tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post9086495227423576390..comments2024-03-28T16:11:36.465+00:00Comments on Separated by a Common Language: protesting prepositionslynneguisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10171345732985610861noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-92179811795850247012022-02-21T10:54:27.636+00:002022-02-21T10:54:27.636+00:00I (non-native English speaker, so neither BrE nor ...I (non-native English speaker, so neither BrE nor AmE) hadn't heard "protest at" before, but understood it as the direction in which your protest is going: Like you might throw stones at something, you protest at something. Of course "at" can also mean location, so you could do something "in protest at cuts at the University of Sussex"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13116924969459393682019-07-05T10:11:19.044+01:002019-07-05T10:11:19.044+01:00Sisyphus11 December, 2017 20:47
Agreed, although I...Sisyphus11 December, 2017 20:47<br />Agreed, although I think Brits tend to use 'at' for an event and 'against' for a state of affairs. The BBC, which is doing its best to destroy 'Britishness,' is promoting the transitive use - people are frequently 'protesting cuts.'<br /><br />That's unfair - The BBC editorial style guide specifically tells journalists to use the word 'against'... the problem they have is when copy is picked up from say Reuters, where the 'against' word is left out, and lazy sub-editors don't know or bother to correct it. The Guardian and Independent newspaper style guides also promote the 'protest against' style.balbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01101176766086347030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-13367747275711222022017-12-12T13:28:19.990+00:002017-12-12T13:28:19.990+00:00I suppose I'm feeling a grammatical distinctio...I suppose I'm feeling a grammatical distinction: <br /><br />TRANSITIVE TWO-WORD VERB: <i>protest at</i><br /><br />INTRANSITIVE VERB + PREPOSITION: <i>protest against</i><br /><br />This seems to be a pretty loosely-based feeling. It may well change in future if I hear more and more people saying <i>protest against</i>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36121338516865336882017-12-12T00:56:02.744+00:002017-12-12T00:56:02.744+00:00Maybe, but I personally use at for a sate of affai...Maybe, but I personally use <i>at</i> for a sate of affairs.<br /><br /><br /> e.g. <i>They're not celebrating, they're protesting.</i><br /><br />If the prepositional phrase is an afterthought, then <i>against</i> might not sound too bad.<br /><br />That said, I would not feel comfortable with <i>against</i> after the NOUN<br /><br />e.g. *in protest against<br /><br />People on the BBC who say <i>protesting cuts</i> can't possibly have any desire to destroy Britishness. They're just <i><b>younger</b></i> than us.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36691430746934059602017-12-11T20:47:11.954+00:002017-12-11T20:47:11.954+00:00Agreed, although I think Brits tend to use 'at...Agreed, although I think Brits tend to use 'at' for an event and 'against' for a state of affairs. The BBC, which is doing its best to destroy 'Britishness,' is promoting the transitive use - people are frequently 'protesting cuts.'Sisyphushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02650372666915304667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56559983175817979192015-03-26T01:54:10.965+00:002015-03-26T01:54:10.965+00:00I didn't twig that there was a protest thread ...I didn't twig that there was a <b>protest thread</b> so I posted on the <a href="http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/by-cash.html?showComment=1427330558249" rel="nofollow">by cash</a> thread.<br /><br />Summary: <br />• For me the one-word verb <b>protest</b> is always INTRANSITIVE — except in <i>protest one's innocence.</i><br />• The related TRANSITIVE item is the two-word verb <b>protest at</b>.David Crosbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01858358459416955921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-55568143153375814762010-04-10T04:25:51.387+01:002010-04-10T04:25:51.387+01:00In my AmE, you protest against something unless it...In my AmE, you protest against something unless it's specified as in favor of something, such as "they protested for the right to vote/equal rights/etc."<br /><br />You (or one), can/may rally for or against something.<br /><br />As for in or at, my usage is "in" except for when "in" makes no sense. For example, I could have a house in the country, or in a city, but the house would have to be "at the lake" never "in" it, unless there was a flood.<br /><br />.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-79522743996815514262010-03-28T00:27:06.945+00:002010-03-28T00:27:06.945+00:00Apologies for the double post- OpenID has a headac...Apologies for the double post- OpenID has a headache.<br /><br />Unreserved apologies for misspelling 'their'. I have no excuse for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-36709788741291946722010-03-28T00:25:15.132+00:002010-03-28T00:25:15.132+00:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71106556339621386652010-03-28T00:24:50.116+00:002010-03-28T00:24:50.116+00:00If I heard there was 'a protest', particul...If I heard there was 'a protest', particularly at Sussex, I envisage a crowd of hippies, with banners and picket signs, shouting at the indifferent face of the administration building, whilst looking nervously over there shoulders for a sneak attack by the riot police. So abstract noun as well as the other things.<br /><br />Incidentally, I'd argue that BrE has both sub-editors and copy-editors who do slightly different things and many magazines/papers will employ people to do both.<br /><br />Oh and that picture is bloody adorable. I'll click on German Language training and top UK MBAs just for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35212305044338059842010-03-25T22:38:05.087+00:002010-03-25T22:38:05.087+00:00Yes, both examples were in UK publications - I wou...Yes, both examples were in UK publications - I would normally expect the intransitive construction. Just wondered why a noun is converted into a transitive verb. Even 'to appeal/ to protest' is an elision.biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-71325608707113227162010-03-25T17:29:07.664+00:002010-03-25T17:29:07.664+00:00Biochemist: AmE allows "appeal" to be a ...Biochemist: AmE allows "appeal" to be a transitive verb the same way it allows "protest" to be a transitive verb. BrE, indeed, doesn't, and therefore BrE speakers do indeed have to appeal <i>against</i> somethingTerry Collmannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24539545679598856572010-03-25T13:57:18.852+00:002010-03-25T13:57:18.852+00:00Twice today I have read about plaintiffs who inten...Twice today I have read about plaintiffs who intend to 'appeal the decision'. <br />It's like 'protest' - surely one would <br />a) lodge an appeal against<br />b) (make an) appeal against/about.<br /><br />Are there other noun/verbs with this construction?biochemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34290511135671997242010-03-22T11:14:43.392+00:002010-03-22T11:14:43.392+00:00Andy JS (rather OT) -
