Separated by a Common Language

As an Australian English speaker "front bum" is also possible as a reference to female genitals. But the interesting part is, I've heard it used as a derogatory term for groups of females, e.g. "a bunch of front-bums".

I haven't looked it up in the dictionary so I'm not sure if this is a recognised usage. All I've got is anecdotal evidence.

Oh and great blog by the way, it's become one of my favorites to read.

There's an episode of the Simpsons in which Marge buys Bart and Lisa matching "fanny packs" and then goes on to exclaim "Now your fannies match!". Tee hee hee.

That's wonderful, Lynne, thank you very much!

I should have thought about looking the matter up in Wikipedia, but it just hadn't crossed my mind that it would be covered there (therefore not strictly a case of CBATW* in this case! :-) )

* if that's not an Internet shorthand, it is now!

I would always pronounce the R in arse, but that might be because of my accent. I've used CBA as an acronym for years, especially on IM programmes.

Thanks for the comments--they're arriving at record speed. Now I know what really interests people!

Front bum seems to be used in the UK too--I see a Leeds teenager has chosen it has her myspace name (charming...). 1370 .uk hits, 287 .au hits, 124 .nz hits. Taking into consideration the populations of these countries (and assuming they're equally wired), New Zealanders are the most prolific users of the term. Australians come bottom (heh-heh), but since the UK is full of Australians and NZers, perhaps they're boosting the UK numbers. (Did you know that 20% of NZ's population lives overseas?) On sites that seem to have British authorship, there's a sense that front bum is babytalk--something said by or to children.

Hm. It seems the way to guarantee a slow-down of comments is to comment on how fast the comments are coming in!

There was a British tv show called Bottom in the mid-90's (I think). I'm not sure what the title referred to exactly. Maybe it was just that the characters were hard-luck cases and so were at the "bottom" in terms of society. But I always wondered if it wasn't a wink to the other meaning as well (knowing the British love of scatological humor).

There's definitely a scatalogical link. This is what the BBC says about Bottom:

"Bottom was intentionally and unashamedly juvenile, with even its title pointing to the schoolboy nature of its humour. Mayall and Edmondson had originally named the show Your Bottom and delighted in the double entendres that it might present (eg, 'I saw Your Bottom on television last night'), but, eventually, they settled on the more succinct Bottom and instead derived pleasure from the suffixed episode titles (eg, Bottom: Smells, and Bottom: 's Up).)"

I didn't know that "arse" could be used as a verb.

And of course, as happens (I guess?) to all us Americans, I've made the "fanny" error...and was swiftly corrected by my now-husby, looking at me with a slightly red face!

Janet

Coming from Lori's blog.

I knew Fanny means something in BrE but didn't know exactly what. Thanks for the enlightenment :)

I wonder who Fanny Mae would advertise in UK:
"Fanny Mae: We accommodate everything. Big,small or balloon [loans]"

As a Scot I am constantly regretting the reality that "ass" seems to be steadily repacing "arse" over here; I find "arse" to be a FAR superior swear word, what with its extra consonant and everything. I also much prefer the Scottish (and north east of England) "shite" to the relatively feeble "shit."

As far as "fanny" is concerned, I learned Scottish Gaelic at school, and my teacher, a highlander, always clearly used "fanny" to mean "arse", and greatly enjoyed teling red-faced twelve year old boys to "sit on your fanny," to which he would often be told angrily "I haven't GOT a fanny," the clear assumption being that Mr. MacVicar was an old hick who had no idea what he was saying. Anyway, my assumption from that was that "fanny" was once used here with the same meaning as it now has in Leftpondia, at least in the Scottish highlands.

on the subject of why americans may think that it is the brits who have added, rather than them who have taken away, it is probable to me that many americans (of course not yourself, nor any of your well travelled countrymen) believe themselves and their country to be the originator of everything. this is something we all know not to be true, however, i have borne witness on several occasions to american tourists asking guides whether 'boston' (UK) is named after 'boston' (US), 'bristol' (UK) is named after 'bristol' (US) and perhaps most alarmingly whether 'york' (UK) is named after 'new york' (US) (!)

arse > ass is one of just a few survivors of an 18th-century incipient sound-change rs > ss that mostly got reversed in AmE.

