A great thing about being Facebook friends with linguists is that I get to benefit from their daily observations of English. Here's a recent observation from John Wells:
Something I've just heard on the telly about someone who nearly drowned: "If the fisherman hadn't've spotted him, he might not have survived."I keep hearing this grammatical construction in BrE, with extra "have" ('ve) as compared with the standard "...hadn't spotted...".But I have never come across any comment on, or discussion of, this usage.
In the comments, some people claim it's much used in the US, but it soon becomes clear that there's some confusion with a different construction than Wells was talking about. So, let's look at it.
I'm using the News on the Web corpus (because my usual go-to GloWbE corpus isn't co(-)operating in giving me the contractions). There I searched for "had n't have VERB" and got it with a range of verbs:

So, it's looking pretty British, but in Caroline McAfee's 'Characteristics of non-standard grammar in Scotland', she says "as in American English". (Bold = my emphasis, so it's clear which [more BrE] bits of the example we're talking about.)
In Scottish speech, as in American English, there is a sequence had – (ENCLITIC NEGATIVE PARTICLE) – have PAST PARTICIPLE. The identity of the second have, which appears as a weak or enclitic form, is problematic (as witness the writers who spell it of):
‘Ah wouldnae of came if Ah had of knew,’ he insisted (Helen W. Pryde, the First Book of the McFlannels, 1947: 24)
Adams (1948) suggested that it was a survival of English dialectal y- before past participles, reinterpreted as have via the latter’s weak form a. The occurrence of the form in Scotland and the USA is compatible with diffusion from Ulster. Fodor and Smith (1978) offer a purely synchronic analysis, seeing the first have as a modal and the second as the auxiliary of the perfect.
The British usage may have started in Scotland and now is more widespread. But what about that "as in American English"? Well, the historical picture in Google Ngrams gives us a different story from the contemporary NOW corpus. Here it is with had and been as the last verb in the search term:















![Battered metal sign, red with white lettering: G [crown graphic] R – POST NO BILLS](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgi_EiQJLoDLg3jqjh-98pfCVqRk_0tmXPk5LuyEsQoDrJBzW4Bw9w5XecSLWH-o76hhKpVYqZLy8zRxW9MslP8Yg5wR4aYCBu6Muyykiy8qo-uFG1o-oVI_R1YC77pxPo8ervm2ViFHDbSS0ybzSikS5baADHmYxePHDby-natzBkYdbnLV4AQ/w310-h400/Screenshot%202025-08-10%20at%2012.50.18.png)