I've always thought it w...Andy JS (rather OT) -<br />I've always thought it was "in" a city but "at" a smaller place. I picked up this idea from the piano exams I took as a child. The books of set pieces used to say, for instance "W.A. Mozart, born at Salzburg 1756, died in Vienna 1791" (if I've remembered the dates correctly!)<br /><br />Kate (Derby, UK)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-12012385492144531982010-03-21T22:58:06.814+00:002010-03-21T22:58:06.814+00:00Esha, where are you from and where do you live?Esha, where are you from and where do you live?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18388536648865260040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-4123510028379833192010-03-21T22:35:24.069+00:002010-03-21T22:35:24.069+00:00I'm American, and use PROtest for the noun and...I'm American, and use PROtest for the noun and proTEST for the verb. There are probably regional differences within the U.S.Eshanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-85161212162229172412010-03-21T17:34:17.494+00:002010-03-21T17:34:17.494+00:00It's interesting that the form "at X"...It's interesting that the form "at X" where X is a place, such as "at Cheltenham", used to be common in a lot of situations in British English but in the last few decades seems to have become slightly archaic. These days one would usually use "in" rather than "at".<br /><br />For example, people in the past would say something like "we have another house at Cheltenham", but now they would probably say "we have another house in Cheltenham".<br /><br />I don't know whether "in" has always been used in America in this context.Andy JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15819413906544791899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-34480749447012070632010-03-21T11:33:11.946+00:002010-03-21T11:33:11.946+00:00I've always assumed 'protesting too much&#...I've always assumed 'protesting too much' was not that the lady was agreeing, but that she was so strongly against something, it was beginning to look suspicious (as with someone being strongly homophobic to cover up their own closeted feelings). But I have to admit I wasn't actually aware the phrase came from Hamlet (oh the shame) so haven't read it in contexttownmousehttp://cityexile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-24120891301314952372010-03-21T08:34:53.736+00:002010-03-21T08:34:53.736+00:00This discussion is not helped by the fact that &qu...This discussion is not helped by the fact that "protest" seems to have a secondary meaning almost opposite to the main meaning, ie an affirmation rather than a dissent. I think this is more than just choice of preposition. My Oxford Reference Dictionary shows protest (intransitive verb; dissent) before protest (transitive verb; affirmation).<br /><br />"The lady doth protest too much" in Hamlet, means, arguably, affirm rather than dissent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-35652923368548112232010-03-21T07:07:47.378+00:002010-03-21T07:07:47.378+00:00Well you can protest for something in American Eng...Well you can protest for something in American English, but yes without specifying it's assumed you're protesting against. Though I think many Americans, myself included, would most likely say rally in that case.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708599658301706496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-3096975861604387402010-03-20T16:16:43.531+00:002010-03-20T16:16:43.531+00:00I'm always confused by the American transitive...I'm always confused by the American transitive verb usage. In the sentence 'Lynne protested the cuts' I can't tell if Lynne was in favour or against cuts. In BrEng you can protest for or against something. It looks as if in USEng you can only protest against.Eleanor Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09136803029596515777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-16005301727286159572010-03-20T09:56:29.322+00:002010-03-20T09:56:29.322+00:00Hmmm....one can proTEST one's innocence, but t...Hmmm....one can proTEST one's innocence, but the crowd is PROtesting outside. I tie the stress to the meaning on the word.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14376545097377854998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-56013166610115953902010-03-19T18:08:06.175+00:002010-03-19T18:08:06.175+00:00@vp "AmE, but not BrE, permits "protest&...@vp "AmE, but not BrE, permits "protest" as a transitive verb"<br /><br />We do have 'protest one's innocence', but I think that's the only transitive usage natural in BrE.Shaun Clarksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16290670832534929741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-60350468859916384242010-03-19T18:07:54.633+00:002010-03-19T18:07:54.633+00:00Another transatlantic distinction in the word &quo...Another transatlantic distinction in the word "protest" is in the word's meaning. <br /><br />Traditionally one can only protest <i>against</i> something or someone. But occasionally in AmE one hears the word used in a positive fashion -- e.g. "The crowd protested in favor of the President". This makes the word roughly synonymous with "demonstrate".<br /><br />I don't think this usage is yet fully accepted in AmE, but it seems increasingly common. A Google search for <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22protested%20in%20favor%20of%22&hl=en&ned=us&tab=nw" rel="nofollow">"protested in favor of"</a> get almost a million hits.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28787909.post-66634468756585125272010-03-19T18:00:08.408+00:002010-03-19T18:00:08.408+00:00@A.N.M.
Like Cameron, I (putting my BrE hat on) w...@A.N.M.<br /><br />Like Cameron, I (putting my BrE hat on) would say "proTEST" for the verb and "PROtest" for the noun. I've never heard "proTEST" for the noun in BrE. <br /><br />As you say, AmE has "PROtest" for both.<br /><br />John Wells's Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (1st ed) agrees with all this, and also gives "PROtest" as an alternative for the verb in BrE. I've never heard that.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.com