The others I know of offhand are:passel (AmE informal) 'a large amount' < parcel, cuss < curse, and bust < burst, where the sound-changed form differs in meaning or at least in register; hoss < horse and a good many others have been lost.

There are British dialects that (probably independently) have this feature too; borrowings from them into the standard language account for bass, the fish < OE bærss, and (by way of hypercorrection) the intrusive r in parsnip.

Sorry, that second s in bærs doesn't belong there. One r, one s.

A new American reader here, making my way through your interesting and entertaining blog from the beginning after being pointed here from Language Log.

I'm now up to reading about fanny packs. Well, I've known for years, thanks to British friends as well as TV shows imported to PBS, that fanny is an embarrassing word in British English, but I can't bring myself to call my useful bag a butt pack, as butt is an embarrassing word in American English. So, although I wear one every day, I am at a loss as to what to call it. I'm living in Germany now, where it's known as a Bauchtasche (stomach bag) or Gürteltasche (waist bag), but neither of these sounds like a pleasant translation for use in English. Any suggestions?

Stanford professor Bob Sutton has just written a book titled The No Asshole Rule. He's had a few problems in the US: Harvard Business School Press would only publish it if he changed the title (he wouldn't) and The New York Times won't use the word asshole even in a review.

Sutton found when he was interviewed by the BBC that they were happy for him to say "asshole", but preferred he didn't use "arsehole". His account here.

Now I want to know about 'bollocks' as in "Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols." I did my Wikipedia duty and found this: "Owing to its versatility, bollocks has been called the Swiss Army knife of andrological profanities, in that it is the most versatile word in the English language." I thought it was another word for arse, but this entry suggests, among other things, that it means testicles. Even more commonly, apparently, it can mean nonsense, or, at least, one court was once so convinced, thus allow the Pistols to promote their, uh, seminal album.

http://writinginthewild.com/

Ray, I think you were confusing bollocks and buttocks. Definitely not the same thing.

GY, I'm unclear as to whether you're asking about the pronunciation of ass meaning 'bottom' or ass meaning 'donkey'. The former didn't exist in Shakespeare's day [OED has it only from the 1800s], and the Great Vowel Shift had probably already happened in his environs by then (usually pegged at 14th-15th C). The [r] in arse could have been on its way to being lost by Shakespeare's time, though, making it a more likely pun on the animal name than an r-ful version would be. Hope that helps.

As far as I'm aware, in NZ English, "front bum" is extremely derogatory slang for a woman — but it doesn't refer to her genitals, but rather to her breasts. A pair of breasts are thought to resemble buttocks, but they're in front.

The word is not widely used since it is a little démodé (and highly offensive). It came back to prominence a few years ago though when a backbencher got drunk with a journalist and used the term liberally in describing the prime minister and her supposed lesbian cabal.

Lots of discussion on the 'r' in "arse" but nothing on the 'e'. I've always thought that the silent 'e' at the end adds a "not exactly onomatopoeic but similar" quality to the word, in that the (silent) letter can be thought of as representing an (invisible) fart. The word "arse" can almost be smelt.

I think the 'e' is to reflect the fact that it's pronounced [ars], not [arz].

sumrandom - in that case, front bums is a euphemism for c***s.

Front bottom seems to me to be quite recent - I thought it was a television invention for comedic purposes.

Jen - there's also a character in Shakespeare called Bottom - caused a lot of boyish mirth in my schooldays.

Ray - bollocks is definitely a word for testicles. It's meanings as "nonsense" and as an expression of contempt are secondary.

