icing, because that's exactly what I would call an Italian Buttercream.<br /><br />Though for the record the egg whites are cooked and it is perfectly safe to leave such a buttercream out for a few days.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02215839051185974104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-77459381537625256462009-12-28T20:23:16.119+00:002009-12-28T20:23:16.119+00:00Just back from a few days with the Aged Parents (D...Just back from a few days with the Aged Parents (Dickens ref!) for Christmas, I was about to report that my mother now has the 40th edition of the Be-Ro booklet (from Morrison's supermarket, now contains references to microwaves and freezers) when I saw that the icing/frosting discussion has moved on to hard sauce. <br /><br />According to my recipe book for catering students, hard sauce contains ground almonds, vanilla essence, butter and icing sugar: brandy butter is a variation in which the spirit replaces the almonds. The supermarkets also sell brandy cream for Christmas - but (in parallel to cake-baking) why would you buy something with only those two ingredients instead of whipping it up at home?!<br /><br />This book also contains a recipe for 'American icing' in which a stiffly-whisked egg white is mixed into a hot sugar syrup, so it's no wonder that it must be used quickly. Gosh.biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-91810890708408568062009-12-28T15:47:40.193+00:002009-12-28T15:47:40.193+00:00Well, Ros, now you know me. I bake exclusively fro...Well, Ros, now you know me. I bake exclusively from scratch. Why would I use a mix when I have everything I need for cake on my pantry shelves? And I don't know anybody who gasps in amazement when told that their cake I made is from scratch, so I can't be alone in this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com