I love bollocks.
"He kicked me in the bollocks!" Ouch.
"What a load of bollocks" Talking shite.
"Bollocks!" Painful or irritated exclamation.

Reading through the comments there seem to be interesting variations even within AmE. 'Butt' is a neutral and useful word here, simply descriptive (and useful), and 'arse' simply doesn't exist, in any context. It'll just get you a blank look. (It took me a while to realize that Brits intended the 'r' in 'arse' to be pronounced (if only by modifying the initial vowel to distinguish it from 'ass'.)

Australians say arse. because that is what it is! Not a donkey!

"Arse" is an Anglo Saxon word meaning buttocks. "Ass" is a euphemism of "Arse" that probably came about from early, puritan settlers to North America.

To quote Father Jack Hackett of Father Ted fame (RIP Frank Kelly who's just passed away)
Feck! Arse! Girls!

Em, roight there Ted?

I used to have an album of Frank Sinatra Live at the Sands where he says someone "couldn't a bull in the fanny with a bag of rice" as a Brit threw me till an American friend of mine explained. The other I read was an American saying that " fanny" was an in inch or so different in US from UK I was a a couple of years older by then so I understood

mark said...

Front bottom seems to me to be quite recent - I thought it was a television invention for comedic purposes

Here in the north-west of England my female cousin, then a child, used to use "front bottom" to refer to her genitals back in the very early 1970s so it depends on what you mean by 'recent'. I strongly doubt that it's a television invention.

Just here to note that "can't be arsed" is definitely a phrase I heard growing up in the Boston area in the '80s/'90s, non-rhotic pronunciation and all. But then, Boston is a bit odd. ;)

I know I'm here 10 years later but arsey mean risky or brave. As in, 'That was a pretty arsey move'.

The word is, or was, ARSE (cognates in other Germanic languages all have an R).

In simple terms, rhoticity is whether or not the R is pronounced, it does not have a big impact on the vowel pronunciation. Rhoticity is probably NOT an issue here as it doesn't normally change the spelling (party, car etc are still spelled the same whether the R is pronounced or not).

Many seem confused with rhoticity and the bath/trap split. In parts of Britain (but not all) and various other British influenced areas, bath sounds more like "bahth" while in other parts of Britain, notably the north, and in America the A is short as in "bat". Everybody pronounces words like"trap" (and "bat") the same way.

However the bath/trap split isn't the case either as the R changes the pronunciation even if it isn't pronounced itself, and it IS pronounced in Northern Britain (which includes Scotland). Also, ASS is pronounced the same all over, it is in the Trap group not the Bath group.

So why do Americans say ASS and others say ARSE. There are 2 possible reasons :

1) American prudishness, ARSE is too earthy and direct, change it to a similar sounding word. This is supported by e.g. the use of "bathroom" instead of "toilet", the pixilating of any image of a nipple or worse, the old rule in films that husbands and wives had separate beds etc.

2) It has followed a similar path as "Cuss" and "Hoss" where the R has been dropped for reasons that are still debated.

As with any word, the Americans and the rest of world may use it as a verb, noun etc in different ways.

I'm a Londoner, and there "prat" certainly doesn't mean bottom/buttocks, but is a fairly vulgar word meaning vagina, a slightly ruder version of "fanny", or a slightly less ruder version of "twat".

At a slight tangent, I am curious to know how people surnamed "Butt" survive school in the United States. As the butt of many of a joke, I imagine. And is there any evidence that surnames like "Butt" and "Ramsbottom" are dying out, either because their unfortunate bearers find it difficult to find a spouse, and consequently tend to have fewer offspring, or because they change their moniker by deed poll?

No.

In Australia an "Arsey shot" is a lucky shot or a fluke !
That was all arse meaning there was no skill all luck !

Hi Lynne, on the topic of bums, my husband and I have just been discussing how to describe someone who doesn't work. He decided that my suggestion of "bum" was American and as a non-native BrE speaker I don't have an opinion but would very much like him to be wrong. What say you?
Anna